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General/Other - Ferra/Torr Ferra & Torr General Discussion Thread

Best novel title for Ferra & Torr?

  • The Little Munchkin and her Faithful Servant.

    Votes: 14 11.4%
  • The Savage Cutie and her Obedient Brute.

    Votes: 18 14.6%
  • The Vicious Dwarf and her Huggy Buddy.

    Votes: 18 14.6%
  • The Small Woman and her Adrift Protector.

    Votes: 9 7.3%
  • The Pygmy Lady and the Hopeless Soul.

    Votes: 12 9.8%
  • Cutie and the Beast

    Votes: 72 58.5%

  • Total voters
    123

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
Right. I thought that's the case, but I didn't see people prefix standing attacks with anything before, so I was a bit confused :eek:. Probably also because in Rising Thunder people refer to specials as s1/s2/s3 and that made me make a connection to specials. Anywho, thanks.
I think it's because the statement looks odd otherwise: "I thought 1 jailed after..." may be unclear what 1 is referring to. FP for front punch is another standard way of saying it.
 

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
So um, does Lackey beat Sub-Zero in any way shape or form?
Lackey has godlike d1 as opposed to Sub-Zero's average d1. Lackey has a Command Grab. All three of Lackey's jump punches are slightly better in my opinion.

Other things depend on variation. I think Lackey has higher damage output than Grandmaster at least, not sure about Unbreakable after patch.
 

WiseTree

Best Of Worst
Lackey has godlike d1 as opposed to Sub-Zero's average d1. Lackey has a Command Grab. All three of Lackey's jump punches are slightly better in my opinion.

Other things depend on variation. I think Lackey has higher damage output than Grandmaster at least, not sure about Unbreakable after patch.
The problem is, at least from my experience, that actually utilising your better tools against grandmaster is difficult because the good ones recognise that you won't be able to get close unless they choose to get close to you. And because of the clone, they can always dictate when that happens, rendering your options useless as long as the clone is up. And with that safety in mind they can do whatever they want in the game.

Even when I mained Lackey, I would always just go to vicious or ruthless when playing against grandmasters. Learning how to beat grandmaster just doesn't seem worth the trouble when the other variations are so good at it.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Lackey has godlike d1 as opposed to Sub-Zero's average d1. Lackey has a Command Grab. All three of Lackey's jump punches are slightly better in my opinion.

Other things depend on variation. I think Lackey has higher damage output than Grandmaster at least, not sure about Unbreakable after patch.
The problem stems from our lack of a good answer against Ice Clone zoning. We really don't have anything safe and have to hold it most of the time.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Sure, I was just listing a few of Lackey's "better" attributes in a vacuum. I thought that was the question.
We actually don't have better damage, believe it or not. Grandmaster can clean out about 35% for one bar and keep clone and corner pressure, we can get about that much with no benefit, maybe 5% more by doing a tight link
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
dumb question, but guys im having problems seeing the Armor on PnG... in Ruthless

i have some questions about Pain and Gain:

What is the ticker time on PnG?
What are the exceptions on the armor?
when does the Armor come out and for how long?
Does the Stack from it get reset by anything like ending a combo or standing normal?
How long does the stack last before it dissipates?
What removes the stack?

how much Damage does level 1/level2/level 3 stack?

how much Armor hits does level 1/level 2/ level 3 stack?

i have always liked ferra torr,i mainly used vicious... and now i am super interested in Ruthless with the new found Armor/Damage boost/RCdashcancel
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
dumb question, but guys im having problems seeing the Armor on PnG... in Ruthless

i have some questions about Pain and Gain:

What is the ticker time on PnG?
What are the exceptions on the armor?
when does the Armor come out and for how long?
Does the Stack from it get reset by anything like ending a combo or standing normal?
How long does the stack last before it dissipates?
What removes the stack?

how much Damage does level 1/level2/level 3 stack?

how much Armor hits does level 1/level 2/ level 3 stack?

i have always liked ferra torr,i mainly used vicious... and now i am super interested in Ruthless with the new found Armor/Damage boost/RCdashcancel
Each stack lasts for 8 seconds, you have to stab yourself again by then in order to go up to the next stack. You can tell if PnG is still active based on whether Torr's forearms are dripping blood. Each stack adds one hit of armor to the recovery frames, so first stab gives you one hit, stab yourself again and that time youll have 2 hits of armor, and the third time gives you 3. In terms of damage, each stack adds 20% damage to that last stack. So level zero you do 100% damage like normal, level 1 you do 120%, level two you do 144%, level three you do 172%

The armor comes out once Ferra Stabs Torr and lasts for the rest of the recovery animation until you can block, however if you cancel out of it immediately then you won't use the armor, so you have to delay the cancel if you want to absorb something and then punish it. Stack doesn't get reset except by time.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Each stack lasts for 8 seconds, you have to stab yourself again by then in order to go up to the next stack. You can tell if PnG is still active based on whether Torr's forearms are dripping blood. Each stack adds one hit of armor to the recovery frames, so first stab gives you one hit, stab yourself again and that time youll have 2 hits of armor, and the third time gives you 3. In terms of damage, each stack adds 20% damage to that last stack. So level zero you do 100% damage like normal, level 1 you do 120%, level two you do 144%, level three you do 172%

The armor comes out once Ferra Stabs Torr and lasts for the rest of the recovery animation until you can block, however if you cancel out of it immediately then you won't use the armor, so you have to delay the cancel if you want to absorb something and then punish it. Stack doesn't get reset except by time.
this is wishful thinking, but could i in theory PNG full combo and end with PNG to get extra Stacks and or Armor? or they just have to be repetitious?
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
this is wishful thinking, but could i in theory PNG full combo and end with PNG to get extra Stacks and or Armor? or they just have to be repetitious?
Nope you can do that now, or you can do two pin n gains in one combo. so let's say it's off a punish:

2xxPnGCxxF2, NJP, F3, 4xxPnG (1 stack in combo and ending in a stack, can dash acnel at the end to stay on top of them until Ferra is back)

or 2xxPnG(RC), F2 NJP B12xxPnG(RC) throw. (2 stacks mid combo, HKD, Ferra stays on back for the ookizeme)
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Nope you can do that now, or you can do two pin n gains in one combo. so let's say it's off a punish:

2xxPnGCxxF2, NJP, F3, 4xxPnG (1 stack in combo and ending in a stack, can dash acnel at the end to stay on top of them until Ferra is back)

or 2xxPnG(RC), F2 NJP B12xxPnG(RC) throw. (2 stacks mid combo, HKD, Ferra stays on back for the ookizeme)
interesting so DRC allows 2 to stack in combo?

bad ass
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
There are also multiple safe set-ups to get an extra stack of PnG off.

For example, doing something like 2xxPnG(rc) f.2 n.j.p b.12xxPnG(RC) d.3 f.32 you can do a third PnG before the opponent even has a real option to wake-up against you.
 

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
this is wishful thinking, but could i in theory PNG full combo and end with PNG to get extra Stacks and or Armor?
Your wording here makes me wonder if you think you get to keep the armor. You don't keep it, it's just present during PnG's Startup and Recovery.

But yes absolutely. You can PnG, combo your opponent, as long as 10 seconds have not passed, you can PnG again and reach stack 2, and get 2 hits of armor this time and a bigger damage buff. You do not have to PnG twice in quick succession, it will stack as long as you activate it while the buff is still present.
 

BMartin

Has no idea
Guys, is Lackey Ferra/Torr supposed to have a hit of armor on "Torr Charge" not ex'd? It also has three hits of armor on the EX version
 

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
Oh ok. I'm new to the character and had seen nothing on it. The three hit were all I had discovered thus far :p
Basically, the only things that really stuff the EX Charge to my knowledge are Jacqui's machine gun and Goro's Punchwalk. Or maybe Punchwalk only beats the regular version, don't remember.

EDIT: I checked. It does have 4 hits. The EX version beats Jacqui's Machine Gun but can lose to Jax's EX Machine Gun, but only if nearly fullscreen. Normal Charge is beaten by normal Punchwalk or EX Punchwalk, Ex Charge loses to EX Punchwalk, but not the normal Punchwalk.
 
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Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
One might say charge is all about timing...

On account fo the built-in projectile invulnerability.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Your wording here makes me wonder if you think you get to keep the armor. You don't keep it, it's just present during PnG's Startup and Recovery.

But yes absolutely. You can PnG, combo your opponent, as long as 10 seconds have not passed, you can PnG again and reach stack 2, and get 2 hits of armor this time and a bigger damage buff. You do not have to PnG twice in quick succession, it will stack as long as you activate it while the buff is still present.
thank you, i think you explained in Ruthless thread that P&G stacks last 10 seconds, whether im hit or combo i hold stacks until timer is out, executing P&G resets timer but holds remaining stacks.

Armor only Stays for Startup-Recovery frames so 52 frames, basically useful for Reversals, or ending combos with PNG to continue pressure..

Chip damage while performing PNG is not worth the trade.
but if you get a hit in and combo its well worth it!

is all of that correct?

thanks again.. ill enjoy using Ferra torr
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
thank you, i think you explained in Ruthless thread that P&G stacks last 10 seconds, whether im hit or combo i hold stacks until timer is out, executing P&G resets timer but holds remaining stacks.

Armor only Stays for Startup-Recovery frames so 52 frames, basically useful for Reversals, or ending combos with PNG to continue pressure..

Chip damage while performing PNG is not worth the trade.
but if you get a hit in and combo its well worth it!

is all of that correct?

thanks again.. ill enjoy using Ferra torr
8 seconds per stack.

Armor stays so long as recovery is active. If cancelled out of, the armor stops. Otherwise, yes you are accurate.

Not necessarily true, but its on the player to make using PnG efficent.
Which yes, you are right on that one, reading the next statement.
 

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
Chip damage while performing PNG is not worth the trade.
but if you get a hit in and combo its well worth it!
It's true that chip is not worth it. One hit in a combo isn't worth it either, because PnG hits you for 5 damage. That means it's on you to prove it's value by doing at least 6 extra damage to your opponent. There are times that in a full combo, I only do 5% extra damage with PnG active than without it active..

Also, I have killed myself on match point with PnG lol.

8 seconds per stack.
It's not 8 seconds, it's definitely 10. Time it yourself. The fight clock is slower than real time.