General/Other - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn General Discussion

[ShaolinGunFu]

I figured out the trick with blood god- you have to be careful very early on in the round, in the character select screen- and avoid choosing him.

 

[Qwark28]

So I was messing around with Sun God and have to ask. Is this even a grappling character? I see no good tick grabs, and d1 of b12 into grab will whiff and get me full combo punished if the opponent doesn't block.

he has tons of good tick throws off of amazing normals

you need to be able to read your opponent, hes not a character that throws out random normals into random specials and wins.

right now i have sun god as the best grappler in my book and an extremely solid var overall

 

[Rampage254]

I wish I had a good Kotal

 

[Immortal Reaver]

Do you guys have any good setups for the sun ray brutality? It's a hard one to get and I've only gotten it once on accident by throwing them into it. Maybe I'll try a far sun ray and F12 them into it.

 

[Stoneshotz]

Do you guys have any good setups for the sun ray brutality? It's a hard one to get and I've only gotten it once on accident by throwing them into it. Maybe I'll try a far sun ray and F12 them into it.

Right now that brutality doesn't even work for me. I think it was some kind of glitch when they updated the latest patch. Have you pulled it off recently? I mean since after the latest patch.

 

[Immortal Reaver]

Right now that brutality doesn't even work for me. I think it was some kind of glitch when they updated the latest patch. Have you pulled it off recently? I mean since after the latest patch.

Not lately.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

he has tons of good tick throws off of amazing normals

I'm asking for them as the forums aren't very well organized. Well besides the combo thread

you need to be able to read your opponent, hes not a character that throws out random normals into random specials and wins.

right now i have sun god as the best grappler in my book and an extremely solid var overall

I know how to play grappler types. I've played them throughout games like Guilty Gear to games like Street fighter. I'm asking what are these tools that let him play the game "make the opponent fear command grab and then punish them when they try to escape from it."

 

[Stoneshotz]

I'm asking for them as the forums aren't very well organized. Well besides the combo thread


I know how to play grappler types. I've played them throughout games like Guilty Gear to games like Street fighter. I'm asking what are these tools that let him play the game "make the opponent fear command grab and then punish them when they try to escape from it."

b122 is a good setup for command grab- b122db2. You can use that string pretty effectively in alot of situations.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

b122 is a good setup for command grab- b122db2. You can use that string pretty effectively in alot of situations.

If they block it command grab whiffs and they punish you. So if they block b122 your best option isn't to play with command grab it's to use movement and go back to your strings when possible. I'm not saying Sun God isn't a good character, I'm saying that he's not a grappler. He's just a character with a command grab.

 

[Shark Tank]

That's pretty much the case will all NRS cmd throw characters. They aren't super dependent on throws for the majority of their damage. They have other practical options, It just supplements their offensive game instead of ye old high low in a different way although they can have those too. You aren't playing Goro like you would gief or pot. But semantics

 

[Qwark28]

I'm asking for them as the forums aren't very well organized. Well besides the combo thread


I know how to play grappler types. I've played them throughout games like Guilty Gear to games like Street fighter. I'm asking what are these tools that let him play the game "make the opponent fear command grab and then punish them when they try to escape from it."

Literally half of the subforum's second page is filled with my sun god threads. http://testyourmight.com/threads/kotal-kahn-all-possible-sun-god-tick-throws.52641/

If they block it command grab whiffs and they punish you. So if they block b122 your best option isn't to play with command grab it's to use movement and go back to your strings when possible. I'm not saying Sun God isn't a good character, I'm saying that he's not a grappler. He's just a character with a command grab.

You don't use B122 unless you're going for something gimmicky, forget that string exists for 99% of your match.

He functions well as a command grappler because people either take the command grab or risk eating a 47% combo. You have tons of control over the footsie game, almost no other character has so much range and damage, once people respect that they open themselves to sun choke. His archetype really compliments his command grab.

Once you play him more you will begin to understand that.

 

[AKingNamedPaul]

Started learning sun god Kotal after the latest hot fix and I have been having a ton of fun. Really feel like this character has the tools to be incredibly dominant. I still have those new-to-the-character scrub habits and have to learn to utilize all of his tools. I never really know when to use the sun ray unless someone is trying to zone me when they have less health and I only use his AA grab for combos. I wonder if his tick grab setups work as well offline, because online they seem extremely reliable.

Anyway, I want to learn about Kotals safe pressure and Option selects.

 

[mattnin]

So I gotta ask, as a War God Main with a friend who has been interested in Blood God forever, did Blood God's totems get fixed to an effective point where they are now usable and worth it like the Vampire totem?

In my opinion, his totems are useable now. They can be deployed safely and quickly and are effective. Like was said earlier, blood totem still seems broken to me and not really valuable.

Blood God is still hard to win with though. Gotta respect a Blood God player because he doesn't have much to work with but pure footsie skill. He has no armor and very few mix ups.

The only thing Blood God really has going for him is the ability to end a round so fast it'll make the other player go 'wtf just happened'

 

[Runninonwater]

Started learning sun god Kotal after the latest hot fix and I have been having a ton of fun. Really feel like this character has the tools to be incredibly dominant. I still have those new-to-the-character scrub habits and have to learn to utilize all of his tools. I never really know when to use the sun ray unless someone is trying to zone me when they have less health and I only use his AA grab for combos. I wonder if his tick grab setups work as well offline, because online they seem extremely reliable.

Anyway, I want to learn about Kotals safe pressure and Option selects.

Here's a vid i did about some of Kotals tickthrows.

Im actually going back to Kotal Kahn again but this time i'll pick Sun God just like you, seems way more viable now especially in the damage department!

I mean 114 xx DF1 EX, F2, 21, Sun choke (level 3) does a whopping 44%!

He still has the corner combo that Blood God has that can deal up to 60% without the blood offering.

I have to utilise his heals more.


Oh and Kotals Jump forward 1 is amazing! 33% meterless with level 3 Sun Choke.

Jump 1, F2, F2, 21xx Sun choke.

add 1 ex bar and you'll get 40% ish damage.

 

[RYX]

i get emo playing kotal online

nobody respects anything and i end up eating 40% when they get caught mashing and my command grab whiffs ;_;

 

[Hellbringer]

Stop whiffing them, its bad for your health

 

[Fattius]

I don't think air takedown is intended to anti air everything.

I don't know about that it would make sense for him to have a great AA throw since he is a giant. I really enjoy how it beats out most things now.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Literally half of the subforum's second page is filled with my sun god threads. http://testyourmight.com/threads/kotal-kahn-all-possible-sun-god-tick-throws.52641/

You don't use B122 unless you're going for something gimmicky, forget that string exists for 99% of your match.

He functions well as a command grappler because people either take the command grab or risk eating a 47% combo. You have tons of control over the footsie game, almost no other character has so much range and damage, once people respect that they open themselves to sun choke. His archetype really compliments his command grab.

Once you play him more you will begin to understand that.

1) None of those threads was what I was looking for.
2) Have you played grapplers in other games? None of those tick grabs are good with the exception of b1 getting the best mileage.
3) lol what are these situations you're talking about? Besides on the opponents wake up he doesn't have them. In neutral the only way a good opponent is going to fear command grab is b1 ...except if they decide not to block, then Kotal get punished for it. What grappler gets punished because his opponent wants to press buttons? It should be the reverse.
4) I'll say it again since it seems like only shark tank got what I was saying. Sun God isn't a bad character, but he doesn't fit the "grappler archetype". He's just a man with a command grab.

 

[RYX]

i think it's horrible design that command grabs whiff on hitstun at all when it should theoretically link. utterly skews the risk/reward out of the offender's favor and the defender gets rewarded for getting caught mashing.

sun god doesn't really excel as a grappler but he's great at being a guy with a command grab. I still advocate that people are underutilizing his soul scorch's ability to gain meter/recover health

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

grapplers are hard to use because instead of links... the game is built on strings

so you either get a STUPID command grab type (Erron Black) where he has a string that can tick throw at like 5 points and is slow enough to work on hit and block, but fast enough to not really react to....

or you get Goro and Kotal... where the command grab works on block but not on hit and people know this and will set YOU up once you gain level 3 so that you think "oh he is eating this everytime" and you just let a d1 or b1 hit you and watch as Kotal whiffs for no real reason and destroy his face.

ehh.

Blood God seems to be really good now, and can create situations that are just insane.

Sun God shoudl ALWAYS do level 3 damage, the only thing that should stack are the regen things you get from it.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

i think it's horrible design that command grabs whiff on hitstun at all when it should theoretically link. utterly skews the risk/reward out of the offender's favor and the defender gets rewarded for getting caught mashing.

sun god doesn't really excel as a grappler but he's great at being a guy with a command grab. I still advocate that people are underutilizing his soul scorch's ability to gain meter/recover health

I hate that we like the same types of characters and that you bodied me with Bane when I thought bane was bad.

Now I like it because you clearly see what I see. Now if only doomy would warm up to me......... grapple buddies!!!!

 

[RYX]

I hate that we like the same types of characters and that you bodied me with Bane when I thought bane was bad.

Now I like it because you clearly see what I see. Now if only doomy would warm up to me......... grapple buddies!!!!

i think you have me confused with someone else, i'm shit at video games. maybe Max or doombawkz bodied you

whiffing command grabs wasn't an issue in IGAU because grapplers were overall a lot better with more tools. IMO it's a deal breaker for sun god in this game, probably just as bad for goro

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

i think you have me confused with someone else, i'm shit at video games. maybe Max or doombawkz bodied you

whiffing command grabs wasn't an issue in IGAU because grapplers were overall a lot better with more tools. IMO it's a deal breaker for sun god in this game, probably just as bad for goro

evil panda ... or something like that?

ps3.... bodied.

 

[GAV]

I'm asking for them as the forums aren't very well organized. Well besides the combo thread


I know how to play grappler types. I've played them throughout games like Guilty Gear to games like Street fighter. I'm asking what are these tools that let him play the game "make the opponent fear command grab and then punish them when they try to escape from it."

Crouching jab into Sun Throw
Back jab into Sun Throw
Knock him up in the air and combo into Sun Throw

BTW...
Back 1, 2, 2, into Sun Throw works great on the ground, but use 2,1 into Sun Grab when they're airborne.
2, 1 into Sun Grab whiffs on the ground though.

Sun Throw only whiffs when your opponent is in block-stun. If there were no block-stun whiffs, low jabs into Sun Throw would be a true combo. THAT would be a game-changer and you would see Kotal Khan as much as you see Scorpion, Sub Zero, and Kung Jin now.

Beyond that, it would have even farther reaching repercussions - in that throws would be dominant for every character and ticking into them would become the new "noob" offense.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

^As a grappler fo' life, I approve of this discussion. Still holding out hope that Tremor brings something to the table but in the meantime who is everyone leaning toward being the best grappler in the game currently? Sun God has its flaws but I'd looking to me like it might be the way to go if things don't change and Tremor doesn't end up bringing the pain. I like Wrestler Jax too but I don't really use him like a grappler at all...