Strategy Ermac Key Strategy: Mix-ups

[MKF30]

I think he does need a good, faster overhead and the throw theory I disagree with Neutral only because A. it can be teched out of and B. Everyone has a throw, Ermac however has to rely on it more then other charactersw because of his lack of tools up close.(overheads)

 

[YougotCaged1]

Thats a decent argument, but I still think he doesn't need it. Yes the throw can be teched but then that resets the situation and your at tkp zoning range again! I don't think he needs much up close because I feel he is mainly a zoning character that can also be played offensively, but not very well. That makes him balanced imo.

 

[Metzos]

Thats a decent argument, but I still think he doesn't need it. Yes the throw can be teched but then that resets the situation and your at tkp zoning range again! I don't think he needs much up close because I feel he is mainly a zoning character that can also be played offensively, but not very well. That makes him balanced imo.

Ok then i m gonna give you 2 examples so you can feel my pain.

1st: Try and zone Raiden.
2nd:Try and zone Reptile.

When you do that let me know how you feel about the mix-ups Ermac has up close cause thats how you deal with those two characters.

 

[greeneless]

Thats a decent argument, but I still think he doesn't need it. Yes the throw can be teched but then that resets the situation and your at tkp zoning range again! I don't think he needs much up close because I feel he is mainly a zoning character that can also be played offensively, but not very well. That makes him balanced imo.

TKP zoning range after a teched throw? He'd be at like sweeping distance.. thats the only unsafe range for tkp..

 

[MKF30]

Like Metzo stated, it doesn't work against Raiden, Reptile or Mileena as they can dash, teleport immediately after a throw tech since it pushes you back...

I still think Rep's dash range at mid is bullshit, he's not freaking Kabal lol...

This is why throwing alone for Ermac after blocked strings don't work against everyone that well. He needs an overhead, fast one that's safe.

 

[YougotCaged1]

You guys have good arguments, and after a etched throw at least you get some distance. Yes it's difficult to zone reptile and raiden, but not impossible. Ermac does have to keep them close which is why the f4 reset works wonders. However, I feel those matchups are both bad matchups and for reptile you mostly have to work your way around the zoning to start your own. Try to get into max or a little before max range to force push him out of his force balls and dash. For Raiden, I don't even know lol. While the faster overhead would be useful, I don't think he needs it. How wouldn't help him besides giving him a low/mid mixup? Even if it hits it only pushes to sweep distance where the enemy can wakeup and tkp is punishable.

 

[Metzos]

You guys have good arguments, and after a etched throw at least you get some distance. Yes it's difficult to zone reptile and raiden, but not impossible. Ermac does have to keep them close which is why the f4 reset works wonders. However, I feel those matchups are both bad matchups and for reptile you mostly have to work your way around the zoning to start your own. Try to get into max or a little before max range to force push him out of his force balls and dash. For Raiden, I don't even know lol. While the faster overhead would be useful, I don't think he needs it. How wouldn't help him besides giving him a low/mid mixup? Even if it hits it only pushes to sweep distance where the enemy can wakeup and tkp is punishable.

1st of all he needs a faster overhead for the mix-ups.When Ermac approaches his opponent, all he has to do is crouch and punish 31 with uppercut and F4 with uppercut or a full combo.The faster overhead will force the opponent to guess all the time cause then Ermac will have a much better advantage up close(F4 B2 15% ,31 lift combo 38%, dont know how much this does post patch cause the patch isnt out in EU yet.... overhead, throw=fight reset in favor to Ermac.)
2nd even if the overhead hit confirms its still in Ermac's favor cause he can bait Reptile to dash and punish him with 31 lift combo again to a F4 reset.My point is that with the faster overhead the baits will be easier to do and that will greatly improve (not in an OP way ofc) Ermac's close game.You dont even have to fuzzy to block his overhead and that shows just how slow it is.

 

[smokey]

Have found a SLIGHT bonus to his overhead (despite it being almost completely trash and useless) i play smoke, so i poke with D1,D3,D4 alot as do many characters. was playing an ermac, all be it a terrible one, but he KEPT using the overhead to stop poking. Its hitbox raises up off the ground, think mileena, and will hop over pokes. Obviously once he did it the first time i was like wow somebody found a use for that, and then proceeded to bait it with poke spam to fast starters. BUT every little helps, and information is power so make of it what you will!

 

[Metzos]

Have found a SLIGHT bonus to his overhead (despite it being almost completely trash and useless) i play smoke, so i poke with D1,D3,D4 alot as do many characters. was playing an ermac, all be it a terrible one, but he KEPT using the overhead to stop poking. Its hitbox raises up off the ground, think mileena, and will hop over pokes. Obviously once he did it the first time i was like wow somebody found a use for that, and then proceeded to bait it with poke spam to fast starters. BUT every little helps, and information is power so make of it what you will!

Yeah its a low crush move.Other than that its mostly useless cause its damn slow.Thats why we are asking for it to be a bit faster.

 

[smokey]

Yeah it would be pretty good if it was faster, although how F4 works wonders on people who cant block i feel overhead with a bit more speed coupled with F4 would be able to shut people down, especially if they try to poke you out, and once they know they cant poke then you have a much better time at Push range and characters which strive from pokes would have a worse match up against ermac. All of that would be balanced though, people complain about ermac having easy combos have never tried to connect them onto anyone with half a brain because you really have to work hard at them, add some tech and luck, maybe a few B2s, and ermac is so far from easy to play that at this point in the game he really needs to have more stable options. Look at other characters that can open you up from a low or overhead string and convert to combo damage.

 

[Metzos]

Yeah it would be pretty good if it was faster, although how F4 works wonders on people who cant block i feel overhead with a bit more speed coupled with F4 would be able to shut people down, especially if they try to poke you out, and once they know they cant poke then you have a much better time at Push range and characters which strive from pokes would have a worse match up against ermac. All of that would be balanced though, people complain about ermac having easy combos have never tried to connect them onto anyone with half a brain because you really have to work hard at them, add some tech and luck, maybe a few B2s, and ermac is so far from easy to play that at this point in the game he really needs to have more stable options. Look at other characters that can open you up from a low or overhead string and convert to combo damage.

True plus his normals are soo damn slow (except his 31 string) which is really hard to actually land a combo and rely more on a zoning type game.Thats why his combos are soo dmging.Cause its rare for an Ermac player to approach his opponent to deal dmg because he can zone him with his TKP and his projectiles.Actually no his combos are not that hard to do except from some really tricky ones in the corner and 1 maybe 2 at most midscreen.

 

[smokey]

TBH you can play a stable ermac by learning like 1 corner, 1 midscreen (with f4 ender or tkp ender for corner carry) and then learn a fast punisher. Other than that you can just sit back and wait for your opponent to start your combos with stupid things, i mean even at high level play you get blocked teleports or divekicks or an unsafe string, and when your trying so hard to get in on ermac you tend to be more reckless. After like 2 or 3 force pushes + fireballs + a bit of chip they arent going to be able to live through more than 2 good combos, especially if they are in the corner, its just whether or not they can get in on you and break apart your zoning before you are able to get those chances, because its harder to create your own chances than it is to wait for punishable shit.

 

[MKF30]

1st of all he needs a faster overhead for the mix-ups.When Ermac approaches his opponent, all he has to do is crouch and punish 31 with uppercut and F4 with uppercut or a full combo.The faster overhead will force the opponent to guess all the time cause then Ermac will have a much better advantage up close(F4 B2 15% ,31 lift combo 38%, dont know how much this does post patch cause the patch isnt out in EU yet.... overhead, throw=fight reset in favor to Ermac.)
2nd even if the overhead hit confirms its still in Ermac's favor cause he can bait Reptile to dash and punish him with 31 lift combo again to a F4 reset.My point is that with the faster overhead the baits will be easier to do and that will greatly improve (not in an OP way ofc) Ermac's close game.You dont even have to fuzzy to block his overhead and that shows just how slow it is.

Pretty much ^, and honestly yougotcaged... while Ermac is one of the best zoners in the game he's a mid tier while Reptile, Raiden etc are top tier making it very difficult for him to outzone and outplay Reptiles, Raiden's etc. It's possible? Sure, but beyond hard as hell....which is why those match ups are heavily against Ermac. He needs a fast, smooth overhead up close that's safe. This would just make him a little better, but not big enough buff to make Ermac "top tier or God Tier"

@Smokey, I also as both an Ermac and Smoke player find that Ermac doesn't really need the overhead vs. Smoke of all people lol. Smoke can just teleport, that's like one of the slowest normal moves vs. one of the fastest specials in the game lol. But that aside, Ermac punishes Smoke on blocked teleports badly

Which is why

 

[Metzos]

Pretty much ^, and honestly yougotcaged... while Ermac is one of the best zoners in the game he's a mid tier while Reptile, Raiden etc are top tier making it very difficult for him to outzone and outplay Reptiles, Raiden's etc. It's possible? Sure, but beyond hard as hell....which is why those match ups are heavily against Ermac. He needs a fast, smooth overhead up close that's safe. This would just make him a little better, but not big enough buff to make Ermac "top tier or God Tier"

@Smokey, I also as both an Ermac and Smoke player find that Ermac doesn't really need the overhead vs. Smoke of all people lol. Smoke can just teleport, that's like one of the slowest normal moves vs. one of the fastest specials in the game lol. But that aside, Ermac punishes Smoke on blocked teleports badly

Which is why

He meant using the overhead to counter Smoke's d1,3,4 pokes on reaction which isnt really difficult to do.Ermac's TKP beats all of Smoke's special moves on reaction.

 

[Error]

3, 3 for overhead!

 

[Ermaculate_Slim]

nah 1,2,1 high, low,high make it happen baby

 

[MKF30]

He meant using the overhead to counter Smoke's d1,3,4 pokes on reaction which isnt really difficult to do.Ermac's TKP beats all of Smoke's special moves on reaction.

Oh really? lol I hardly even get poked by Smokes in general, I just as you said use his TKP or simply anticipate his teleport and punish him. I use Smoke myself, I have to say most Smokes play similar but I love to turtle, be invisible, it takes people so off guard lol

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Question 1: How do you guys feel about whiffing Teleport Punch like Mileena's whiffed kicks to get inside on a downed opponent?
Question 2: Is there a worse matchup for him than Noob (God, how playing Ermac makes me HATE Noob...), or is that as bad as it gets? It seems like he doesn't really have any unbearably bad matchups otherwise, but I'm probably wrong.
I only recently started giving him a try, and I wanna study up as much as I can to make his kung fu strong.
I feel like the gorilla from Zookeeper, and Ermac is T.G.I.Friday's, cuz you guys make him sound/look fucking awesome.

 

[KamikazeJD]

Question 1: How do you guys feel about whiffing Teleport Punch like Mileena's whiffed kicks to get inside on a downed opponent?
Question 2: Is there a worse matchup for him than Noob (God, how playing Ermac makes me HATE Noob...), or is that as bad as it gets? It seems like he doesn't really have any unbearably bad matchups otherwise, but I'm probably wrong.
I only recently started giving him a try, and I wanna study up as much as I can to make his kung fu strong.
I feel like the gorilla from Zookeeper, and Ermac is T.G.I.Friday's, cuz you guys make him sound/look fucking awesome.

Ok my opinion will be different than some other guys I believe so take it wit a grain of salt..
1. Ive seen this tech and heard about it and have used it. I dont like it honestly but it is good for mixups and getting in on people, it builds a little meter too. I dont like it because even tho I am more of an 'in your face' kinda ermac fighter I feel it puts me in a bad position. I hate dealing with wakeup attacks so ill wait mid screen so I can react accordingly.
2. I used to hate playing against noob. He feels like such an anti ermac. But ive played with some monster noobs kamikaze_player and reedoms and I developed a general strategy of pretty much staying mid screen to close and block alot.. Wakeup teleports are discouraged in genetal play but most noobs spam running man and you will catch them. Noob outzones you tho, so dont even try.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Ok my opinion will be different than some other guys I believe so take it wit a grain of salt..
1. Ive seen this tech and heard about it and have used it. I dont like it honestly but it is good for mixups and getting in on people, it builds a little meter too. I dont like it because even tho I am more of an 'in your face' kinda ermac fighter I feel it puts me in a bad position. I hate dealing with wakeup attacks so ill wait mid screen so I can react accordingly.
2. I used to hate playing against noob. He feels like such an anti ermac. But ive played with some monster noobs kamikaze_player and reedoms and I developed a general strategy of pretty much staying mid screen to close and block alot.. Wakeup teleports are discouraged in genetal play but most noobs spam running man and you will catch them. Noob outzones you tho, so dont even try.

Solid. So that's most likely a no on whiffpunch...good thing I asked, lol.
I figure if anything, Noob will be the one I spend the most time training/practicing with in the Dojo, just on the principle of "If I can get around his arch-enemy, it'll make getting around the rest of them a little less mentally draining," his jump-ins and midscreen options are too good to pass up.

 

[KamikazeJD]

Lol try it out first., it might work better for your style of play.. And yea once u get good against noob ull learn alot of patience.

 

[zaf]

1- i do use this tech. Not as much recently because wake up attacks seem to get you before you can block. I mainly did it for a grab afterwards. Never hurts to see how anyone responds to this.
2- kami is right, patience is key. Just remember you do way more damage then he does, nothing wrong with dash blocking to get in on him.

 

[QjonPL]

Ad #1 after knd TelePorting when you teach your opp that grabbing tech, so he decides to stay down longer you can use d3 to force them into crouch block, then immediately dash&grab : )
Or simply teleport, crossover jump to mess their wakeup controls.

 

[STORMS]

Looks like Ermac will be seeing "new" tech at NECXII as well... [MENTION=3]Krayzie[/MENTION] showed me something last night that I don't think anyone else is doing right now... of course I'm not spoiling the surprise though... you'll have to wait to look for it on stream.

Let's just say it opens up a lot of options.

 

[RedSpectre221]

Ive come to favor the jip 2 then then grab if blocking or if not blocking the 321 jip2 work great and leaves the opponet guessing but in the end they will still take damage.