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Mortal Kombat X: correct information about what punishes what

Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
There's an exhausting amount of bad info floating around on some streams, status updates,
Threads, posts, commentary etc etc that is just absolutely wrong about what speed normal is required to punish "XYZ negative on block" move

This is very very very simple

You need a minimum 8f normal to punish -9 only.

And 9f reversal specials punish -9

This is also assuming there is no pushback and the frame data for XYZ move is correct

-----------------
What I'm tired of seeing/reading/hearing:

It takes extra frames to unblock so you need a 7f move to punish -9
---------------------

^This is extremely wrong and is based on tests done with incorrect listings for frame data not yet fixed but probably will be fixed soon

@Tom Brady @R.E.O. @CrimsonShadow @STORMS @GGA Dizzy @RiBBz22 @ConsoleCombat @THTB @General M2Dave
 
Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Noob
Wait so the latest hotfix added 1 frame to the startup of a lot of moves. Was this an actual change to the startup of some moves or is this how fast the moves were all along and the frame data numbers just got corrected? This might be the reason for this confusion.
 
TotteryManx

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
I've been seeing that a lot lately and I'm wondering if maybe that's why people aren't punishing certain things.
 
TotteryManx

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
Laguna Loire said:
Wait so the latest hotfix added 1 frame to the startup of a lot of moves. Was this an actual change to the startup of some moves or is this how fast the moves were all along and the frame data numbers just got corrected? This might be the reason for this confusion.
Click to expand...
Frame data was corrected.
 
Crimson Panther

Crimson Panther

Noob
It's difficult to really gauge what punishes what because of not just push back but incorrect frame data.

For example: Takeda's ex teleport is supposed to be 0 on block but it's actually full combo punishable.

So if a certain move is -9 on block depending on push back and/or incorrect frame data it very well may require a 7 frame move.

At this point I've stopped looking at the frame data in game and just playing to find out what's punishable or not and by what.

Until at least the frame data is 100% accurate there's little to no reason to use it as a reference.

But yes it takes 1 extra frame to punish with normals and 0 frames for specials. Brady said this day 1 and should be common knowledge by now.
 
Rickyraws

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
I feel like it's not even just the frame data that people are spreading misinformation for. The game is new, and there's a lot of things that may not be common knowledge. So if you're not 100% sure, it's less damaging if you don't say anything at all. Because we may not know ourselves to correct you right away.


On a stream for example (and this is not a blow up to anyone, just an instance that happened) but a lot of the viewers were confused as it was stated that Jax's Superman punch is an overhead and safe. Some people swore they've punished it. Some people swore they've ducked it. No one mentioned that there were two versions, one of which was high, the other overhead and punishable.

Fast forward to status update: Jax gets to do whatever he wants. He's so safe. Nerf him yada yada yada. There were hundreds of viewers on the stream, so I wonder to myself if the update and the stream were in any way related.
 
Sage Leviathan

Sage Leviathan

I'm platinum mad!
I appreciate NRS giving us the data, but it's a little irksome when most of it is right, a tiny bit is wrong, and we don't know what that tiny bit is.
 
DeathTouch

DeathTouch

Iceman
Pig Of The Hut said:
There's an exhausting amount of bad info floating around on some streams, status updates,
Threads, posts, commentary etc etc that is just absolutely wrong about what speed normal is required to punish "XYZ negative on block" move

This is very very very simple

You need a minimum 8f normal to punish -9 only.

And 9f reversal specials punish -9

This is also assuming there is no pushback and the frame data for XYZ move is correct

-----------------
What I'm tired of seeing/reading/hearing:

It takes extra frames to unblock so you need a 7f move to punish -9
---------------------

^This is extremely wrong and is based on tests done with incorrect listings for frame data not yet fixed but probably will be fixed soon

@Tom Brady @R.E.O. @CrimsonShadow @STORMS @GGA Dizzy @RiBBz22 @ConsoleCombat @THTB @General M2Dave
Click to expand...
@DeathTouch
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Pig Of The Hut said:
You need a minimum 8f normal to punish -9 only.

And 9f reversal specials punish -9

This is also assuming there is no pushback and the frame data for XYZ move is correct
Click to expand...
This actually isn't true -- according to Dizzy, the reason it seemed like there was a one frame difference between normal and special punishes is that the frame data was just wrong.

GGA Dizzy said:
Just to let everyone know, there is no magical unblocking frames and if you keep saying there is you may be subject to flagellation and being called a goober.

It appears there was an issue with how frame data was being calculated for the move list. For example, Johnnys standing 1 hit in 10 frames but was listed as 8f before the latest patch. It could punish moves that were -10. Now its listed as 9f startup, which would be correct. Nothing goofy going on, just move list corrections.

Dont spread bad information based on conjecture, please.
Click to expand...
So what we were thinking was "needing a 1-frame faster normal to punish than a special" was just the frame data for normals being off by a frame.

Now that it's being fixed, there should be no difference between punishing with a 9-frame normal and a 9-frame special reversal.
 
Last edited:
Dizzy

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
CrimsonShadow said:
This actually apparently isn't true -- according to Dizzy, the reason it seemed like there was a one frame difference between normal and special punishes is that the frame data was just wrong.



So what we were thinking was "needing a 1-frame faster normal to punish than a special" was just the frame data for normals being off by a frame.
Click to expand...
No, what Pig posted is true.

The issue before the latest move list update was a 2 frame disparity on the Startup listing for most normals and specials. Startup is 1 frame before impact.

Reversals appear to shave 1 frame of blockstun off the move that was blocked. The impact still occurs on the same frame, so the properties including the startup still act the exact same, but the end result is you can punish moves on block that a normal of the same startup cannot.

Edit - The move list on PC still has the old listings for startup. So if that is the only version you play on currently, please disregard the frame data information in the move list until the update rolls out to you guys too.
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
CrimsonShadow said:
This actually isn't true -- according to Dizzy, the reason it seemed like there was a one frame difference between normal and special punishes is that the frame data was just wrong.



So what we were thinking was "needing a 1-frame faster normal to punish than a special" was just the frame data for normals being off by a frame.

Now that it's being fixed, there should be no difference between punishing with a 9-frame normal and a 9-frame special reversal.
Click to expand...
Plz apologize
 
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