Injustice Wakeup System Help

[CalDW19940]

I think a lot of wake up special move attacks have invincibility frames that do NOT last until the first active frame, for example I was playing against this wonder woman who would always do wake up uppercut special move that would blow up my meaty attacks, but then later I started timing my meaty attack later (so that it technically wasn't meaty) and it blew up her wake up uppercut. This is probably what is happening to people who see their wake up special move being stuffed some times.

From what I've heard, killer frost's slide and black adam's electric cage are a couple of the only wake up attacks that are truly invincible throughout their startup and active frames.

How many frames do wake up attacks have of invul startup exactly? I heard it's 8 and if that's true then Lex Luthor's corp charge is invul till the first active frame.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Yeah but in Street Fighter there are are ton of good wakeups that will stop pressure. Shoryken, fei long fire kick, balrog headbutt, blanka ball, sagat uppercut, chun li EX spinning bird kick.

The list goes on, there are a TON of wakeup attacks in Street Fighter that stop jumpins and meaty normals. Only like 10% of the wakeups in Injustice stop jumpins and meaty normals. If that, it might be less than 10% lol

Loads of wakeups work in this game, its on the player more so than the move, you gotta input it as you see your character getting up.
Not like MK where you can just mash it out.

Commiting to a wakeup in this game actually takes a certain degree of skill. You have to be confident that 1. The opponent is gonna pressure and 2. You have the timing to keep your invincible frames.

 

[ForeverKing]

Loads of wakeups work in this game, its on the player more so than the move, you gotta input it as you see your character getting up.
Not like MK where you can just mash it out.

Commiting to a wakeup in this game actually takes a certain degree of skill. You have to be confident that 1. The opponent is gonna pressure and 2. You have the timing to keep your invincible frames.

I know how the wakeup attacks work. It tells you in the bottom corner of your screen if you do a wakeup attack, it says "wakeup attack" lol. And sometimes in the bottom corner of my screen I see the words "wakeup attack" and I see my character doing a special move when standing up off the ground. So I'm like hey look at me, I'm doing a wakeup attack. But than it gets beat out by my opponents pressure

 

[kabelfritz]

i think wakeups get stuffed by lows and overheads. anyone else notice that?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I know how the wakeup attacks work. It tells you in the bottom corner of your screen if you do a wakeup attack, it says "wakeup attack" lol. And sometimes in the bottom corner of my screen I see the words "wakeup attack" and I see my character doing a special move when standing up off the ground. So I'm like hey look at me, I'm doing a wakeup attack. But than it gets beat out by my opponents pressure

Just because it says wake up attack, doesn't mean that you executed it during its invincibility frames. That's why a lot of players 'wake ups' get beaten out, even if they're using a move that CAN be used as an invincible wake up

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Yesterday I learned that the window to input wake up attacks is both strict and huge if that even makes sense.

For example unlike SF you can't mash your move too early or it won't come out. You have to time your wake up in a specific window. But that window where you can input wake up attack is bigger than in SF.

In SF the reversal window is like 1-2 frames tops. But in Injustice you can actually delay a wake up attack by like 10 frames which can make all the difference in the world.

 

[smokey]

Just because it says wake up attack, doesn't mean that you executed it during its invincibility frames. That's why a lot of players 'wake ups' get beaten out, even if they're using a move that CAN be used as an invincible wake up

Also surely only having 8 frames of invincibility means that they can get hit out after the 8th frame if they are still in startup? Hitting meaty on wakeups should still beat them if you hit at the right point into the startup, after the invincibility but before the active?

 

[REDRUM]

KF's slide is fully invincible, so thats one at least.

Doomsday's upward venom feels pretty invisible on wakeups too but its super punishable on whiffs...

 

[Dizzy]

Yesterday I learned that the window to input wake up attacks is both strict and huge if that even makes sense.

For example unlike SF you can't mash your move too early or it won't come out. You have to time your wake up in a specific window. But that window where you can input wake up attack is bigger than in SF.

In SF the reversal window is like 1-2 frames tops. But in Injustice you can actually delay a wake up attack by like 10 frames which can make all the difference in the world.

Have you done any testing regarding if the "delayed wake ups" have less invincibility?

If you set the CPU to wake up attack, they obviously do a "perfect" wakeup that gets whatever invincibility the move has at maximum. I need to look into it more, but I have a feeling that delayed wake up attacked do not have full invincibility. My theory is that if delayed for a while, the subsequent invincibility frames and also lost, even though it says wake up.

Sadly, in MK9 we as a community did not fully understand the wake up attack system until over a year into the game (EX moves giving 20f of invinc instead of 11). So, this makes me all the more interested in exploring delayed wake ups so something like this doesn't happen again.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Have you done any testing regarding if the "delayed wake ups" have less invincibility?

No I don't really know how it affects invincibility.

But I'm guessing if I do a non-perfect wake up attack, say delayed by 5 frames, that is 5 frames where my hurtbox is vulnerable and the 8f invincible properties have not yet started. So that could explain why so many get hit by meaties even though it says "wake up attack" at the bottom of the screen.

Or like you said maybe delayed wake up attacks just have less invincible frames. Who knows..

 

[Dizzy]

No I don't really know how it affects invincibility.

But I'm guessing if I do a non-perfect wake up attack, say delayed by 5 frames, that is 5 frames where my hurtbox is vulnerable and the 8f invincible properties have not yet started. So that could explain why so many get hit by meaties even though it says "wake up attack" at the bottom of the screen.

That is interesting, I could see that being the case as well. Another thing to look into. So much stuff to test in a new game

Its been stated in streams by Paulo (and is shown by testing wakeups) that most of the "good wakeups" don't follow the 8f rule as it was previously thought. For example, Catwoman's trait when used as a wakeup has 17f of invinc, and there are a ton of other wakeups who have full invinc that are slower than 8f (KF slide, Doomsday Upward Venom, Harley Tantrum, etc).

So I can safely say the wakeup invinc is variable from move to move.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

It would have been so much easier for the players if they included which wakeup attacks are invincible or not and how many frames of invincibility said wakeup attack has in the moves list.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

Wait wait wait are we saying that all wakeup moves, when done perfectly, have 8 frames of invinsibility?

I thought some moves have and some moves don't, and for the ones that do it varies. What's this 8 frames about?

 

[GodsLonelyman]

Wait wait wait are we saying that all wakeup moves, when done perfectly, have 8 frames of invinsibility?

I thought some moves have and some moves don't, and for the ones that do it varies. What's this 8 frames about?

No what they are saying is that the ones that do have invincibility, not all are a universal 8 frames, as previously thought.