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Kombat Tomb Podcast - Ep. 42 with AK Smarrgasm

TotteryManx

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
I missed the whole Mars/space part...let me clarify some things.

It takes around 6 months to get to Mars and there is a manned mission being planned as we speak. It is labeled "Mars One" and is being organized by a Dutch company. With that said, there is a lot of controversy surrounding it because they want to send 4 humans on a one way trip to Mars to begin colonization(no coming back). The goal is to arrive at the red planet in 2025. Married men with children have applied for the position and wives are filing for divorce and all kinds of shit. Also, Muslims have spoke out against it calling it the Mars Fatwa lol. Anyway...I'm surprised you guys don't know about this? Astronomy is a hobby of mine. More people should get into this subject.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/10/tech/innovation/mars-one-plan/
 
cR WoundCowboy

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
GGA Slips said:
I stopped playing fighting games for a year and played nothing but Call of Duty. Although I'm certainly better at it, I don't consider my skill at the game to be very special or above anyone else's. My aim is whatever, my movement is average, ect. I love playing it and it's super fun. I wish I could get better. But there are roadblocks I haven't been able to get passed and I don't know if it's a knowledge barrier, mental barrier or skill barrier. Whatever it is, it's certainly not instinctual to be good at like fighting games were for me.

Like I said in the show, it took about a year to get pretty good at Tekken. That didn't happen in FPS's.

I know super passionate players back in Saint Louis that love Tekken. When I took a year off from playing, I thought they might quit knowing I wasn't there to help represent them. But they didn't. Even after I've moved to Chicago they play relentlessly and try to get better...

It's been 6 years and a lot of them aren't any better from the Tekken 5 days. And it's not from lack of trying. For some reason there are road blocks they can't get passed. Much like me in FPS's.

Glass Sword I believe is an example of just being better at a certain type of fighting game. MK9 wasn't his thing, but he gets Injustice...or gets Raven at the very least. Each fighting game caters to some different skills. But that's a different debate.
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Well the only thing I can think of is that these people either are going about it the wrong way (practicing things that aren't that important) or they have a mental block that makes them think they will never be able to improve. Just playing against high level players and getting stomped isn't enough to make you better. You have to be able to analyze why you are losing and what you need to work on to improve. This is a skill that REALLY requires you to be dedicated. The people you are playing that haven't improved probably play similar to how they did in Tekken 5: they haven't changed either because they don't really know what they are doing wrong or because they aren't trying to adapt.
 
legion666

legion666

Noob
GGA Slips said:
It took Wound about a year to become the great player he is now much like myself in my early years. He was always decent even from the get go, but some players stay just being 'decent'. That's the issue.
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Yeah, and some are top from the get go. It is just that some have traits to adapt faster. You can become top through hard work and dedication it will just take more time then if you are "talented" in it to begin with. And by talented I mean certain parts of your brain and body are better adjusted to do something. But there can be other things you suck at and other person's brain and body are adjusted to it better. It is like you microevolution took different paths. And one is labeled talented if he is lucky to get into a situation where he can take advantage of his specific trait. So hardwork is a way to change you traits- but you may not live long enough to change some of them even working as hard as possible.
 
AK Harold

AK Harold

Noob
I didn't get to listen to the full thing yet, but as far as natural talent. . . I thought I was good at games, I naturally grasp concepts pretty fast in fighting games and rts/moba games. I do play a lot when I first get into them, but when I talk to other players about playtime etc. I am astonished at how much other people play/practice. I am by no means a "best" player in injustice but I would rank myself in the top half at least and my playtime pales in comparison.

And THEN there is a player like Asian Hitler who is one of my friends and a legendary fighting game player. I guarantee you if he played injustice for a week he would be placing top 8 and bodying top 8 players in this game he is just that good at them.
 
Slips

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
WoundCowboy said:
Well the only thing I can think of is that these people either are going about it the wrong way (practicing things that aren't that important) or they have a mental block that makes them think they will never be able to improve. Just playing against high level players and getting stomped isn't enough to make you better. You have to be able to analyze why you are losing and what you need to work on to improve. This is a skill that REALLY requires you to be dedicated. The people you are playing that haven't improved probably play similar to how they did in Tekken 5: they haven't changed either because they don't really know what they are doing wrong or because they aren't trying to adapt.
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I told each of them what they needed to practice and what they needed to do to improve. I too thought it was a matter of them not caring enough, but the fact they are playing and try very hard to this day tells me that's not it.

I wanted to be super good at Guilty Gear. Game is metal as fuck. I had one of the best players in the country to train with daily. But I am ass at the game. I simply don't have the execution skill or am able to think that fast to be good at the game.

Same with ST. I understand everything there is to know, but I simply do not have the ability to execute just frame reversals like the top players can or play Vega at a lightning speed to amplify his cheapness to help my odds.

I agree with some of these things are barriers that people can overcome. Most of the time it's understanding what you aren't doing wrong in the first place that causes the problem. But there are some barriers that stare you in the face, and no matter what you do or how hard you try you can't overcome them.

You are 2 for 2 in fighting games. Maybe you are a prodigy like Chris G or Justin. Time will tell. It's surprising that one of the biggest downplayers in our scene is downplaying his own talent and is just saying he's worked harder than everyone else. :p
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
GGA Slips said:
You are 2 for 2 in fighting games. Maybe you are a prodigy like Chris G or Justin. Time will tell. It's surprising that one of the biggest downplayers in our scene is downplaying his own talent and is just saying he's worked harder than everyone else. :p
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If you talk to SaltFace, he says similar things.

I feel like talent is when you can be good without working insanely hard/smart.
And working insanely hard/smart can make you good without talent.

If you have both talent and you work insanely hard/smart, that's where you get phenoms like Daigo.
 
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coolwhip

coolwhip

Noob
In any form of competition, whether physical or otherwise, there will always be some who are just more gifted than others and pick everything up faster. Hard work can get you very far, and obviously, talent alone won't cut it. However, there are certain things that hard work just can't accomplish, and they separate the geniuses/prodigies from the very good.
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
coolwhip said:
In any form of competition, whether physical or otherwise, there will always be some who are just more gifted than others and pick everything up faster. Hard work can get you very far, and obviously, talent alone won't cut it. However, there are certain things that hard work just can't accomplish, and they separate the geniuses/prodigies from the very good.
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I'm not quoting you to call YOU out but this mentality. I feel almost like this mentality is, even though it may be true, not something we should all just agree to. Hard work most certainly can put you in elite categories without the "talent".

Smargasm's story is tribute to this. His talent is there and he worked his ass off for it. I'd contribute my success to that as well (if you can call it that)

10000 concentrated hours is what it takes for mastery. You usually won't ever get that in the life of a game. This mentality should mean that there is no limit to the level of play you can reach in the life of a fighting game. Ssf4 might be different because of how similar the engines are to different versions.
 
coolwhip

coolwhip

Noob
AK L0rdoftheFLY said:
I'm not quoting you to call YOU out but this mentality. I feel almost like this mentality is, even though it may be true, not something we should all just agree to. Hard work most certainly can put you in elite categories without the "talent".

Smargasm's story is tribute to this. His talent is there and he worked his ass off for it. I'd contribute my success to that as well (if you can call it that)

10000 concentrated hours is what it takes for mastery. You usually won't ever get that in the life of a game. This mentality should mean that there is no limit to the level of play you can reach in the life of a fighting game. Ssf4 might be different because of how similar the engines are to different versions.
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As I said, hard work can get you very far. It can get you to the top. But there are certain things that talent allows you that just can never be accomplished by hard work. That doesn't mean that talent > hard work. Especially in fighting games, because hard work might compensate for many things, and indeed, give you advantages that talent cannot (such as match-up knowledge, for example). I'm sure we're all aware of the cliche "hard work beats talent when talent refuses to work hard," but it's actually very true.

But there are things that you can only acquire in a limited fashion with hard work, and can only fully exploit if you have special talent.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, and ideally, both are combined for maximum results. And most of our players, no matter how hard they work, have a measure of talent otherwise they wouldn't be where they are. I'm sure Smarr works very hard, but who's to say he's not talented?

Likewise, I'm sure guys like Daigo or Infiltration work very hard, but it's pretty obvious they have out of this world talent, and it's not a matter of having nothing to do but play fighting games (like Wound suggested re: Chris G). These guys are special, and are obviously gifted.
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
coolwhip said:
As I said, hard work can get you very far. It can get you to the top. But there are certain things that talent allows you that just can never be accomplished by hard work. That doesn't mean that talent > hard work. Especially in fighting games, because hard work might compensate for many things, and indeed, give you advantages that talent cannot (such as match-up knowledge, for example). I'm sure we're all aware of the cliche "hard work beats talent when talent refuses to work hard," but it's actually very true.

But there are things that you can only acquire in a limited fashion with hard work, and can only fully exploit if you have special talent.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, and ideally, both are combined for maximum results. And most of our players, no matter how hard they work, have a measure of talent otherwise they wouldn't be where they are. I'm sure Smarr works very hard, but who's to say he's not talented?

Likewise, I'm sure guys like Daigo or Infiltration work very hard, but it's pretty obvious they have out of this world talent, and it's not a matter of having nothing to do but play fighting games (like Wound suggested re: Chris G). These guys are special, and are obviously gifted.
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I agree...but what do we have to gain but putting up limits on us as players? This is one of those "ignorance is bliss" situations. The moment you realize you will never be a professional athlete is the day you stop working to get there. You know what I am saying?
 
coolwhip

coolwhip

Noob
GGA Slips said:
You are 2 for 2 in fighting games. Maybe you are a prodigy like Chris G or Justin. Time will tell. It's surprising that one of the biggest downplayers in our scene is downplaying his own talent and is just saying he's worked harder than everyone else. :p
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Maybe that's Wound's way of subtly downplaying his characters. Since he plays shitters like Shang and Sinestro, he HAS to work harder than everyone else :DOGE
 
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coolwhip

coolwhip

Noob
AK L0rdoftheFLY said:
I agree...but what do we have to gain but putting up limits on us as players? This is one of those "ignorance is bliss" situations. The moment you realize you will never be a professional athlete is the day you stop working to get there. You know what I am saying?
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We shouldn't place limits at all. Our players shouldn't have a defeatist attitude. I was only speaking in general terms. I would never advocate for anyone to settle for mediocrity.
 
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Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Noob
I used to play streetsoccer back in the day and a lot of people wanted to learn tricks from me when they saw me play but all of them gave up without really putting in any effort. There are so many things that kept people from becoming a good player. A lot of people want results from little effort, want to do things their way, do not understand the importance of the method to learn something, they do not pay attention to the details at all, think like they don't have the talent to do something even though they haven't even really tried yet etc.

At the same time, when you look at fighting games, a player who has only learned the basics from another top player and figured out his own original style/strategies/tech will often be better than someone who has learned literally everything from another good player, because the other player will always know how to improve himself as a player while the latter will probably never surpass the player that teached him how to play fighting games.
 
M

McGowanSheWrote

Noob
Five more questions for KTP

1. As we develop and refine gaming engines and A.I., what if we have the ability to give characters in games a true sense of pain and emotions. Would it be immoral to play fighting games at that point? (other games, the enemy gets hurt and following its pain threshold, will run away, but in fighting games they would have no choice but to continue taking punishment since their actual bodies are controlled by players)

2. If it was completely safe, would prefer to live on a distant planet or in an underwater city?

3. If people were physically limited to 10 lies per week (after which they simply cannot do it) what do you think most of people's lie inventory would be used on?
Also to add a bit more trickiness to it, lets have 3 of those lies be automatic belief ones. As soon as you say them, the other person will believe you no matter what you said. AND lets give everyone one auto-lie-detector per week. if you apply it and someone lies to you, you will immediately know they are lying, even the against the auto belief ones. Trick is, you would have to apply it on an educated guess that someone would be (later in the day) going to use an auto belief on you. If you use it and no one lies, then you wasted it. Also it would be a waste to use it against regular lies.

4. If you had unlimited resources to collect anything in the world, what would it be?

5. If you were cursed (?) to eat only one type of dessert for the rest of your life (every time you went to any restaurant, every time to went to anyone's house there was just this one dessert available for you) what would it be?
 
RunwayMafia

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
WoundCowboy said:
Well the only thing I can think of is that these people either are going about it the wrong way (practicing things that aren't that important) or they have a mental block that makes them think they will never be able to improve. Just playing against high level players and getting stomped isn't enough to make you better. You have to be able to analyze why you are losing and what you need to work on to improve. This is a skill that REALLY requires you to be dedicated. The people you are playing that haven't improved probably play similar to how they did in Tekken 5: they haven't changed either because they don't really know what they are doing wrong or because they aren't trying to adapt.
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I actually agree with both you and Slips. It's odd...but both your opinions on this make total sense to me.

I'll just use myself for this example:

A.) The natural talent argument- Yes, absolutely some people have a "natural talent" or natural understanding in FG's. They click with the movement, the character, and whatever tactics get the job done. I can remember when I was little, I was always good at FG's and would always beat my buddies.

For example, when MK9 first came out, I was playing Kitana online (before knowing TYM or the competitive FGC even existed) and I would receive compliments from people stating I was "good" or what have you. I knew what I was doing to an extent, but had no idea what footsies, spacing, setups, mixups or even what "punishing" was. Had no concept of frame data or safe/unsafe normals etc., etc.,

B.) The hard work/dedication/motivation argument- Yes, absolutely training hard and being motivated can and will propel a person to the "top". Many famous athletes that are successful are not exactly considered "talented", but have achieved so much due to their extremely good work ethic and motivation. Jimmy Connors comes to mind.

Ever since I discovered TYM and the competitive FGC, I have now learned when and how to implement good spacing, footsies, and how to zone. I now know how to punish unsafe attacks. I now understand frame data and the importance of certain set ups/mix ups. I have spent a few years working on all of these things, and I'd like to think I'm far more deadlier than I was before.

I tend to think the majority of us here are a combination of both. It simply comes down to patience and knowledge, imo.
 
LanceMonsoon

LanceMonsoon

All in on Johnny Football
About the nature talent and hard work thing, I think that with anything in life if you try hard enough you can succeed at it. With that being said however, I believe that everyone has ceilings or walls. I don't like comparing sports to fighting games but with this argument I feel it is valid to do so. People don't think that Lebron James, MJ, Carmelo, Larry Bird, Steve Nash, Magic Johnson etc etc just "worked hard" do they? They were born with a gift and developed it over time. Not everyone has a ceiling as high as they do else there would be no point in d3 college athletics or even mid major really. Idk thats my take on it, people can succeed off of hard work but not at the level people with natural talent plus hard work can.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
ThirdStrikeYun said:
I used to play streetsoccer back in the day and a lot of people wanted to learn tricks from me when they saw me play but all of them gave up without really putting in any effort. There are so many things that kept people from becoming a good player. A lot of people want results from little effort, want to do things their way, do not understand the importance of the method to learn something, they do not pay attention to the details at all, think like they don't have the talent to do something even though they haven't even really tried yet etc.

At the same time, when you look at fighting games, a player who has only learned the basics from another top player and figured out his own original style/strategies/tech will often be better than someone who has learned literally everything from another good player, because the other player will always know how to improve himself as a player while the latter will probably never surpass the player that teached him how to play fighting games.
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e.g Yoro
 
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