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General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

EGP Awesomo

EGP Awesomo

R.T.S.D
GGA Dizzy said:
I'm just going to interject here to say mimic shadow kick is +14 on block at mimimum. I don't believe it will ever be lower than that.

That said, I don't think a solid argument can be made for SD having better pressure. After a blocked MSK, you aren't in range to do standing 1 or throw. SD mixups are fairly straightforward and predictable. In additon, they can take the hit of the MSK, and there isn't much you can do except do MRS if you read they will take the hit. A-List has very few opportunities to take a hit to get out of his pressure, and much more varied ways for you to mix it up and try and be unpredictable, or at the very least just throw them if their defense is on point.
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Ive been told +12-14, but I know you've done the research. I'll take it
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
I think NRS assumed we'd be using MRS in some capacity outside of combos. It's the only reason the fireball isnt like the other variations. I'm still waiting to hear what the other uses are.
 
rafaw

rafaw

#YouSuck
Thanilla Ice said:
amazing d4 mid screen pressure without having to be scared of using it and the MSK is +11 its gdlk
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I already said msk on block is +14 not +11... and you are saying that you know everything about SD? righhhhhtt!

And A list got D4 too you know? and a lot of a list cancels are +12~+17 with better follow up options and better ways to mix up! SD is just better in some MU, and not that much....
 
DrFolmer

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
Fisticuffs is just underwhelming. The variation had it's prime in one match up - everyone else adapted.

Flame fist is just a lot more reliable. Faster buff start up with on hit damage as well. Fist bump only gets chip (which is okay) but it is super slow to come out.

The only thing this variation has is the corner game. It loses all the neat tools to apply pressure. A-list and SD can both start their pressure from a f3 on hit/block, but Fisticuffs doesn't have neat tools to take much advantage of that amazing normal. It's still an excellent whiff punisher.

I had just hoped Fisticuffs got some love with the big patch but nah.
 
EGP Awesomo

EGP Awesomo

R.T.S.D
DrFolmer said:
Fisticuffs is just underwhelming. The variation had it's prime in one match up - everyone else adapted.

Flame fist is just a lot more reliable. Faster buff start up with on hit damage as well. Fist bump only gets chip (which is okay) but it is super slow to come out.

The only thing this variation has is the corner game. It loses all the neat tools to apply pressure. A-list and SD can both start their pressure from a f3 on hit/block, but Fisticuffs doesn't have neat tools to take much advantage of that amazing normal. It's still an excellent whiff punisher.

I had just hoped Fisticuffs got some love with the big patch but nah.
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I think the the way fisticuffs started up its stuff iirc was with b2 xx fistbump. But its still probably the best variation against quan chi I think. He is still really slow and it still blows up any armor attempts he has
 
Asodimazze

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
EGP_Awesomo said:
I think the the way fisticuffs started up its stuff iirc was with b2 xx fistbump. But its still probably the best variation against quan chi I think. He is still really slow and it still blows up any armor attempts he has
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You can blow out Quan Chi armor with 11, 12, 21...no need for speed bag really. Imho fisticuff is absolutely useless, I would not use it over A-List or Stunt Double in any matchup.
 
DrFolmer

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
EGP_Awesomo said:
I think the the way fisticuffs started up its stuff iirc was with b2 xx fistbump. But its still probably the best variation against quan chi I think. He is still really slow and it still blows up any armor attempts he has
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I'm pretty sure pretty much all Johnny's variations can blow up skydrop. Thing is, you give up a lot of power in the neutral. A-list and stunt double can both apply their pressure from a blocked f3. I mean, there's a reason we never see the variation being used. It needs something to stand out. I would never choose Fisticuffs over A-list under any circumstance.
 
Mikemetroid

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Fisticuffs isnt about rushdown. It's all about cycling the chip trait and doing insane chip damage.

B34exfb - 10%
F34 - 6%
D4, fb - 5%
Fb - 4%

Insane chip levels that people don't realize are being done against them.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Mikemetroid said:
Fisticuffs isnt about rushdown. It's all about cycling the chip trait and doing insane chip damage.

B34exfb - 10%
F34 - 6%
D4, fb - 5%
Fb - 4%

Insane chip levels that people don't realize are being done against them.
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It's just too bad that honest dirt like that wont win you matches in a game where characters can have awesome normals with 50/50s that lead to 40%+ with a bar. Sometimes I feel like the top tiers should be in a completely different game.
 
EGP Awesomo

EGP Awesomo

R.T.S.D
Name v.5.0 said:
It's just too bad that honest dirt like that wont win you matches in a game where characters can have awesome normals with 50/50s that lead to 40%+ with a bar. Sometimes I feel like the top tiers should be in a completely different game.
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Which is why I say it only really works effectivly on quan, Outside of that a-list for days
 
rafaw

rafaw

#YouSuck
Even on Quan i cant put FC over A list... you will open him up way more with a list than with FC, and in the armor breaking department we can full combo punish any armor he try, 12rc....
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Why would you rely on chipping Quan? He has a 6f poke now to deal with b121 as well as his boss backdash, and that is all Fisticuffs has. He doesn't have the brokenness of A-List's f3 and you're hardly going to be throwing fireballs all day at Quan Chi.
 
IrishMantis

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
Name v.5.0 said:
I gotta say, this advice is slightly strange. There is NO safe block string to get mimics out. D4 is tricksy, but not guaranteed.
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i think he means if D4 hits the following cNcel Mimick into MSK is guaranteed and after that you get a guaranteed F34

Lol the he broke SD was too much lol
 
R

Rodney Quillz

Noob
So I have been having trouble with the takeda SHIRAI ryu,Kung Lao temptest, and predator pewpewpew match ups.

Anyone wanna throw me a life raft here and help me out?
 
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