General/Other - Ferra/Torr Ferra & Torr General Discussion Thread

[Doombawkz]

It's not 8 seconds, it's definitely 10. Time it yourself. The fight clock is slower than real time.

Its 10 now, maybe. It was 8 seconds because you'd lose 1 second arming the buff, and 1 second when trying to rebuff, meaning you effectively got 8 seconds of buff inbetween putting it on and putting it on again.

 

[Beef Supreme]

Is there any reason by Ruthless and Lackey's command grabs have 11 frame startup, but vicious's grab has a 20 frame startup and does less damage?

 

[MadeFromMetal]

Is there any reason by Ruthless and Lackey's command grabs have 11 frame startup, but vicious's grab has a 20 frame startup and does less damage?

Vicious isn't the grappler. It's more meant to be the space control character. At least that was my impression.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

Is there any reason by Ruthless and Lackey's command grabs have 11 frame startup, but vicious's grab has a 20 frame startup and does less damage?

Just the tradeoff for Vicious having Boss Toss. If you ever need a faster Command Grab in Vicious, you can always spend bar for it.

 

[CJKRattlehead]

What hitboxes did they actually improve? I'm still seeing boss toss whiff on crouching opponents and b1 getting low profiled

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

So i'm puting together a guide/ tech video for Ruthless and Vicious, and I found this bug in B232+4, at max range it's a true blockstring, but up close there's a hole between b2 and 3, has this been there the whole time, I've never seen anyone exploit it, or even mentioned here.

not happy about this, the launcher is slow enough as is, really doesn't need some buggy hole randomly showing up

 

[Wetdoba]

Hmmm. I half noticed this too but never went into practice to see what the real deal was. Now that I know, Im not even mad really, I used the overhead as a footsie tool as a meaty Ferra attack more than a real over head so Im usually doing it at max range anyway. Only time Im using the overhead specially as an overhead starter point blank is in the cprner after some serious conditioning to make them not press buttons

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

I mean, it's off the first hit, so most people won't think to try and reversal. It's more the inconsistency that bothers me

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

I use B2 exactly how Wetdoba mentioned. Never at touching distance except as corner oki sometimes.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

after some serious conditioning to make them not press buttons

with what exactly? b121?

 

[Wetdoba]

with what exactly? b121?

Im usually throwing out F2 alot since it is safe which makes them respect the low option. B12 is nuetral on block. Overhead Ferra Toss is plus 6 on block and plus ~11 because F2xxoverhead toss B1212 is a true block string and B1212 is safe as well, or you can end it at B12 to be nuetral again. Also in the corner we can basically stand at that sweet spot where all of our moves like d1, d4, b2, f2, and b121 all hit max range where the majority of characters counter pokes will whiff short with their tiny arms

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

You can just loop B121xx Close Ferra Toss for a frame trap. They need armor to get out if they're stuck in the corner.

Once they start reversing that, Ruthless can mix it up with some mind games by doing B121xx PnG instead to armor reversal their armor reversal for a full combo, depending on whether they can break the PnG armor fast enough.

 

[Asodimazze]

Is Lackey useless after the patch?

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

I don't think Lackey has much on Ruthless. It has a better d1. It can burn meter for bigger combos/punishes, but the thing is, Ruthless doesn't need to burn meter to punish as well or better than Lackey. So if you downplay Lackey's EXdb2 in this comparison, all Lackey has is the d1, which okay, is pretty fantastic. But still, I don't really think the d1 by itself fully compensates.

Ruthless in exchange gets all the benefits of Ferra. Ferra Toss, Bowl Girl, longer range, faster b2, fullscreen NJP, PnG...

But if for whatever reason you aren't interested in Ruthless, Lackey is different enough from Vicious that it has it's points.

 

[Barrogh]

Is there any reason by Ruthless and Lackey's command grabs have 11 frame startup, but vicious's grab has a 20 frame startup and does less damage?

It enables Vicious to tick throw off d1, 1, b1 and maybe a few other normals on block.

 

[Doombawkz]

Lackey has wake-ups, and no gap in b.23 2+4

 

[Tony at Home]

Fooling around with this character, starting out with Lackey cuz... they see me rolling....they hatin'.

What's the preferred way to end a combo? I've been doing (generally after an F2 juggle) b121~ Command Grab, however, this generally means I have to work my way back in. I mean, often this isn't a problem. It feels like I have a solid neutral game. But I'm wondering if it's not better to just end with a close-up HKD where I can be right on top of them and apply oki rather than get that extra 4%?

Also I'm wondering about string pressure. From what I can see, b1212 is really good. I'm not quite confident though that b121~Command Grab will trick blocking opponents into sitting there and taking the throw. So what's a good tick setup for his command throw?

 

[WiseTree]

Fooling around with this character, starting out with Lackey cuz... they see me rolling....they hatin'.

What's the preferred way to end a combo? I've been doing (generally after an F2 juggle) b121~ Command Grab, however, this generally means I have to work my way back in. I mean, often this isn't a problem. It feels like I have a solid neutral game. But I'm wondering if it's not better to just end with a close-up HKD where I can be right on top of them and apply oki rather than get that extra 4%?

Also I'm wondering about string pressure. From what I can see, b1212 is really good. I'm not quite confident though that b121~Command Grab will trick blocking opponents into sitting there and taking the throw. So what's a good tick setup for his command throw?

As far as combo enders go, you can end in Torr charge. Hard knockdown, leaves you jump distance away which gives quite good options for oki. Deals less damage, but I find the space you end up at much better to continue from. There's a thread about it: in http://testyourmight.com/threads/torrvex-the-vortex-type-tech.52419/

 

[Doombawkz]

Fooling around with this character, starting out with Lackey cuz... they see me rolling....they hatin'.

What's the preferred way to end a combo? I've been doing (generally after an F2 juggle) b121~ Command Grab, however, this generally means I have to work my way back in. I mean, often this isn't a problem. It feels like I have a solid neutral game. But I'm wondering if it's not better to just end with a close-up HKD where I can be right on top of them and apply oki rather than get that extra 4%?

Also I'm wondering about string pressure. From what I can see, b1212 is really good. I'm not quite confident though that b121~Command Grab will trick blocking opponents into sitting there and taking the throw. So what's a good tick setup for his command throw?

You can also end in roll, which creates another oki-type situation as well. While the charge is good in certain scenarios, you do have to sacrifice potential corner carry because charge links into only a few moves.
Roll can be done as an ender in most cases, though the side switch is a small bit inconvenient it does provide you with a way to work through your opponent's options with a bit more safety and consistency.

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/roll-applications-and-ideals.51760/

More on that in the topic.

Each has a place and each can serve a bigger purpose in different MUs. You probably would want roll oki more in something like Quan Chi where his wake-ups can't compete with the faster pace, meanwhile against someone like Sonya or Sub, the charge is better because of their ability to poke out of conventional set-ups.

 

[Wetdoba]

Fooling around with this character, starting out with Lackey cuz... they see me rolling....they hatin'.

What's the preferred way to end a combo? I've been doing (generally after an F2 juggle) b121~ Command Grab, however, this generally means I have to work my way back in. I mean, often this isn't a problem. It feels like I have a solid neutral game. But I'm wondering if it's not better to just end with a close-up HKD where I can be right on top of them and apply oki rather than get that extra 4%?

Also I'm wondering about string pressure. From what I can see, b1212 is really good. I'm not quite confident though that b121~Command Grab will trick blocking opponents into sitting there and taking the throw. So what's a good tick setup for his command throw?

B121 is -3 on block and B12 is neutral. After B12, D1 will catch people pressing a button. D4 is slow to start up but it is plus on block which makes D1 a frame trap afterwards, on hit D4 is plus 20 so it gives a free low check or B1212 again. D1 is plus 1- on hit so the command grab gets them pressing stuff after that too. Basically if you condition them to respect the D1 in any frame trap situation it opens up the command grab or D1 tick throw in the same situation. If you think they will jump in anticipation of the grab you can EX torryuken them into a full combo.

As for combo enders, I try to end in charge for no meter for hard knock down oki, roll for quick rise oki, torryuken for corner carry, and command grab in the corner for damage or mid screen if it will kill.

 

[KuralKing]

I got up today with this crazy idea in my head, unfortunately i can't test it out (no ps4 bro), but, when in any other variation that is not lackey , does the BF3 eat projectiles too? like if you time it right, could the projectile hit ferra during the swing to get her in front of torr before running? or is just BossToss and the other moves that ignore projectiles?

 

[MadeFromMetal]

You can also end in roll, which creates another oki-type situation as well. While the charge is good in certain scenarios, you do have to sacrifice potential corner carry because charge links into only a few moves.
Roll can be done as an ender in most cases, though the side switch is a small bit inconvenient it does provide you with a way to work through your opponent's options with a bit more safety and consistency.

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/roll-applications-and-ideals.51760/

More on that in the topic.

Each has a place and each can serve a bigger purpose in different MUs. You probably would want roll oki more in something like Quan Chi where his wake-ups can't compete with the faster pace, meanwhile against someone like Sonya or Sub, the charge is better because of their ability to poke out of conventional set-ups.

I like to end some Lackey combos in 2, f4. It's also a hard knockdown and the frame advantage is decent. The main drawback is it doesn't build meter. It's also acceptable to end in regular Torryuken if you don't want to switch sides.

 

[Jibbjab]

I got up today with this crazy idea in my head, unfortunately i can't test it out (no ps4 bro), but, when in any other variation that is not lackey , does the BF3 eat projectiles too? like if you time it right, could the projectile hit ferra during the swing to get her in front of torr before running? or is just BossToss and the other moves that ignore projectiles?

No. This is the same as NjP. Ferra has a hitbox, but not a hurtbox (correct word?) I guess. So she can no longer absorb projectiles.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

I got up today with this crazy idea in my head, unfortunately i can't test it out (no ps4 bro), but, when in any other variation that is not lackey , does the BF3 eat projectiles too? like if you time it right, could the projectile hit ferra during the swing to get her in front of torr before running? or is just BossToss and the other moves that ignore projectiles?

My understanding is projectile-eating is not a Ferra property, just a Boss Toss property. I might test it just for fun later, but even if this were possible, I wouldn't use it because I don't think it's practical.

 

[MK Led]

My understanding is projectile-eating is not a Ferra property, just a Boss Toss property. I might test it just for fun later, but even if this were possible, I wouldn't use it because I don't think it's practical.

Ferra Toss and Bowl Girl will also eat projectiles if you can intercept them at any point in their trajectory.