FGC Vs MLG: Ball is in play

[9.95]

I kind of understand this from both sides. As someone who has commentated MLG, I saw first hand how awesome their production was, how well and how smoothly they ran the brackets (though they have their own seeding system which doesn't take current FGC placements into account and should have), and of course how amazing the payouts were to the players, which are very well deserved.

On the other hand, MLG is a business, and nobody is in business to LOSE money. This is, first and foremost, the BIGGEST difference between corporate (MLG) and grassroots (EVO/FGC Run events).

This makes sense when you consider the following: Most grassroots tournaments are NOT majors, they are locals of varying size in which most, if not all TO's are happy to only LOSE a small amount of money or break even! They do it for the love of the FGC and almost all are unwilling to turn away any game and it's community from their tournament.

MLG, on the other hand, is obviously looking to turn a large profit. Breaking even or only making a small profit margin makes the venture pointless for them. Due to this, they need to focus on the most supported games, and turn others away. Who does this hurt? It hurts the smaller communities like the VF's and anime communities who wind up feeling left out and ignored. It angers the bigger communities because they feel like (even though we have infighting in the FGC as a whole between communities) they need to unite against a common enemy who is oppressing them and not allowing all games time at their event...and they are right for doing so.

So where is the middle ground? THAT, my friends, is the correct question.

 

[MortySeinfeld]

Shoryuken and the Cannons have long held to the idea that fighting games are a unique attraction among "e-sports and potential e-sports games" in that there is more to presenting and playing them than just the act of doing so. Meaning, there is passion and there is "hype". The Cannons believe that one without the other would be ruinous to the appeal/scene of the fgc, and that what Evolution does is the closest you can get to properly displaying what fighting games and the fgc have to offer. MLG is great at displaying dedication of the players who play games, but I don't think the Evo staff thinks MLG does as good a job at displaying the passion and the hype of the games. We all know the pursuit of financial gain, and big pots are great for the players and for attracting new players, but the money alone won't create passion or hype.

I'm not advocationg "PGC" poverty gaming community. I'm just saying that some people think there's more to presenting the fgc than showcasing them like the traditional e-sport games. We'll have to wait and see.

I have no doubt that the Cannons would definately like to play a role in any greater success that the fgc might generate, but they were doing this stuff when it wasn't popular to do, and I get the sense that even if developers stopped making these games like they did a few years ago that the Cannons would still be running Evolution. I'm not sure I could say the same thing for anyone else. No disresepct to MLG or any other orginization. MLG is a very successful business.

I think it is a bit presumptuous to assume that an MLG, or the equivalent of, would not be able to capture the passion or the essence of the FGC in it's unadulterated form.

When I think about the Daigo parry vs. Justin Wong Evo moment, I attribute that moment to the skill that is being displayed between two great players. Evo happened to be the place where that moment was captured.

I felt that MLG did a very good job with the production and advertising of the Mortal Kombat community when we were on board. It felt different, and I think it was represented very well. I think if you ask any player that was in attendance, they would all feel the same way.

The biggest complaint I saw about the fighting game streams at MLG was with the frequency of the matches being streamed. This is something that can easily be addressed.

I know for a fact that Justin Wong and several other names within the Capcom community would love to have their games in the MLG/eSports circuit. The decision really is up to Capcom.

Has anyone here been watching the ESGN streams that Mike Ross and Gootecks have thrown together? To me, that seems like the closest thing the FGC currently has in terms of production value that would match something like MLG or what you could expect to see on television.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

The only issue here is capcom community is absolutely ridiculously stupid

Otherwise no discussion

 

[AK Black Preon]

Yeah man, I'm ignorant on the matter. I don't entirely know how it all works. Just talking out my ass.

The only issue here is capcom community is absolutely ridiculously stupid

Otherwise no discussion

When I say it the hate rises. Where's the race card when you need it?

 

[Immortal Kombat]

I think we all have a dream of getting the fgc to a tv broadcast level much like the nfl. No one is better equipped at the moment to make that a reality other than MLG. If people went to more tournaments they would quickly realize that even if you win,sometimes that wont even cover your travel expense.
At this point we all play for props. If we really want this community to blow up and become huge we need MASSIVE payouts to tournament winners.
The money alone would grow this community faster than anything.

 

[Posthuman]

It's all about money, the srk/cashcom dudes would lose all their profit it MLG picks up the main fighters since most tournaments are shitty and unorganized like shit and MLG in the other hand...

 

[9.95]

The only issue here is capcom community is absolutely ridiculously stupid

Otherwise no discussion

Not so sure I agree here Brant.

I'll admit that the Capcom community definitely has a lot of bias to non-capcom games overall, but almost all of us who play non-capcom games have all either grown up on SF or played it in some way, shape or form along with our game/company of choice.

That being said, we're dealing with an American company (MLG) supporting an American made game (MK9) with a community that had been previously overlooked by the greater FGC. The Winter C-ships in Columbus that I commentated had an ENORMOUS prize pot, the majority of which was put up by WB themselves. Any good MK player worth his salt should have been there to claim that prize.

I don't see how you can make a blanket statement about the greater FGC (capcom community) and call them stupid when the biggest problem is that Capcom and MLG never came to an agreement on how to bring SF and other Capcom games to MLG. If SF4 (and it's variations over the years) had been at MLG with prize pots over $10k, do you really think that the SF/Capcom players would have stayed away from THAT? I highly doubt it...the money alone would have enticed them to the tournaments.


Honestly, I think the overall Capcom community reaction is more on a level of sour grapes about NOT getting their game(s) there as opposed to the whole "sell out" attitude if Capcom games had been picked up.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

When I say it the hate rises. Where's the race card when you need it?

What does race have ANYTHING to do w this

Leave Jesse Jackson out of this

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Not so sure I agree here Brant.

I'll admit that the Capcom community definitely has a lot of bias to non-capcom games overall, but almost all of us who play non-capcom games have all either grown up on SF or played it in some way, shape or form along with our game/company of choice.

That being said, we're dealing with an American company (MLG) supporting an American made game (MK9) with a community that had been previously overlooked by the greater FGC. The Winter C-ships in Columbus that I commentated had an ENORMOUS prize pot, the majority of which was put up by WB themselves. Any good MK player worth his salt should have been there to claim that prize.

I don't see how you can make a blanket statement about the greater FGC (capcom community) and call them stupid when the biggest problem is that Capcom and MLG never came to an agreement on how to bring SF and other Capcom games to MLG. If SF4 (and it's variations over the years) had been at MLG with prize pots over $10k, do you really think that the SF/Capcom players would have stayed away from THAT? I highly doubt it...the money alone would have enticed them to the tournaments.


Honestly, I think the overall Capcom community reaction is more on a level of sour grapes about NOT getting their game(s) there as opposed to the whole "sell out" attitude if Capcom games had been picked up.

I'm looking at this topic as

"Do we want Recreational League football or NFL"

That's how I see it

 

[THTB]

I'm looking at this topic as

"Do we want Recreational League football or NFL"

That's how I see it

Dude. Atlanta Huthogs?

But on a serious note, having experienced MLG, it still boggles my mind that the FGC as a whole (outside of literally us) is not actually pushing for this.

 

[Posthuman]

Dude. Atlanta Huthogs?

But on a serious note, having experienced MLG, it still boggles my mind that the FGC as a whole (outside of literally us) is not actually pushing for this.

Inj, KI3 and MK10 for MLG!

 

[9.95]

I'm looking at this topic as

"Do we want Recreational League football or NFL"

That's how I see it

I agree, however it's not as simple as "Sure, I'll try out for the NFL and awesome if I'm good enough to play."

I think it's much closer to: "I'll play in the NFL if my Team's legal department signs a contract allowing my brand of football to be played under the NFL license instead of the Arena Football League".

Capcom has to sign a contract with MLG allowing MLG to use the game in it's competitions. This is the big problem. As I said, I highly doubt the capcom players would stay away from $10k prize pots...Capcom has to sign the contract allowing them to play in the Super Bowl instead of the Arena League Championship.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I don't see how you can make a blanket statement about the greater FGC (capcom community) and call them stupid when the biggest problem is that Capcom and MLG never came to an agreement on how to bring SF and other Capcom games to MLG. If SF4 (and it's variations over the years) had been at MLG with prize pots over $10k, do you really think that the SF/Capcom players would have stayed away from THAT? I highly doubt it...the money alone would have enticed them to the tournaments.


Honestly, I think the overall Capcom community reaction is more on a level of sour grapes about NOT getting their game(s) there as opposed to the whole "sell out" attitude if Capcom games had been picked up.

The players would go, but I think Pig was reffering to the community. The vocal part of the community burned eSports organizations (including MLG) to the ground in threads, comments sections, Twitter etc. and would like nothing more than to remain as inacessible and raw as possible in order to keep things the "FGC way".

The top players will go definitely wherever the money is, but the broader Capcom community itself has a way of making a lot of outside parties feel unwanted.

I personally see the advantages both ways and I think that both types of events have their own merit.

What people don't get is that you can still have your FGC events alongside MLG if both parties communicate and the scheduling is coordinated well. So their mistrust turns to raging against anything and everything big-money related.

 

[TotteryManx]

I remember when MK9 was announced as a game for the MLG circuit. This forum was really enthusiastic and embraced MLG with open arms. Then reality set in. On average, how many entrants did MK9 have at MLG events? If I remember correctly, the community didn't even break 100 entrants at one point? Maybe that had something to do with how long the game was out? I don't know, but I do remember hearing and seeing the same names over and over like it was any other tournament. The truth of the matter is, even we did not support MLG like we should have. That includes me. I requested time off to attend one event and opted to do something else instead. Besides a handful of players the only ones that truly supported MLG were the ones that supported MK9's tournament scene while the game was at it's peak. The same people that still frequent this board and give tips and support Injustice...well some.

Apparently MK10 may be in production. If that is the case I would love to see MLG give fighters another go and grab MK10 while it's new and fresh to draw more people out. Kind of like the first EVO for MK9. As far as the Capcom scene is concerned. I've seen people support the idea and I've seen other completely trash it because they believe MLG doesn't want "hype" and for their crowd to get "rowdy." They feel they aren't ready for it, which is completely idiotic to myself. If Capcom were to reach an agreement...well I guarantee the Capcom scene would show up. Even with the regular guys they would have a lot more entrants and would entice stream monsters to attend simply for the loot.

 

[9.95]

What people don't get is that you can still have your FGC events alongside MLG if both parties communicate and the scheduling is coordinated well. So their mistrust turns to raging against anything and everything big-money related.

I think this is key here. MLG, unfortunately, scheduled too many events that conflicted with grassroots events instead of communicating with known TO's in order to work together and not force players to make decisions.


We've dealt with the broader Capcom community being unwelcoming, however I think it's still important to note what I said earlier. When faced with "corporate" exposure, this meant excluding many of the same communities that the Capcom community makes feel unwelcome, even if it's only by making them feel that way by telling them their game is inferior, the greater FGC (mainly Capcom players) pushed for a "unite against a common enemy" attitude so that a corporation won't just cherry pick certain communities, but instead keep the FGC grassroots where all games (even if ridiculed by the greater Capcom Community) were welcome.


I will say this: MLG certainly didn't make a decision based on posts on a forum. To believe that is ludicrous. MLG, and any company for that matter, is smarter than that. MLG didn't get a contract with Capcom, that's why SSF4/UMVC3 weren't there. To turn around and tell the greater FGC that it was their fault is a very brilliant way of making the greater FGC say, "Oh yeah, well what do we have to do now to be picked up by you other than complain about you on forums?" See how that works? It makes the very people you blame ask what they can do to be accepted. Brilliant marketing strategy.

 

[MortySeinfeld]

I think what this really boils down to is this:

- Capcom games/community have not had an opportunity to participate in MLG/eSports events because Capcom themselves have been unwilling to sign the contracts necessary to allow their games at eSports events.

We will never know what the response will be until it happens.

I think a side-effect of MLG participation is that tournament expectations will increase, which would probably result in lower number of entries for grassroots events.

Grassroots events would have to be more conscious to schedule around MLG (not the other way around).

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I will say this: MLG certainly didn't make a decision based on posts on a forum. To believe that is ludicrous. MLG, and any company for that matter, is smarter than that. MLG didn't get a contract with Capcom, that's why SSF4/UMVC3 weren't there. To turn around and tell the greater FGC that it was their fault is a very brilliant way of making the greater FGC say, "Oh yeah, well what do we have to do now to be picked up by you other than complain about you on forums?" See how that works? It makes the very people you blame ask what they can do to be accepted. Brilliant marketing strategy.

By the way, "Sup Phil", hehe.

Yeah, before they made the decision on Smash Bros., MLG reached out a lot on forums and on Twitter to gauge interest for certain things and ask questions. It probably wasn't the only factor, but given that their new MLG Grassroots program is community focused, I'm sure it def. affects their decisions about who to get involved with.

I'm not going to name specific names, but I think a lot of people don't realize that their statements carry weight and people are listening.

 

[9.95]

I think what this really boils down to is this:

- Capcom games/community have not had an opportunity to participate in MLG/eSports events because Capcom themselves have been unwilling to sign the contracts necessary to allow their games at eSports events.

We will never know what the response will be until it happens.

I think a side-effect of MLG participation is that tournament expectations will increase, which would probably result in lower number of entries for grassroots events.

Grassroots events would have to be more conscious to schedule around MLG (not the other way around).

I will say that since MLG, many players have become "spoiled", LOL. By this, I mean they expect everything provided for them. This is, by definition, exactly the OPPOSITE of a grassroots event, and hypocritical of any player to require corporate level expectations out of grassroots level tournaments. It puts an immense amount of unnecessary pressure on TO's to maintain a large amount of up to date setups that cost them an arm and a leg to provide, especially when players are constantly demanding more from them, and are willing to pay less to get it. This is the only "downside" that corporate events have had on grassroots events.

The upside is that many communities have stepped up their game and provide their own setups that are relatively equivalent to those that were provided at MLG events.

 

[MortySeinfeld]

I think this is key here. MLG, unfortunately, scheduled too many events that conflicted with grassroots events instead of communicating with known TO's in order to work together and not force players to make decisions.

MLG shouldn't have to schedule around grassroots majors though. It really should be the other way around.

In terms of scope, especially on the PC gaming side of things, it seems crazy to me that an 'MLG: Columbus' would need to schedule around something like a 'Winter Brawl'.

 

[9.95]

By the way, "Sup Phil", hehe.

Yeah, before they made the decision on Smash Bros., MLG reached out a lot on forums and on Twitter to gauge interest for certain things and ask questions. It probably wasn't the only factor, but given that their new MLG Grassroots program is community focused, I'm sure it def. affects their decisions about who to get involved with.

I'm not going to name specific names, but I think a lot of people don't realize that their statements carry weight and people are listening.

LOL, what's going on?

Yes, I realize that, but keep in mind that is a Grassroots program. That required a different approach than a corporate program, which is what MK was and I'm sure what they wanted for Capcom games.

 

[9.95]

MLG shouldn't have to schedule around grassroots majors though. It really should be the other way around.

In terms of scope, especially on the PC gaming side of things, it seems crazy to me that an 'MLG: Columbus' would need to schedule around something like a 'Winter Brawl'.

I think that at the time, MLG was the "new guy", and the new guy always has to make way for the well known and well respected guys. A Grassroots major may not have had the monetary backing that an MLG event has, but it didn't have the respect at that point. Earn the respect, earn the right to make your own schedule. Once MLG had done that with MK, they started making their own schedule.

I get what you're saying though.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Personally I have plan privately to take FGC to next level w a couple people Reno and others

I truly know what it'll take to truly change anything

Expect a shot at this endeavor within a year or two

 

[RapZiLLa54]

Personally I have plan privately to take FGC to next level w a couple people Reno and others

I truly know what it'll take to truly change anything

Expect a shot at this endeavor within a year or two

I'm waiting

 

[MortySeinfeld]

Personally I have plan privately to take FGC to next level w a couple people Reno and others

I truly know what it'll take to truly change anything

Expect a shot at this endeavor within a year or two

Count me in!

 

[SZSR]

This is pretty much exactly what MLG is doing with Smash Bros. and what their 'Grassroots Program' is supposed to be.

The only conflict I see with MLG is the tournament scheduling. I remember at least one time where an MLG conflicted directly with a major in MK9 days. That all being said, if the lines of communication can open, i'd love to see this issue gone.