Match-up Discussion My Black Adam Matchup Chart ( Version 1.07 )

[Qwark28]

Let's just do some maths here.

BG's bola cancel->forward dash is about 30 frames total to the completion of the dash. This is tested b/c I was trying out other vortex options w/ her, and she can't be Lex charged after hit B2D3->bolacancel->forward dash. I think 21 bolacancel forward dash worked too, but I'd have to test it again to say it with certainty.

Backdash is a little slower, but she's moving back instead of forward, so hey that's more frames of travel.

Far boot stomp is 17 frames startup, plus travel time. Jumping diagonal is 4 frames start up. So you're already at 21 at least. How good's your reaction time?

Oh yeah:

So, let's give your reaction time at 14f. That's 35 frames, not including travel time (which isn't something they give data for).

So I just don't buy your Instant Air divekick blowing up dash canceled bolas unless you're doing it in anticipation or already jumping... but oh yeah:

I'm done here. FYI: if you put up a MU chart and specifically ask for detailed input, don't be dismissive of what other people have to say. People are GOING to disagree with you. That's the point of the thing.

I'm not coming at this from the angle "hurr durr BA sucks" obviously he's really great. I just don't think BG has a disadvatage in this fight and other BG's don't think so either.

I did not mistake your post at all. You were saying BA might not win this matchup and perhaps its even, I also believe it could very well be even. The reason I didn't bother further is because you listed online flowchart adams who keep doing one option even when you counter it consistently and bring these into determining a matchup

Online
Low lvl opponents
Habits
And told me that I can't go by blockstrings and damage when these are the exact strengths of Adam in this matchup. So basically telling me I can't bring my character's strengths to determine this MU number?

The only way bola and cancel are 30f is if bola is 15f and you cancel it right to the frame.

Also, BA will of course be looking for bolas just like BG will be looking for lightning. There is no such thing as a matchup number where both characters aren't looking to punish something.

I didn't doubt you as a player or doubt your intelligence, I'm saying that you didn't come off as knowing how to discuss matchups.

edit: IAD has barely any travelling time and BA can just black magic instead but it's an inferior option.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Qwark28, for WW these are my reasons why I have it at 5 5:
*It is a huge positioning battle and whoever keeps and maintains the position they want will be in favor of winning the match
*BA definitely outzones her for sure, but she has counters to his lighting bolt so it is definitely an even playing field in that perspective
*She has to come in and his trait will always be a factor and give him extra damage.
*As far as meter goes, she doesn't really need meter most of the time unless she is in shield stance or is utilizing her ex tiara for a combo/ for push blocking and clashing, so usually she'll have the meter lead, but knowing BA, this isn't the biggest issue because he builds meter swiftly.
*Both have wakeups that must be respected/ both can be blown up as well with things such as meter burn f3 and etc.
*The footsie game is interesting because they both have normal that have formidable range, so spacing will be huge in determining who will land their normal first.
*His divekick is always a factor, but since she has that demigoddess, she can counter it.
*Her pressure is definitely to be feared, but since BA usually always has meter, he has the choice of push blocking her frame traps to get away.
*Both have solid d2s that can be utilized
Heck this MU definitely is even haha, I probably missed some stuff but you get the gist of what i'm saying.

As for cyborg really all it takes is being patient, walking him to the corner, and blowing up his air fb correctly with properly timed ex divekicks.

 

[Qwark28]

Qwark28, for WW these are my reasons why I have it at 5 5:
*It is a huge positioning battle and whoever keeps and maintains the position they want will be in favor of winning the match
*BA definitely outzones her for sure, but she has counters to his lighting bolt so it is definitely an even playing field in that perspective
*She has to come in and his trait will always be a factor and give him extra damage.
*As far as meter goes, she doesn't really need meter most of the time unless she is in shield stance or is utilizing her ex tiara for a combo/ for push blocking and clashing, so usually she'll have the meter lead, but knowing BA, this isn't the biggest issue because he builds meter swiftly.
*Both have wakeups that must be respected/ both can be blown up as well with things such as meter burn f3 and etc.
*The footsie game is interesting because they both have normal that have formidable range, so spacing will be huge in determining who will land their normal first.
*His divekick is always a factor, but since she has that demigoddess, she can counter it.
*Her pressure is definitely to be feared, but since BA usually always has meter, he has the choice of push blocking her frame traps to get away.
*Both have solid d2s that can be utilized
Heck this MU definitely is even haha, I probably missed some stuff but you get the gist of what i'm saying.

As for cyborg really all it takes is being patient, walking him to the corner, and blowing up his air fb correctly with properly timed ex divekicks.

BA does not outzone her because she has air demigodess and an air dash, you cant zone chars with airdashes.

she only has to come to you if she doesnt have the lifelead

BA doesn't have a solid d2

when neutral her b1 is simply sickening, who the fuck gives a character that kinda normal

all these have been formulated by fighting foxy over a few months.

noone in this game corners cyborg btw, he can simply air hook the other way and throw a fire ball or ex fireball as hes landing.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Rico also thinks this character is fine.

I think he beats her 6 4

Better air normals, damage, counterzoning and zoning.

what do you think?

He wins. No question.

Its her worst MU at 4-6 and I think its her only bad mu

 

[Qwark28]

He wins. No question.

Its her worst MU at 4-6 and I think its her only bad mu

shes that good? i thought she had trouble with a couple of chars, didnt even have her in my top 10 due to most top 10 contestants having almost no bad MUs

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

This is a MU thread. We discuss matchups, not just say "top 2-3 mixups" without any explanations or evidence.

Please stop trying to flame me.

I had MU #s

 

[xKhaoTik]

shes that good? i thought she had trouble with a couple of chars, didnt even have her in my top 10 due to most top 10 contestants having almost no bad MUs

Na all frost downplayers think she sucks and have trouble with everyone.

Me, ribbz and a few others know how good she is. She goes 5-5 with the top 5 (except Adam) and probably beats aqua imo. Shes good man lol.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

BA does not outzone her because she has air demigodess and an air dash, you cant zone chars with airdashes.

she only has to come to you if she doesnt have the lifelead

BA doesn't have a solid d2

when neutral her b1 is simply sickening, who the fuck gives a character that kinda normal

all these have been formulated by fighting foxy over a few months.

noone in this game corners cyborg btw, he can simply air hook the other way and throw a fire ball or ex fireball as hes landing.

yeah you can corner cyborg, I have played vs cyborgs multiple times, if you can't find ways to corner him and counter his grapple, you doing something wrong lol. Also she isn't going to be able to avoid his zoning all the time, that'd be impossible. Also his d2 is actually good, it is 7 frames LMAO, I hit that anytime I can, have you been watching rico and other BA players? you got to utilize that or your doing something wrong. Also her demigoddess isn't safe on block so she has to make a read on it, can't just throw it out. And his trait will be out a lot of times, so WW will be walking into a lot since she has to rush him down. I'm sorry, but just you playing foxy doesn't mean it is 6 4 her lol, he has to play more than just your BA for that to even be true because we got godspeed, me, rico, foreverking, dragongod, and so many other top BA's here.

 

[Espio]

Agree on Hawkgirl losing 4-6 to Black Adam.

 

[187x]

hmmm

 

[Qwark28]

yeah you can corner cyborg, I have played vs cyborgs multiple times, if you can't find ways to corner him and counter his grapple, you doing something wrong lol. Also she isn't going to be able to avoid his zoning all the time, that'd be impossible. Also his d2 is actually good, it is 7 frames LMAO, I hit that anytime I can, have you been watching rico and other BA players? you got to utilize that or your doing something wrong. Also her demigoddess isn't safe on block so she has to make a read on it, can't just throw it out. And his trait will be out a lot of times, so WW will be walking into a lot since she has to rush him down. I'm sorry, but just you playing foxy doesn't mean it is 6 4 her lol, he has to play more than just your BA for that to even be true because we got godspeed, me, rico, foreverking, dragongod, and so many other top BA's here.

His D2 still has a stubby hitbox and I trust you've seen WWs air normals. I've played this matchup for 2-3 months with foxy, I know what I'm talking about.

Demigoddess IS safe on block, when done instantly and avoids every trait orb on block. After it she's about -4 and can react to everything you do. This is basic knowledge when fighting F0xy. My local WW player who won the whole European tournament on launch, Nivek, also uses her and is currently the next best WW i've ever seen and played and does the exact same things and has been doing so since early on in the game's life. I've been playing this MU since the beginning both online and offline.

The only truly high lvl BA you just listed with experience vs WW is Rico and Smarrgasm ( also top ). Someone picking up BA and someone maining him from day 1 is a huge difference. Rico has played against F0xy a lot, ask him what he thinks of the matchup. Me , Smarrgasm and Rico are the only ones who have extended experience in this MU with the best WW, I also have offline.

Good point with Cyborg but it's not that easy to corner him, granted you will at some point but it's not as easy when he eliminates your entire game with iagb but I don't think he can do that without meter as he's getting down from the grapple. Otherwise I would've simply said MB divekick/lightning to punish his landing and it'd be 6-4 BA.

A F0xy Grampa @NYC jailhouse AK Smarrgasm

 

[Smarrgasm]

Refer to my chart for my numbers and thoughts.

WW is the only MU i think he loses at this moment in time. Other possible hard ones include Cyborg, Lantern, and Batman mainly.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

Poor Killer Frost, she gets owned by Black Adam so hard she's not even on the list.

 

[Qwark28]

Poor Killer Frost, she gets owned by Black Adam so hard she's not even on the list.

I thought I forgot her lol

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

His D2 still has a stubby hitbox and I trust you've seen WWs air normals. I've played this matchup for 2-3 months with foxy, I know what I'm talking about.

Demigoddess IS safe on block, when done instantly and avoids every trait orb on block. After it she's about -4 and can react to everything you do. This is basic knowledge when fighting F0xy. My local WW player who won the whole European tournament on launch, Nivek, also uses her and is currently the next best WW i've ever seen and played and does the exact same things and has been doing so since early on in the game's life. I've been playing this MU since the beginning both online and offline.

The only truly high lvl BA you just listed with experience vs WW is Rico and Smarrgasm ( also top ). Someone picking up BA and someone maining him from day 1 is a huge difference. Rico has played against F0xy a lot, ask him what he thinks of the matchup. Me , Smarrgasm and Rico are the only ones who have extended experience in this MU with the best WW, I also have offline.

Good point with Cyborg but it's not that easy to corner him, granted you will at some point but it's not as easy when he eliminates your entire game with iagb but I don't think he can do that without meter as he's getting down from the grapple. Otherwise I would've simply said MB divekick/lightning to punish his landing and it'd be 6-4 BA.

A F0xy Grampa @NYC jailhouse AK Smarrgasm

cyborg is 5 5, and I have no problem proving it either. Actually I play WW so I know her quite well. Like I said, it is going to take more than what you say to get me (and others) to think he loses that matchup. He doesn't lose to anyone, the quality and effectiveness of his tools are the main reason for this. Like I said, BA is usually going to have a lead in a match, which forces WW to come in and that is where BA is at his best when he can force the opponent to push the issue and he can capitalize of their mistakes. Also his d2 is good, you are definitely using it incorrectly lol, I can show you footage where I landed it successfully 100 percent of the time in a tournament (Wednesday night fights) and I can show you other cases where BA players have utilized it, if you aren't using that as a counter to jump ins, you are missing out big time. Also I'm not in the mood to argue with foxy, i'll talk to smarrgasm and jailhouse though.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Refer to my chart for my numbers and thoughts.

WW is the only MU i think he loses at this moment in time. Other possible hard ones include Cyborg, Lantern, and Batman mainly.

GL, 5 5 for sure, have played that probably more than anyone. Cyborg 5 5 (already explained). I think what we saw from rico at SJ vs king shows how even that matchup is. Also I really dnt think WW beats BA, there are so many things he can do in all his matchups even if a character shuts down one of his tools effectively.

 

[Qwark28]

cyborg is 5 5, and I have no problem proving it either. Actually I play WW so I know her quite well. Like I said, it is going to take more than what you say to get me (and others) to think he loses that matchup. He doesn't lose to anyone, the quality and effectiveness of his tools are the main reason for this. Like I said, BA is usually going to have a lead in a match, which forces WW to come in and that is where BA is at his best when he can force the opponent to push the issue and he can capitalize of their mistakes. Also his d2 is good, you are definitely using it incorrectly lol, I can show you footage where I landed it successfully 100 percent of the time in a tournament (Wednesday night fights) and I can show you other cases where BA players have utilized it, if you aren't using that as a counter to jump ins, you are missing out big time. Also I'm not in the mood to argue with foxy, i'll talk to smarrgasm and jailhouse though.

If you don't wanna argue with the best WW player who everyone learned from then what's the point of continuing this arguement? He knows WW best. You have to realise that you're coming off as playing both WW and BA but for one month while a couple BA players have been playing the matchup vs the best WW for 3 months so much that we could pick up WW and play at a decent lvl without accounting skill lol. We all know what WW and our own main which we've been playing 4 months can do...

Re-read my post. I said that his D2 usefulness is matchup specific, not useless. BA will not have the lifelead unless he fights for it, he can't zone her and he can't be reckless with his trait when WW can do demigoddess. Just the fact that you're randomly throwing out trait in hopes of hitting her and gaining a lead means you're not using it for pressure and are losing all your unblockable setups and mixups. WW also has a better neutral game with B1 and B2 which are both comboable, frametraps for days and a safe way to get in and keep the lead with shield stance. This is not 5-5

Since you're not willing to change your mind all I have to say is play F0xy. He's the best WW and has played this matchup hella. He himself had told me BA now loses when he discovered the demigoddess tech. He has also played rico, best black adam vs best wonderwoman, can't get better than that.

Explain to me the cyborg matchup btw with a paragraph, I'm interested in how it goes.

 

[Big Pampering]

Also I'm not in the mood to argue with foxy, i'll talk to smarrgasm and jailhouse though.

haha

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

If you don't wanna argue with the best WW player who everyone learned from then what's the point of continuing this arguement? He knows WW best. You have to realise that you're coming off as playing both WW and BA but for one month while a couple BA players have been playing the matchup vs the best WW for 3 months so much that we could pick up WW and play at a decent lvl without accounting skill lol. We all know what WW and our own main which we've been playing 4 months can do...

Re-read my post. I said that his D2 usefulness is matchup specific, not useless. BA will not have the lifelead unless he fights for it, he can't zone her and he can't be reckless with his trait when WW can do demigoddess. Just the fact that you're randomly throwing out trait in hopes of hitting her and gaining a lead means you're not using it for pressure and are losing all your unblockable setups and mixups. WW also has a better neutral game with B1 and B2 which are both comboable, frametraps for days and a safe way to get in and keep the lead with shield stance. This is not 5-5

Since you're not willing to change your mind all I have to say is play F0xy. He's the best WW and has played this matchup hella. He himself had told me BA now loses when he discovered the demigoddess tech. He has also played rico, best black adam vs best wonderwoman, can't get better than that.

the trait isn't meant just to be thrown out LMAO, that sounds very ridiculous the way you just said that. It is used the same way vs multiple characters with good rushdown, to give BA free damage (also I didn't say BA always had to use the trait when she came in, so basically you just assumed that). Also I'm not interested in online play results......, not solid enough data because lag is involved and offline is a whole different thing and everyone knows that. I'd be interested offline because lag plays no factor and I won't have to worry about messing up on punishes and what not. BA can definitely zone her, but you are taking it in the sense that he'll just mindlessly throw out lighting and not time anything. Her demigoddess isn't safe on block and is horrid if it whiffs, so like I said, she'll be making a read when she uses it on him. Also I dnt need to play a character for as long as others to know what they are doing lmao, I know you saw me in mk9 and I could pick characters quicker than pretty much anyone nd have my matchups down and know what I was doing.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

haha

i'm serious , getting through to him is like trying to teach a baby calculus, it aint going to work lol. Last time I was talking to him, he was blabbering about the U.S. scene and how overrated superman is and etc., when I told others, they found it quite hilarious he'd say things like that.

 

[Qwark28]

the trait isn't meant just to be thrown out LMAO, that sounds very ridiculous the way you just said that. It is used the same way vs multiple characters with good rushdown, to give BA free damage (also I didn't say BA always had to use the trait when she came in, so basically you just assumed that). Also I'm not interested in online play results......, not solid enough data because lag is involved and offline is a whole different thing and everyone knows that. I'd be interested offline because lag plays no factor and I won't have to worry about messing up on punishes and what not. BA can definitely zone her, but you are taking it in the sense that he'll just mindlessly throw out lighting and not time anything. Her demigoddess isn't safe on block and is horrid if it whiffs, so like I said, she'll be making a read when she uses it on him. Also I dnt need to play a character for as long as others to know what they are doing lmao, I know you saw me in mk9 and I could pick characters quicker than pretty much anyone nd have my matchups down and know what I was doing.

I did not say BA would randomly throw out lightning. You said you'd chip her with trait. How will you meaningfully chip her without making her run into it other than hitting her with B2?

Haven't you read anything I posted? I said I have both online and offline MU xp, I also said demigoddess is safe when performed correctly this is one thing foxy does and I don't think you know about this.

You did pick up characters fast in MK9. That doesn't mean you're the only one who understands them, we have more experience under our belt and know how BA works and what he can and can't do since we found all of his tech and properties. I think you're not the only one who knows what's up with BA if that what you're implying.

We're done here, you're obviously not going to rationally discuss this considering you're not reading my posts or reading them correctly and assuming things. I'm gonna discuss this with foxy when he gets on. Also, the same thing you just said about him can be said for you.

A F0xy Grampa

 

[Big Pampering]

i'm serious , getting through to him is like trying to teach a baby calculus, it aint going to work lol. Last time I was talking to him, he was blabbering about the U.S. scene and how overrated superman is and etc., when I told others, they found it quite hilarious he'd say things like that.

I know what you mean. When I first picked up mk I used to argue about kung lao with foxy a lot on the forums. I have to say he was right about most things about kung lao and I learned a lot from him just from reading his forum posts. The guy is actually pretty similar to you in the way he is hardheaded but a goodplayer.

 

[RenegadeVA]

The only way bola and cancel are 30f is if bola is 15f and you cancel it right to the frame.

Also, BA will of course be looking for bolas just like BG will be looking for lightning. There is no such thing as a matchup number where both characters aren't looking to punish something.

I didn't doubt you as a player or doubt your intelligence, I'm saying that you didn't come off as knowing how to discuss matchups.

edit: IAD has barely any travelling time and BA can just black magic instead but it's an inferior option.

I wasn't gonna post anymore, but I saw this video.

http://www.twitch.tv/kombatnetwork/b/447412833

2h30minutes in is Rico vs Sonic Fawkes.

Rico does lightning, fairly often. Gets smoke bombed out of it and out of black magic.

Fawkes throws projectiles, often. Never gets Instant dive kicked.

Rico wins.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I know what you mean. When I first picked up mk I used to argue about kung lao with foxy a lot on the forums. I have to say he was right about most things about kung lao and I learned a lot from him just from reading his forum posts. The guy is actually pretty similar to you in the way he is hardheaded but a goodplayer.

haha, it works . My opinion about things doesn't change easily, I am quite the debater. But if i'm proven wrong, I have no issue admitting it (did it a few times in mk9, no shame).

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Lowest point demigodess is safe MIT. Think of it like BA dive kick.
If BA blocks it he has a similar situation to the reptile dead zone in mk9, you can react to a dash, his normals are shorter than hers and can't reach her after a blocked iaDG, he can't jump and she can just demigodess again.

Just requires a bit of execution is all.