Discussion My tier list

[SaSSolino]

the Shinnok downplay is the least of this tier list problems...

 

[JustPressingButtons]

that's not the same. Mileena's not running in and doing f1 and breaking armor. ronin actually can't break armor with blade call anymore after the xl patch, I've never seen hell sparks break armor, and ex punch walk isn't breaking armor it's him just having more armor. none of that is the same as Jason. Jason just activates a buff and armor is no longer an option for the next few seconds. he doesn't have to restrict himself to a specific 2 hitting move where as Jason can just do b1 and blow it up.

Or D1, or literally any attack he wants.

 

[Eldriken]

Uh well let's see.. Mileena's F1 for example, Ronin Takeda's Sword Call, Hell Sparks (if timed right) and basically anything Goro does with Punchwalk. Now, does that "satiate" you?

There are a select few characters who can break armor via a single string/move. Most other characters only have the option of trying to armor through their opponent's armored move on a read.

It's not readily available for a pretty good portion of the cast.

Jason can just hit d1 in the corner all day after he knocks you down if he has Punishment active. It's 6f and only -2. It would be foolish to try and use armor when he's got it active.

 

[SoV N3RO]

I love seeing that all the characters I used to believe were the worst in the game are all high/top tiers.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

How does Kenshi control space better than Shinnok? Kenjutsu's push is -40 on whiff, -12 on block, doesn't anti air anywhere near as well and can't be MB'd to be + on block and combo on hit.

Kenjutsu push has massive pushback, so I doubt that anyone consistently punishes him. As for the meter thing, while it is nice that shinnok has the option, most people don't realize that shinnok HAS to Mb sparks to be safe and he really stuggles to build meter. He gets no offense when they are mbed in the neutral because of the pushback and that fact that shinnok's normals have no range. Regardless, I said that their zoning is comparable and that Kenshi's offense is better, which counts for more than zoning.

 

[OnlineSkunk]

 

[JustPressingButtons]

@cR WoundCowboy I do ask, what's your reason that Bo Rai Cho isn't in the worst in the game category? He has awful mobility, long start up frames on his strings, bad pokes, and short limbs. A recipe for completely awful neutral. All he really has going for him is his fart pressure, invincibility in Drunken Master, and the corner game if he even gets you there. He feels more limited than Goro Kitana and Jason, as you have listed being worse.

 

[Tweedy]

I'm gonna go in about Jason for a minute.

Just look at his toolset. 6 frame D1 that's -2 on block, top tier walk speed, command grabs that have absolutely stupid recovery.

To me Jason is the most ridiculous placement on this list, not Shinnok. I mean Cowboy's reasoning is his run speed, which doesn't really matter because his B1 goes almost half screen in 13 frames anyways, and he has great walk speed. Also, I think he mentioned him getting punished for trying tick throws? Out of every tick throw in the game, his are the hardest to punish. If you're not looking for his +9 overhead, his relatively safe low, or his staggers that can get super cheap with his D1, maybe you could punish his tick throws. With DD3 active, the risk/reward is never bad. Maybe with Relentless he has poor risk/reward. Relentless is a bill anyways, in comparison to Unstoppable.

DD3 in Unstoppable lol. This move gives him easy mode armor breaking and really good meterless damage. You don't even have to use meter to activate it like Sonic does. There are meterless set ups out there using 32.

Slasher is super dumb too. Who has a better corner game? In the corner he has relatively safe 50/50s, huge meterless damage, meterless combos that he can end in DD4. DD4 makes it so they have to guess 3 times before your armor runs out. Since you have to spend 0 meter to do anything with this variation(or Unstoppable for the most part), you can spend your meter on his safe armor after they block a 50/50. He also retains the 6 frame D1 that's -2. Slasher probably isn't as good as Unstoppable, since he does have to work a little to get to the corner, and the frames on his B1 string are hella minus.

A D tier in general on this game is super whack, even with the context presented, especially since your list contains a potential S tier character lmao.

Tbh Cowboy's run speed response is better than what you mostly see. Most people just say "oh bro it's Jason cmon". A character being bad before, is irrelevant. Jason is a god now, mother is proud.

Our community is just too small. No one who gets hit by a proper DD3 set up, or even just knows about it, is going to act like Jason is any less than A tier, using this context.

Edit: Here's Sonic's video if anyone missed it. Skip to about 29 minutes.

 

[Tweedy]

A lot of people are saying troll post, but I don't see a whole lot of people actually willing to fight it on its own merit.

Why wouldn't Kitana be one of the dirt worst in the game? Her game essentially consists of tossing fans which isn't going to lead to much damage without jumping, and even then, the fireballs don't do much to set up her offense, which consists of...nothing, really. Throws and sweep? Cool...

She has a decent armored reversal and a pretty good X-Ray, but it doesn't seem like she has much to offer besides that beyond some decent damage (and that's all it is now, it's completely average) and mildly irritating air mobility. I would even submit her actual mid range tools aren't even that great; her run is average and while her walkspeed is good, her tools to set up jumps are her f1 string and d1, which will probably hit no one and are outranged by the majority of the cast who steamroll that with actually good strings. I don't get it.

Fast multi hitting armor, some of the best meterless damage in the game, great walk speed, a 5 frame jump in, the fans give her quite a bit of neutral control vs quite a bit of characters.

None of that matters right, because no 50/50 bro. If Kitana had a 100% correct match up chart, it would definitely not reflect a D tier character lmao. I'm sure we all know that, so why is she being placed in D tier?

 

[Eldriken]

It could be argued that Kitana was D-tier when the game first came out. Now? Not even close.

 

[Tinkerbell]

I know everyone says their main should be lower on a tier list, but I'm not sure I agree with Sonya being top 5. But I'm not very good and I never use Demo so maybe... I would think more people would play her if that was the case though.

 

[Skylight1]

I'm gonna go in about Jason for a minute.

Just look at his toolset. 6 frame D1 that's -2 on block, top tier walk speed, command grabs that have absolutely stupid recovery.

To me Jason is the most ridiculous placement on this list, not Shinnok. I mean Cowboy's reasoning is his run speed, which doesn't really matter because his B1 goes almost half screen in 13 frames anyways, and he has great walk speed. Also, I think he mentioned him getting punished for trying tick throws? Out of every tick throw in the game, his are the hardest to punish. If you're not looking for his +9 overhead, his relatively safe low, or his staggers that can get super cheap with his D1, maybe you could punish his tick throws. With DD3 active, the risk/reward is never bad. Maybe with Relentless he has poor risk/reward. Relentless is a bill anyways, in comparison to Unstoppable.

DD3 in Unstoppable lol. This move gives him easy mode armor breaking and really good meterless damage. You don't even have to use meter to activate it like Sonic does. There are meterless set ups out there using 32.

Slasher is super dumb too. Who has a better corner game? In the corner he has relatively safe 50/50s, huge meterless damage, meterless combos that he can end in DD4. DD4 makes it so they have to guess 3 times before your armor runs out. Since you have to spend 0 meter to do anything with this variation(or Unstoppable for the most part), you can spend your meter on his safe armor after they block a 50/50. He also retains the 6 frame D1 that's -2. Slasher probably isn't as good as Unstoppable, since he does have to work a little to get to the corner, and the frames on his B1 string are hella minus.

A D tier in general on this game is super whack, even with the context presented, especially since your list contains a potential S tier character lmao.

Tbh Cowboy's run speed response is better than what you mostly see. Most people just say "oh bro it's Jason cmon". A character being bad before, is irrelevant. Jason is a god now, mother is proud.

Our community is just too small. No one who gets hit by a proper DD3 set up, or even just knows about it, is going to act like Jason is any less than A tier, using this context.

Edit: Here's Sonic's video if anyone missed it. Skip to about 29 minutes.

Sonic could do wonders with any character he wants, that's STILL not enough to make him top tier or A. The highest I see him is B-/C+, nothing more nothing less.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

^^^^^^^^^WTF^^^^^^


Ok maybe this is a troll because last time I checked

Shinnok
guesses right for a bar he becomes plus
His space control isn't -45
Very fast mid fireball
Better teleport
Non meter vortex
6f/7f low punisher that makes everything easy to punish
OH in all variations
Way better space control
Way better normals
Legit pressure that he can continue a guessing game in his favor for a bar
Insane back dash
Second fastest run I believe in the game
Air normals that all jail if I'm not mistaken
7f or 8f (I forgot) mid d2?
Need I continue ?

 

[dennycascade]

Cage is a really good character but I don't see why he is this batshit broken pos that most of you rave about. He has to have stamina to be effective, which he may not have because he is always trying to get in. He can only start his mixups when he gets in and even then, most characters have good options out of his pressure.

The thing is, cage isn't always struggling to get in like you say. He actually zones out half the cast (you probably haven't experienced this as a bone shaper main), he has a great walk back to make his opponents come to him, and he can travel full screen in the blink of an eye with EX shadowkick (or f3 lol). That's what makes him insane on top of his broke rushdown game. He can choose to play footsies or zone sometimes, and pressure when he wants to. He's an all around amazing character that really lacks nothing.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Still waiting for that reason why Kitana is the lowest of tiers

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

I'm gonna go in about Jason for a minute.

Just look at his toolset. 6 frame D1 that's -2 on block, top tier walk speed, command grabs that have absolutely stupid recovery.

To me Jason is the most ridiculous placement on this list, not Shinnok. I mean Cowboy's reasoning is his run speed, which doesn't really matter because his B1 goes almost half screen in 13 frames anyways, and he has great walk speed. Also, I think he mentioned him getting punished for trying tick throws? Out of every tick throw in the game, his are the hardest to punish. If you're not looking for his +9 overhead, his relatively safe low, or his staggers that can get super cheap with his D1, maybe you could punish his tick throws. With DD3 active, the risk/reward is never bad. Maybe with Relentless he has poor risk/reward. Relentless is a bill anyways, in comparison to Unstoppable.

DD3 in Unstoppable lol. This move gives him easy mode armor breaking and really good meterless damage. You don't even have to use meter to activate it like Sonic does. There are meterless set ups out there using 32.

Slasher is super dumb too. Who has a better corner game? In the corner he has relatively safe 50/50s, huge meterless damage, meterless combos that he can end in DD4. DD4 makes it so they have to guess 3 times before your armor runs out. Since you have to spend 0 meter to do anything with this variation(or Unstoppable for the most part), you can spend your meter on his safe armor after they block a 50/50. He also retains the 6 frame D1 that's -2. Slasher probably isn't as good as Unstoppable, since he does have to work a little to get to the corner, and the frames on his B1 string are hella minus.

A D tier in general on this game is super whack, even with the context presented, especially since your list contains a potential S tier character lmao.

Tbh Cowboy's run speed response is better than what you mostly see. Most people just say "oh bro it's Jason cmon". A character being bad before, is irrelevant. Jason is a god now, mother is proud.

Our community is just too small. No one who gets hit by a proper DD3 set up, or even just knows about it, is going to act like Jason is any less than A tier, using this context.

Edit: Here's Sonic's video if anyone missed it. Skip to about 29 minutes.

Every character has good ranged normals, not to mention the fact that other characters have superior movement and can avoid his B1 easier than you might think. A bunch of characters can just go under it with a poke. While I think that unstoppable is probably good in some MUs (Tremor and Goro in particular) losing that teleport makes his ability to get in even worse. His tick throws are also not hard to blow up. Every character in the game can punish him on a read, with either a njp or armor. Either way, Jason does less damage than most characters so it is not a good guess for him.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

In all seriousness though the only list worse than this is schindlers list

 

[M.D.]

The thing is, cage isn't always struggling to get in like you say. He actually zones out half the cast (you probably haven't experienced this as a bone shaper main), he has a great walk back to make his opponents come to him, and he can travel full screen in the blink of an eye with EX shadowkick (or f3 lol). That's what makes him insane on top of his broke rushdown game. He can choose to play footsies or zone sometimes, and pressure when he wants to. He's an all around amazing character that really lacks nothing.

Nobody who actually plays A-list would say something like this.
You'll get vaporized in an instant.
If you play him then you're probably playing against opponents with the skill level of the training dummy to make you say such atrocious things.

 

[Red Reaper]

I think Lao was overrated tbh. But yeah good point.

In this kommunity, every top tier is overrated...

You give people an excuse or something they kan komplain about, and they push it way beyond its limit.

 

[Eldriken]

^^^^^^^^^WTF^^^^^^


Ok maybe this is a troll because last time I checked

Shinnok
guesses right for a bar he becomes plus
His space control isn't -45
Very fast mid fireball
Better teleport
Non meter vortex
6f/7f low punisher that makes everything easy to punish
OH in all variations
Way better space control
Way better normals
Legit pressure that he can continue a guessing game in his favor for a bar
Insane back dash
Second fastest run I believe in the game
Air normals that all jail if I'm not mistaken
7f or 8f (I forgot) mid d2?
Need I continue ?

His d2 is 7f I believe, but it is no longer a mid. It got changed to a high in the last patch if memory serves.

 

[Red Reaper]

I don't think so. Almost every character in this game has a long ranged footsie tool, so what matters is the reward they get when it hits or is blocked. I can't think of a character with bad defense and good offense.

As Dangster Morgan said, Quan Chi....

But I think we have different definitions for "defense" and "offense"....

Oh, and I'm not too far from you guys now. I'm in the Berkeley / El Cerrito area!

 

[Dankster Morgan]

In this kommunity, every top tier is overrated...

You give people an excuse or something they kan komplain about, and they push it way beyond its limit.

Too true.

 

[Tweedy]

Every character has good ranged normals, not to mention the fact that other characters have superior movement and can avoid his B1 easier than you might think. A bunch of characters can just go under it with a poke. While I think that unstoppable is probably good in some MUs (Tremor and Goro in particular) losing that teleport makes his ability to get in even worse. His tick throws are also not hard to blow up. Every character in the game can punish him on a read, with either a njp or armor. Either way, Jason does less damage than most characters so it is not a good guess for him.

Watch Sonic's video please.

Relentless does less damage, not Unstoppable.

 

[Cossner]

In all seriousness though the only list worse than this is schindlers list

Dink hates jews confirmed.

 

[ArmedCalf]

^^^^^^^^^WTF^^^^^^


Ok maybe this is a troll because last time I checked

Shinnok
guesses right for a bar he becomes plus
His space control isn't -45
Very fast mid fireball
Better teleport
Non meter vortex
6f/7f low punisher that makes everything easy to punish
OH in all variations
Way better space control
Way better normals
Legit pressure that he can continue a guessing game in his favor for a bar
Insane back dash
Second fastest run I believe in the game
Air normals that all jail if I'm not mistaken
7f or 8f (I forgot) mid d2?
Need I continue ?

I'll be going over Shinnok's pros and cons in my upcoming video, stay tuned.