How are the villains "weak"?

[Juggs]

I really am part of the problem.

Hey look! We agree again!

jk

 

[SaltShaker]

Mk 9 explained Johnny's power then mkx happened. Turns out his ending was true. Especially if you look and see that Johnny's ancestors worked for/ with raiden in some capacity. It made hella sense to me as to why Raiden would even bother with him. I loveed Johnny's character arc and all. It was good. He's not regular by any means of the imagination. I do think they failed that momentum in mk11 when he didn't have an outburst of energy when they had the chance to show it off in younger johnny.

MK11 failed Cassie more than anyone. Turned her into a God Killer by the end of MKX and the new face of the franchise, only to give her the meh treatment and turn Liu Kang into a literal God. Then likely leaving her off MK12 completely. Screw all that Kitana talk, the real travesty is right there. They set Cassie up as a GOAT but didn't follow through for some reason.

 

[The Hex Man]

MK11 failed Cassie more than anyone. Turned her into a God Killer by the end of MKX and the new face of the franchise, only to give her the meh treatment and turn Liu Kang into a literal God. Then likely leaving her off MK12 completely. Screw all that Kitana talk, the real travesty is right there. They set Cassie up as a GOAT but didn't follow through for some reason.

Yeah I agree. If they would have followed up with what they started. People wouldn't feel so divided I think. They could have still lost but it was literally right there and we all expected it and they didn't do it. So it just soured the mkx story for no reason.

 

[The Hex Man]

Mk characters are super powerful. The writing does fail them more than it should but I think the story and lore of mk is Amazingggg. I love all the characters. Except like HSU. Lol

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Kintaro burned Kabal almost to death in an instant and Stryker was like, "I'll take it from here". Stryker is actually so OP that NRS couldn't risk bringing him back and having him derail the stories.

I do wonder why they don't adjust the "chapter episode" structure for the story canon though. I think that's how we end up either arguing the lore or loop in stuff like GOAT Stryker.

For example say there's a chapter for Liu Kang. You get 5 fights, but the 4 fights are against fake/generic characters or multiple goon characters, and then the 5th fight is against a real character like Noob Saibot. Then you go to the next character.

Feel like it would help the storytelling be easier and not have some characters get super jobbed out like Sheeva/Baraka MK9 or undead heroes always losing etc.

That’s what I’m saying. It’s believable that Scorpion or Sub could plausibly beat each other, or Cage / Ermac, or Kitana / Millena, but holy fuck why would they have Stryker fight someone other than Reptile or Baraka? (Even then he should be no match but still).

They could even do it like say there’s a huge battle scene and (insert hero) has to fight like 10 tarkatans back to back, which are each like a gimped Baraka moveset and HP wise so that we get more varied gameplay, and so Baraka doesn’t always have to look like a piece of shit. Then maybe a showdown with Baraka at the end to show how much stronger he is than a basic Tarkatan. Replace Baraka and Tarkatans with Kung Lao and monks, Sub-Zero or Scorpion and ninjas, Sonya and soldiers, Kano and mercenaries, etc and you get the picture. I thought the MK9 Raiden chapter was the best gameplay wise with the back to back revenant endurance fights, I’d like to see them get more creative like that.

 

[SaltShaker]

That’s what I’m saying. It’s believable that Scorpion or Sub could plausibly beat each other, or Cage / Ermac, or Kitana / Millena, but holy fuck why would they have Stryker fight someone other than Reptile or Baraka? (Even then he should be no match but still).

They could even do it like say there’s a huge battle scene and (insert hero) has to fight like 10 tarkatans back to back, which are each like a gimped Baraka moveset and HP wise so that we get more varied gameplay, and so Baraka doesn’t always have to look like a piece of shit. Then maybe a showdown with Baraka at the end to show how much stronger he is than a basic Tarkatan. Replace Baraka and Tarkatans with Kung Lao and monks, Sub-Zero or Scorpion and ninjas, Sonya and soldiers, Kano and mercenaries, etc and you get the picture. I thought the MK9 Raiden chapter was the best gameplay wise with the back to back revenant endurance fights, I’d like to see them get more creative like that.

Yep, agree 100% on this. Would benefit in so many ways.

 

[Rude]

There's a whole lot of Stryker hate in this thread. I'm glad Espio isn't here to witness this. He would never recover.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

There's a whole lot of Stryker hate in this thread. I'm glad Espio isn't here to witness this. He would never recover.

Like that guy a lot, didn’t know he was a Stryker fan lol

 

[Cicada 5]

I'm not about to replay/rewatch MK11 story right now, but to be very clear here, where in the scene does it say that's why kitana beat him? Because to my memory(and i could be wrong), you're just assuming it was "bad day". And that's fine, but it sure as hell would've been a lot better to actually, you know, build it up in any way, shape, or form, and pay it off as if they had.

The guy has been a major enemy of Kitana since MK2. How much build did they really need?

 

[Eddy Wang]

Like that guy a lot, didn’t know he was a Stryker fan lol

he mained stryker in mk9

 

[Marlow]

This is the most fun I’ve had following a thread in a long time. Good job everybody. Also mokap is the real chosen one, they’re just holding him back until the time is right.

 

[Marlow]

To sum up my feelings on Power Levels:

I get the appeal, and to a certain extent I understand how they can be helpful in trying to ground a story in some kind of structure so that the authors aren't simply playing calvinball. That being said, I don't think power levels, on their own, do much to inform whether writing is good or bad. There are plenty of reasons why Kitana defeating Shao Kahn could be considered bad writing (not enough character development, not enough buildup or plot development, unsatisfying payoff, whatever), but for me power level isn't a good reason.

In a lot of ways, in MK11 Kitana has what would be a fairly common hero's journey. Maybe not in the exact Joseph Campbell model, but it's a fairly common story. Daughter of a tyrant, highly trained assassin, finally overcomes her adopted father and sees the light, and finds a way to vanquish him. It's basically Gamora in the avengers movies, except without the getting thrown off a cliff part. The problem is that with the Character Chapter based storytelling that NRS deploys Kitana doesn't get the screen time needed to actually build a satisfying arc.

As much as I enjoy playing through NRS story modes, I think the form they choose actually works against good story telling. It spreads things out between too many protagonists, forces a lot of meaningless fights just to give everyone their 4-5 encounters, and just really makes things more difficult for the writers.

 

[Juxtapose]

where in the scene does it say that's why kitana beat him?

It does not, it's my interpretation of the scene and it does make sense. Keep in mind it is canon now: in this timeline at least Kitana is capable of beating Shao, though that doesn't mean she'll win every fight. Just like Liu.

he really just essentially one hit the emperor of outworld,

That's because people keep believing Kotal is far tougher and more competent than he really is when the reality is far different.

To sum up my feelings on Power Levels:

I get the appeal, and to a certain extent I understand how they can be helpful in trying to ground a story in some kind of structure so that the authors aren't simply playing calvinball. That being said, I don't think power levels, on their own, do much to inform whether writing is good or bad. There are plenty of reasons why Kitana defeating Shao Kahn could be considered bad writing (not enough character development, not enough buildup or plot development, unsatisfying payoff, whatever), but for me power level isn't a good reason.

In a lot of ways, in MK11 Kitana has what would be a fairly common hero's journey. Maybe not in the exact Joseph Campbell model, but it's a fairly common story. Daughter of a tyrant, highly trained assassin, finally overcomes her adopted father and sees the light, and finds a way to vanquish him. It's basically Gamora in the avengers movies, except without the getting thrown off a cliff part. The problem is that with the Character Chapter based storytelling that NRS deploys Kitana doesn't get the screen time needed to actually build a satisfying arc.

As much as I enjoy playing through NRS story modes, I think the form they choose actually works against good story telling. It spreads things out between too many protagonists, forces a lot of meaningless fights just to give everyone their 4-5 encounters, and just really makes things more difficult for the writers.

Very well said. Bonus points awarded for referencing Calvinball.