Mileena is fun but doesn't have what it takes to win a major, here's why

[Crathen]

I feel ya people should check out this thread here and contribute with real data/info instead of complaining ( no offense ) about KL/bad character design , know your matchups as i say , and contribute by testing shit on this game with a sparring partner not by salty online lag matches.

http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?9242-Analizing-Evo-Grandfinal

 

[BenGmanUk]

Ignore

 

[Sultani]

Bad design of characters. I keep repeating this since day 1: You can't make a character be great at offense AND great at defense. That's bound to create a too big imbalance.

There's no way to fairly balance the game at this point without making the top 5 work too hard for damage and/or buffing like 2/3 of the cast.

Ideally, this is how I'd like character designs for the next MK games:

1. Great at offense, poor zoning
2. Great at zoning, poor offense
3. Great at countering zoning/offense, some footsies, bad offense/zoning
4. Great footsies, mid-range and anti-airs, some mixups, bad offense/defense
5. Superior mobility and evasion tools, low damaging combos
6. High damaging combos, little mobility and evasion
7. Average at everything.


Characters like Kung Lao, Raiden, Reptile and Kabal are great at everything (rushdown, zoning, mixup, counter and footsies). While characters like Sindel, Shang Tsung, Stryker, Sonya, Johnny Cage, Baraka and Jax are only great at one thing: zoning or rushdown. That's the problem.

We can only hope NRS learns from their mistakes.

So there's no way to balance things without... uh.. balancing things.. is basically what you're saying.

Why is making people work a little harder for damage while buffing the ridiculous amount of characters that can't compete with the top tier a bad thing?

The tweaks needed aren't even that hard to figure out.. I'm not going to explain them... this is more or less just a list. These obviously wouldn't fix all of the imbalance, but it would be a decent start.

Kung Lao - There's a couple things that you could do, not all of them at the same time... just one of them would suffice... change the hitbox on the spin so that it doesn't hit low hits, or just make it not knock back as far

Cyrax - extend the duration it takes for damage to reset after hitting the ground on a juggle (basically after net, CG, and chestsaw). Remove the ability to use more than one EX bomb in a single combo

Reptile - Slightly increase the recovery frames on a blocked elbow

Raiden - I am too biased to suggest things here... I'm a Mileena player.. so my list would be enormous.. lol.

Shang Tsung - Holy crap fix his uppercut. It's worthless. Give him a decent wakeup so he can do anything at all against defending rush downs.

Johnny Cage - Fix the collision detection on his nut punch. Seriously.. it hits when he's clearly not even close to the opponent.

Nightwolf - reduce the amount of times he can juggle with dash 1.. six times mid screen.. really? 9 times in the corner by just pressing 1111111111? really?

There's tons more things I'd like to see, but this would be my list of things for the next patch.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Sub Zero getting Slide buff = more subzeros placing high in tourneys.... which might also equal less Mileenas placing high in tourneys. If he gets this and Mileena is left alone, that matchup will jump to near the top of the bad matchups list.

 

[Somberness]

Okay, several posts now trying to explain how people can beat Kung Lao and how a certain someone didn't do it properly. Mileena vs Kung Low Hat matchup; I'll explain it.

After a blocked low hat, Mileena has 2 punishment options, down1 or down3. Great damage for the 5-12% you just lost. Whatever, there's other things in this game that fall under the same category for her. You say that it would now be considered neutral? What kind of situation would neutral have to be where spin would beat out everything that she could possibly followup with? Except x-ray because that is the only armor move she has. She can't even get a second down1 because hers has bad range. Even if it could reach, Kung Lao can punish her down1 with a combo on block. So she has to back off, her normals are too slow to do anything up close vs KL's speed of light normals. The only way to get away from this situation is to play reckless because Kung Lao can't be zoned.

REO doing as well he did on a big stage like that even if his opponent was making a few mistakes and didn't exploit the matchup too well is just a testament on how skilled he is at this game. PL just played better and that's all there is to it, congrats to him for the good show. He needs to learn KL's second fatality inputs though.

 

[BoysBoysBoys]

Kung Lao can also Spin Mileenas D4 on reaction since the animation lasts so long.

Nightwolf - reduce the amount of times he can juggle with dash 1.. six times mid screen.. really? 9 times in the corner by just pressing 1111111111? really?

That's only if he doesn't do a B2 after the first hatchet, which does more damage. The most mid screen 1 jabs NW gets off of, say, a F31 Hatchet B2 Hatchet combo is a dash 1 1 122 ender, and even then you sometimes only get one 1 and this combo does 38% which is only 3% more than Mileenas U4 starter. Silly point to make...

 

[bigmiracle]

Bad design of characters. I keep repeating this since day 1: You can't make a character be great at offense AND great at defense. That's bound to create a too big imbalance.

There's no way to fairly balance the game at this point without making the top 5 work too hard for damage and/or buffing like 2/3 of the cast.

Ideally, this is how I'd like character designs for the next MK games:

1. Great at offense, poor zoning
2. Great at zoning, poor offense
3. Great at countering zoning/offense, some footsies, bad offense/zoning
4. Great footsies, mid-range and anti-airs, some mixups, bad offense/defense
5. Superior mobility and evasion tools, low damaging combos
6. High damaging combos, little mobility and evasion
7. Average at everything.


Characters like Kung Lao, Raiden, Reptile and Kabal are great at everything (rushdown, zoning, mixup, counter and footsies). While characters like Sindel, Shang Tsung, Stryker, Sonya, Johnny Cage, Baraka and Jax are only great at one thing: zoning or rushdown. That's the problem.

We can only hope NRS learns from their mistakes.

I agree with this full heartedly. While it's true that the game is still young and will receive another patch, I do believe that some character designs are totally WTF. Becayse of that, I'm not sure a balance patch can necessarily fix it, but here's hoping. In MK it seems some characters have goddamn everything, while some people, like Miss Sheeva, have squat.

 

[chessmaster]

I agree with this full heartedly. While it's true that the game is still young and will receive another patch, I do believe that some character designs are totally WTF. Becayse of that, I'm not sure a balance patch can necessarily fix it, but here's hoping. In MK it seems some characters have goddamn everything, while some people, like Miss Sheeva, have squat.

fuck sheeva. sindel, baraka and stryker have squat too.

 

[Fresh T]

I think people dont understand characters full potential yet, because we dont have people playing them at the highest level.

 

[Past]

Perfect Legend wasn't even playing into his strengths against Mileena. Kung Lao's roll can be hit confirmed into spin which stops air sai's. Perfect Legend did not do this once, he just kept going for unsafe teleports which were never punished! On top of that Kung Lao's low hat pressure was never properly blocked and poked. Reo should have been thinking "I'll block low and attempt to fuzzy guard the overhead if he options it." That way he escapes pressure and if I get hit by overhead who gives a shit because he gets pushed away and is now in a neutral situation.

Of course spin punishes dive kick and a blocked roll, that doesn't make it broken. You guys are acting like Mileena is the only character in this game that should be allowed to be sloppy as hell with immunity to punishment.

People haven't spent time learning the match up so Mileena players get very comfortable using unsafe offense. Almost all of the finals matches at Evo were lost because of match up inexperience. There is to much emphasis on auto-pilot offense and no emphasis on proper defense.

Because of attack strings, this game lacks hit confirmation so players are forced to repeat launcher strings while not being rewarded for properly blocking them because of chip damage and that they are usually safe.

 

[Sultani]

Kung Lao can also Spin Mileenas D4 on reaction since the animation lasts so long.



That's only if he doesn't do a B2 after the first hatchet, which does more damage. The most mid screen 1 jabs NW gets off of, say, a F31 Hatchet B2 Hatchet combo is a dash 1 1 122 ender, and even then you sometimes only get one 1 and this combo does 38% which is only 3% more than Mileenas U4 starter. Silly point to make...

The point isnt silly at all if you understand what the point is - that you can repeat ONE button to juggle someone nine times.

And I figured out that you can do b2, 2 hatchet hatchet, dash 1 (X5), 1, 2, 2, shoulder. 41% midscreen no meter. If you dash keep doing dash 1 6 times and then shoulder, it's 38%. The point is that it's the easiest 38% combo in the game.

If it's a silly point to make, let's just make all combos be these inputs. 1, 11, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1. .... 11

 

[shinzo123]

The point isnt silly at all if you understand what the point is - that you can repeat ONE button to juggle someone nine times.

And I figured out that you can do b2, 2 hatchet hatchet, dash 1 (X5), 1, 2, 2, shoulder. 41% midscreen no meter. If you dash keep doing dash 1 6 times and then shoulder, it's 38%. The point is that it's the easiest 38% combo in the game.

If it's a silly point to make, let's just make all combos be these inputs. 1, 11, 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1. .... 11

Nightwolf's dash 1 cancels are not easy to do especially when you have to stop to do the 122 shoulder which has small window to be linked into shoulder. they're in the medium range. If you want easy damage look at subzero, back 12 free 214 slide.simple 30%+

 

[Sultani]

Nightwolf's dash 1 cancels are not easy to do especially when you have to stop to do the 122 shoulder which has small window to be linked into shoulder. they're in the medium range. If you want easy damage look at subzero, back 12 free 214 slide.simple 30%+

They aren't easy? I practiced with nightwolf for about 5 minutes without even lookuning up any videos or researching anythign at all... and after those five minutes I was getting 5 dash 1s in every single time.

In the corner, you don't even have to dash, and there's no way anything is easier than 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1.

 

[spongebob]

They aren't easy? I practiced with nightwolf for about 5 minutes without even lookuning up any videos or researching anythign at all... and after those five minutes I was getting 5 dash 1s in every single time.

In the corner, you don't even have to dash, and there's no way anything is easier than 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1.

All I can say is congratulations? Whats the big deal about connecting a bunch of dash 1's all your doing limiting and doing less damage in your combo's with NW. I understand its funny to look at at first buts its not really as dumb as you think it is and even if you consider it easy (which is a weak argument) there's still even easier if that is your argument -> See 214 slide

I don't know how far loads of dash 1's into shoulder carries its probably pretty close to the corner from most places on screen, but hey see Raiden's superman and Lui kangs b321's.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Mileena doesn't have what it takes to win a major because every normal in the world beats out roll

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Not true about mileena...roll on wakeup beats almost all moves

 

[ZeroEffect]

you would be surprised.

NW F3
Smoke standing 3
Kitana F4 or D3 sometimes
I've had it beaten by Mileena's own B3
Kung Lao F3
Liu Kang B3

all of these have beaten my roll out somehow. (Cage had something too, but I forget the notation)

Now, unless I've just been experiencing repeated bugs online, which to me seems too frequent to be the case, these moves can basically shut down her best meterless wakeup option. I'm really hoping it is a glitch, cause this kinda stuff irritates me every time I see it.

Even if it's not on wakeup though, It shouldn't be getting beaten by a lot of these moves, at least I don't think it should. I'd even accept it if low kicks beat it, but Kitana F4? Kung Lao F3? unacceptable

 

[Sultani]

wakeup roll = full punish on block.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Mileena is amazing. She has all the tools to win a major.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Did anyone else laugh at this thread when our boy REO got 2nd at EVO?
I felt that, though he didn't come out on top, his performance completely contradicted what he's explaining in this thread. To duke it out with KL in the grand finals and earn second? That's an amazing feat all its own.

Any character has the potential to win. REO, thank you for eliminating our doubts of Mileena's potential.

 

[ZeroEffect]

wakeup roll = full punish on block.

Yes. I know that, it's to discourage aggression when you're down...

but if these moves can just be thrown out to stop it without consequence... (all combo starters too) what good is it?

 

[Eazail]

Did anyone else laugh at this thread when our boy REO got 2nd at EVO?
I felt that, though he didn't come out on top, his performance completely contradicted what he's explaining in this thread. To duke it out with KL in the grand finals and earn second? That's an amazing feat all its own.

Any character has the potential to win. REO, thank you for eliminating our doubts of Mileena's potential.

I wasn't surprised to see Reo perform well with her. I knew what she was capable of and I think Reo won with her at a local ny tournament as well. Milena has the tools to win big imo. Just gotta use her wisely.

 

[Klunker]

I agree with this full heartedly. While it's true that the game is still young and will receive another patch, I do believe that some character designs are totally WTF. Becayse of that, I'm not sure a balance patch can necessarily fix it, but here's hoping. In MK it seems some characters have goddamn everything, while some people, like Miss Sheeva, have squat.

I see what you did thar.

 

[xXMalakianXVII]

This whole thread is such BS, Mileena can just teleport 4000 times and do air sais to make them incredibly safe & build meter & her roll has to be punished while she is rolling in the air unlike every other move in the game...

I really don't understand why this character is downplayed so much, she has such good defense and instant air sais are also way too good against most characters... When I watched EVO and saw REO use the teleport like 80 times in a row and barely ever get punished. So ridiculous...

D4 and that roll which can be done as soon as she lands from her teleport, ughhh...

IDK, she just pisses me off almost more than anyone else in the game.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Just sounds like you haven't learned how to punish her effectively yet. Roll having to be air punished is really a non factor. You can still get good damage off of it with the right punish. Besides, the point is just to make Mileena afraid to throw out random rolls.

Teleport is good, but really unsafe even with air sai. (Reptile just has an issue where he can be jailed by a timed air sai making teleport safe on him. Reo took advantage of that)