Good shit at NEC Kevin.
Ain't no goddamn "could be" about it, Ricky.
Be aware that if you main Killer Frost, you'll sometimes lose simply because your random slides didn't hit. Cool, reliable character.
Oh yeah, always down to play offline since online in this game is pretty much a mess. I don't hate jump back and I am a Killer Frost player, not sure the point of that generalization. I agree if anyone wins the MU that HG definitely does. This is nothing new, I have been saying this since I went to UFGT in 2013 after the game launched. To me, KF's most annoying MUs are probably Cyborg and MMH. I understand that HG's air control is a huge asset in the MU, but I think KF wins this MU up close and in the oki game. I agree her zoning is useless, but that is not hurting Frost much because at full screen both characters have basically zero to fear from one another... and it is the Frost player's job to understand how to scout out the Hawkgirl player's movement and get in/space her out/whiff punish etc....much in the same way that a rushdown character does against a zoner. KF's defensive options are not to be disregarded in this MU. Many of HG's typically followups force her to respect a parry when if landed leads to roughly 40% life and an unfavorable oki scenario IMO.If you ever wanna play this offline, please let me know.
We've discussed this before, the reasoning for it being even is Killer Frost's comeback factor, parry etc unless there's some groundbreaking new tech/reason you've discovered, I do not see it, but I'm open to listening.
Either way, this reasoning is pretty weak when you consider that Hawkgirl's core design is an inherent counter to Killer Frost's design. Hawkgirl does not care about your zoning, has generally superior normals, great air control on the ground and her options for post blocked slide are ridiculously simple that it should be criminal. Your character lacks air control and I have one of the most mobile characters in the game, who Killer Frost cannot contain in any notable way that would make it come off as closer to even.
If Killer Frost players hate jump back, they should definitely hate "lol I'm just gonna fly away and chuck maces, see you in Spring time Felicia"
Oh you....almost feel sorry for ya.
Against Wonder Woman, MBF3 is an excellent anti air against a constantly J3ing player. Unless spaced out a little aways, it will be anti aired or at the very least in my experience, trip guarded. It's still a recommended approach with WW because you can also bait it out/demigodess at a height that may not be punishable. Plus j3 is just good in general. When you say dash over our zoning, you mean air dash, right? An air dash into demigodess won't catch a Frost throwing daggers from full screen outside of a read. I don't typically zone Wonder Woman exclusively. But should I, I do so from full screen. You're right mid screen daggers can be blow up by her great mobility AND she can also low profile. Which is why daggers against such an agile character is a no no up close or mid range. Other than characters like Lex, I don't think Frost completely zones out anyone. Most, I would hope, simply spam daggers to gain meter for a MBF3. It crushed Lex's axe and Catwoman's J2. It can beat out Deathstroke and Batman's airs as well, but d2 is usually preferred. I agree most Frost believe "lol I win because you have overheads therefore parry" but the WW MU IMO isn't a parry based MU like Doomsday in the slightest.
Killer Frost's d2 as AA works just fine. What does that mean, "can be avoided?" Any move can be avoided if you make the correct read. That's not a talking point. All this talk about her zoning being bad is ridiculous. Her daggers are only -3 on block and the iceberg tracks. If she's spaced correctly, she can combo off of the iceberg with slide. Maybe it's just me coming from the point of playing a character that has to deal with her zoning, but its fine.Maybe the truth is that Killer Frost players don't want to waste $300 trip for a tournament only to likely lose with her obvious problems
How exactly does Killer Frost open up characters in general?
Slide, Iceberg and Daggers can be jumped over.
If Iceberg functioned the same properties as Aquaman's From The Deep, I can see that but unfortunately it doesn't.
She can't handle jump backs especially air characters that avoid her massively the entire match like Black Adam bunny hopper
B1 isn't great compared to Batgirl's B1 as a footsie tool
Killer Frost's F3 is probably the best in the game and great as anti-air but can be avoided
Her MB Parry if she is successful at a read but if she whiffs it she exposed herself for free punish
She will very likely lose all the air to airs since her jump normals are all slow compared to other's like Lobo J1 or Superman J1 faster ones
No interactable control especially from power characters who can throw stuff at her, she either back dash or MB B3 to take damage reduction
She lacks air control and her jump normals are sloppy like how does she catch a character like Hawkgirl who is evasive the entire time
There hasn't been any Killer Frost players active in the tournament scene to keep up with the meta either
While it is true that she has the comeback factor with her 50/50 vortex, there will be situations where she will hang herself lifelead deficit
Her Air Dash is completely useless since her Trait Cancel pre-patch was nerfed to the ground
In frequent circumstances regarding her blocked Slide she will get the short end of the straw, sliding into armored Bane and his D1 for example
Maybe Killer Frost isn't mid tier character but probably the higher end of the low tier like Catwoman, Shazam and Grundy
She also suffers from bad match ups in that same category Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Hawkgirl, Black Adam, Superman, Wonder Woman, Bane
That of a speculation does she defeat Doomsday? It has not yet been proven at top level maybe in fact it could be solid 5-5 match up
The real question is if you decide to pick up Killer Frost would you shell out $$$ expenses to travel to tournaments with her only character lock?
I like Killer Frost she is an interesting character to me and Batman: Assault on Arkham was bad ass. She is a COOL character
She has real problems and yet no one has seem to overcome the extreme obvious. With the right brackets she can make Top 8 at a stacked major!
They have a MU or two considered a little too disadvantaged to the point where a pocket could down em. They're close.
... a pocket Zatanna? lol.
Deathstroke is on the top of the list. And Coolwhip you almost mirrored exactly what I said about Batman. Hm, maybe I need to re read the OP but I could have sworn I said all those listed have bad MUs. The point is that they don't have death match ups, making them pretty loyalist friendly.
Like I have time to read your OP's
I'm telling Homelee.Like I have time to read your OP's
I guess flash. It's only a 4-6 though. I've been thinking Wonder Woman might give him some trouble too.
Ah I suppose I can see Flash. Even then, like you said, it's not a crippling MU. I believe Deathstroke is truly an all around character. High salt levels, zoning, up close game, footsies, 50/50s, anti airs and good punish tools.
Not sure if joking
I think it's a debatable 6-4 or 7-3, I haven't played enough top deathstrokes offline to make a definite number.
