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Il be the first to say it.

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So let me get this straight. The same community that lets Kabal (who is agreed to lose NO matchups and may be favorable in every matchup) and Kenshi (loses one matchup and flat out bodies most of the cast with his specials alone) to be usable in tournaments, but not Scorpion (a character who doesn't win every matchup and has been out for only ONE MONTH). Man this community is strange.

Comparing a bad situation to another bad situation does not make the first one excusable. MK had a short run because of shit like that (cryax, kung lao, kabal, kenshi). It would have lived on a lot longer had NRS fixed their game.

Injustice was a step in the right direction. No one character was as dominating as MK's top 4. It focused more on footsies and fundamentals than MK. Every character can bait with b3/f3, which is a great addition (clearly modeled after SF's focus attacks). And then Scorpion comes along and turns the game from "a lot more balanced than MK" to "orders of magnitude more screwed up than MK." And, as you've said, MK is pretty unbalanced to begin with.

Point is... Just because MK is broken doesn't mean that we should sit here and accept another broken NRS game.
 

dookieagain

Last Bastion of Arcades
For people who are saying that Scorpion can't be banned because he may have bad matchups and he has been ranked below 1 on the tier list before. Now I don't have a strong opinion on banning him or not. I am not a high enough level player to really know for sure, but I do have a history with fighting games.

For that reason I want to talk about a character named O. Sagat. Now O. Sagat is not the best character in Super Turbo. He actually has bad matchups against Claw and Boxer as well as Dhalsim, however he also has multiple 9-1 and 8-2 matchups. So although he isn't broken, he forces character selection in a way very few other characters do.

http://www.strevival.com/strategy/rankingchart2013/

So next I'm just going to post a long excerpt of David Sirlin's perennial Playing to Win.

"That's all well and good, but Japan has also shown signs of a soft-ban on another character in Super Turbo. I bring up this example because it lives on the threshold. It is just on the edge of what is reasonable to ban because it is "too good." Anything less than this would not be reasonable, so perhaps others can use it as a benchmark to decide what is reasonable in their games.

The character in question is the mysteriously named "Old Sagat." Old Sagat is not a secret character like Akuma (or at least he's not as secret!). Old Sagat does not have any moves like Akuma's air fireball that the game was not designed to handle. Old Sagat is arguably the best character in the game (Akuma, of course, doesn't count), but even that is debated by top players! I think almost any expert player would rank him in the top three of all characters, but there isn't even universal agreement that he is the best! Why, then, would any reasonable person even consider banning him? Surely, it must be a group of scrubs who simply don't know how to beat him, and reflexively cry out for a ban.

But this is not the case. There seems to be a tacit agreement amongst top players in Japan--a soft ban--on playing Old Sagat. The reason is that many believe the game to have much more variety without Old Sagat. Even if he is only second best in the game by some measure, he flat out beats half the characters in the game with little effort. Half the cast can barely even fight him, let alone beat him. Other top characters in the game, good as they are, win by much more interaction and more "gameplay." Almost every character has a chance against the other best characters in the game. The result of allowing Old Sagat in tournaments is that several other characters, such as Chun Li and Ken, become basically unviable.

If someone had made these claims in the game's infancy, no sort of ban would be warranted. Further testing through tournaments would be warranted. But we now have ten years of testing. We don't have all Old Sagat vs. Old Sagat matches in tournaments, but we do know which characters can't beat him and as a result are very rarely played in America. We likewise can see that this same category of characters flourishes in Japan, where Old Sagats are rare and only played by the occasional violator of the soft ban. It seems that the added variety of viable characters might outweigh the lack of Old Sagat. Is this ban warranted then?"

So that's the question. I think Scorpion is very much akin to O. Sagat. His inclusion invalidates certain otherwise viable characters completely, however he is not dominant in a way that is unbeatable and clear cut like ST Akuma.

(Full text of the article: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-banned.html)
 

Flagg

Noob
I like the idea of using interactables to extend combos. But I don't like the way they are now... Meaty interactables? Give me a break. Just because I get knocked down you're guaranteed another 20% with the press of one button? That should cost 2 bars of meter.
It's not just that, it also messes up strings as well.

Yeah it was cool throwing people through crates on Guiles stage back in the 90's, but this crap of throwing MASSIVE hitboxes at people for 20% damage is dumb.
 

AnaboliChris

Master of Magnetism
Here in venezuela hes, and will remain banned, the char is ok for MK games whit block button, not for a back button block game.
I dont get this. You see Scorpion teleport in MK then you 'press' and 'hold' the block button. Why cant you do the same with pressing and holding a direction?

I cant imagine some of you guys playing Marvel especially against Vergil teleporting with Magneto beam/Vajra assist.
 
I dont get this. You see Scorpion teleport in MK then you 'press' and 'hold' the block button. Why cant you do the same with pressing and holding a direction?

I cant imagine some of you guys playing Marvel especially against Vergil teleporting with Magneto beam/Vajra assist.
teleport is too fast in injustice not like in mk9, directins randomly derp/do not register, I still shitpush every scorps online whit my doomsday tho but still the char was not designed for injustice.
 

Kiko

Face it, you're done.
I dont get this. You see Scorpion teleport in MK then you 'press' and 'hold' the block button. Why cant you do the same with pressing and holding a direction?

I cant imagine some of you guys playing Marvel especially against Vergil teleporting with Magneto beam/Vajra assist.

It's fast and instant and pressing any move other than down will result in a punish. I fucking feel like I'm playing a star labs mission.
 
For people who are saying that Scorpion can't be banned because he may have bad matchups and he has been ranked below 1 on the tier list before. Now I don't have a strong opinion on banning him or not. I am not a high enough level player to really know for sure, but I do have a history with fighting games.

For that reason I want to talk about a character named O. Sagat. Now O. Sagat is not the best character in Super Turbo. He actually has bad matchups against Claw and Boxer as well as Dhalsim, however he also has multiple 9-1 and 8-2 matchups. So although he isn't broken, he forces character selection in a way very few other characters do.

http://www.strevival.com/strategy/rankingchart2013/

So next I'm just going to post a long excerpt of David Sirlin's perennial Playing to Win.

"That's all well and good, but Japan has also shown signs of a soft-ban on another character in Super Turbo. I bring up this example because it lives on the threshold. It is just on the edge of what is reasonable to ban because it is "too good." Anything less than this would not be reasonable, so perhaps others can use it as a benchmark to decide what is reasonable in their games.

The character in question is the mysteriously named "Old Sagat." Old Sagat is not a secret character like Akuma (or at least he's not as secret!). Old Sagat does not have any moves like Akuma's air fireball that the game was not designed to handle. Old Sagat is arguably the best character in the game (Akuma, of course, doesn't count), but even that is debated by top players! I think almost any expert player would rank him in the top three of all characters, but there isn't even universal agreement that he is the best! Why, then, would any reasonable person even consider banning him? Surely, it must be a group of scrubs who simply don't know how to beat him, and reflexively cry out for a ban.

But this is not the case. There seems to be a tacit agreement amongst top players in Japan--a soft ban--on playing Old Sagat. The reason is that many believe the game to have much more variety without Old Sagat. Even if he is only second best in the game by some measure, he flat out beats half the characters in the game with little effort. Half the cast can barely even fight him, let alone beat him. Other top characters in the game, good as they are, win by much more interaction and more "gameplay." Almost every character has a chance against the other best characters in the game. The result of allowing Old Sagat in tournaments is that several other characters, such as Chun Li and Ken, become basically unviable.

If someone had made these claims in the game's infancy, no sort of ban would be warranted. Further testing through tournaments would be warranted. But we now have ten years of testing. We don't have all Old Sagat vs. Old Sagat matches in tournaments, but we do know which characters can't beat him and as a result are very rarely played in America. We likewise can see that this same category of characters flourishes in Japan, where Old Sagats are rare and only played by the occasional violator of the soft ban. It seems that the added variety of viable characters might outweigh the lack of Old Sagat. Is this ban warranted then?"

So that's the question. I think Scorpion is very much akin to O. Sagat. His inclusion invalidates certain otherwise viable characters completely, however he is not dominant in a way that is unbeatable and clear cut like ST Akuma.

(Full text of the article: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-banned.html)
This is probably the best argument on this thread.
 

MetalPete

MACHKAAAAA!!!!!
Here in venezuela hes, and will remain banned, the char is ok for MK games whit block button, not for a back button block game.
Yes! Injustice, with or without Scorpion, would benefit tremendously if we could use a trigger/button as a block modifier. I've thought that since day 1. Having a button/trigger to modify block gets rid of all the fuzzy bullspit and makes players go on the offensive, instead retreating until they see your character's forward animation start.

My biggest difficulty with Scorpion is his j3. It beats everything from wake-ups to anti-airs. Sure you can try to MB b3 or f3, but then he teleports and you waste meter for nothing. All in all dealing with the teleport isn't so bad since it hits high now, but I completely understand everyone's frustration with the character.

It's really too bad all the dlc characters seem to be nothing but PR stunts.

Batgirl: help push her new 52 and dark reflections novels
Lobo: Considered hero and villain, but maybe a legit fan-bone
Scorpion: Please go buy Injustice MK players
Zod: Cash in on Man of Steel much hmm?
 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
I can agree with the many people who have stated that Scorpion drives people away from the game or makes them not want to watch it.

I say this because I see this happen everytime I play. People are in a Koth room playing the game. Guy steps up to the King or 2 new fighters go at it. Player A bodies player B. Next time player B is up, picks Scorpion, beats a couple people. So other players try to use Scorpion to beat Scorpion. It's nausiating. All the sudden the room will have only 2 or 3 people in it. I go to a new room for a little variety, it soon happens again. I can see it a tourny now. Player A bodies player B. Player B picks Scorpion, wins set.

Can't agree more with the Mopped up Crew.
 

MetalPete

MACHKAAAAA!!!!!
I can agree with the many people who have stated that Scorpion drives people away from the game or makes them not want to watch it.

I say this because I see this happen everytime I play. People are in a Koth room playing the game. Guy steps up to the King or 2 new fighters go at it. Player A bodies player B. Next time player B is up, picks Scorpion, beats a couple people. So other players try to use Scorpion to beat Scorpion. It's nausiating. All the sudden the room will have only 2 or 3 people in it. I go to a new room for a little variety, it soon happens again. I can see it a tourny now. Player A bodies player B. Player B picks Scorpion, wins set.

Can't agree more with the Mopped up Crew.
I'm actually witnessing this in a lobby right now. Challenger was Flash, won, then picked Scorpion...he actually lost though, relied on the tele a little too much.
 
NRS can't hear us over the sound of money filling their coffers.

#1 retail game for the months of April & May yet they balance the game about as well as mugen modders.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I posted this in the ban topic from the front page, I figured I'd paste it here.

Yeah the character can be beaten but IMO it just makes the game stupid. Honestly just because a character can be beaten doesn't mean it doesn't make the game bad. There's plenty of bad fighting games out there with characters that can beat each other.

Characters like killer frost are stupid too but I feel scorpion is just on another level of brain dead nonsense. I didn't vote for him to be banned but I do think the character should play totally different For the sake of the game staying good. Same goes for killer frost... Dumb characters make fighting games bad regardless of if there's a way around them or not.
 

MetalPete

MACHKAAAAA!!!!!
Surprisingly enough I have been beating the last few Scorpion players, but only because Superman can throw objects and the it takes the entire match to win.

edit: I'm finding that Superman's uppercut actually works against the meter-less teleport. It has to be timed PERFECTLY, but it is actually a reliable anti-air against Scorpion; unlike the rest of the cast.
 

BigC

I'm great in my world.
damn what was reo doing i missed phils stream havent been home.
Reo and Rico Suave (i think) played a donation requested match to do a Scorpion mirror match while blindfolded. Once this started, Reo proceded to pull off a full scorpion combo...twice. It was garbage.
 

BigC

I'm great in my world.
I think we need EVO to finally get NRS to notice. If scorpion is banned, NRS might not take notice. They wont watch streams to see it, they watch big tournaments. Let scorpion play a bit at EVO, let NRS notice and get him patched. I have full faith scorp is patched after Evo.
 
I think we need EVO to finally get NRS to notice. If scorpion is banned, NRS might not take notice. They wont watch streams to see it, they watch big tournaments. Let scorpion play a bit at EVO, let NRS notice and get him patched. I have full faith scorp is patched after Evo.
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/jun/24/netherrealm-studios-looking-scorpions-balance-issues-injustice-mentions-process-takes-time/
According to this article, NRS is looking into patching Scorpion.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Reo and Rico Suave (i think) played a donation requested match to do a Scorpion mirror match while blindfolded. Once this started, Reo proceded to pull off a full scorpion combo...twice. It was garbage.
There was an MK player that actually played blind. It isnt that hard.
 
Guys guys guys. There's another easy solution to this. Play Lobo! That standing 3 is amazing. Lobo's chief concern is getting in, and Scorpion pretty much does it for you!

Scorpion still sucks, though.
 
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