Command Grab - Bomb Trap PATCH?

[nubi]

As it stands right now (version 1.01), the command grab is nearly impossible to tech out of. So yes, a +50% combo off a command grab is pretty cheap imo. If they were to make the throw much easier to tech out of, I would be ok with that. Again, just my opinion, not saying I'm right. Keep in mind I'm a Cyrax user

if you get over 50% your opponent is not blocking after the command grab, you can tech out fairly reliably by mashing both punches when you see him go for the grab or you can just crouch and counter it, compare that to say someone like liu kang who can do 50% of a jump in or other high damage combos of a low or overhead, id be fine with just a larger tech window or hell even a damage nerf but removing it is just stupid.
also theres no such thing as cheap just laziness, did you see the PDP stream cyrax got blown up by the high level players like JWong do you think he cryed cheap, no of course not he just kept cyrax out didn't let him land that command grab, step up your game and learn to deal with the "cheap" stuff

 

[Sultani]

said it before and i'll say it again.

all they had to do was fix the frames for teching the CG, which they are already doing, so the point about it being near impossible *currently* to tech the grab can be completely ignored.

If people still have an issue with the fact that it resets the scaler and that 35% is too much (pfff), just make the damage scaling reset timer a longer duration than the duration of the stun you get post CG. That way the bomb trap would work, but you'd have to get off a CG that didn't get teched and the damage scaling wouldn't reset.

That would have been by far the best decision.

The gripe isnt so much that Cyrax can't win without it, it's that he's a boring character to play now that has fairly low damage combos aside from ones that require meter use.

unfair my ass. Liu Kang juggles you four times by pressing 3 buttons. Kung Lao is almost unpunishable. Ermac does ~30% with 4 hits (2 of which aren't breakable). Sub Zero can still reset his scaler.

For those of you calling it a cheap tactic, the combo has so many counters in place it's ridiculous. More so than a simple ice ball. omg ice ball is cheap wtf hax nerf please qq. sigh...

 

[Eazail]

if you get over 50% your opponent is not blocking after the command grab, you can tech out fairly reliably by mashing both punches when you see him go for the grab or you can just crouch and counter it, compare that to say someone like liu kang who can do 50% of a jump in or other high damage combos of a low or overhead, id be fine with just a larger tech window or hell even a damage nerf but removing it is just stupid.
also theres no such thing as cheap just laziness, did you see the PDP stream cyrax got blown up by the high level players like JWong do you think he cryed cheap, no of course not he just kept cyrax out didn't let him land that command grab, step up your game and learn to deal with the "cheap" stuff

My BnB Cyrax Bomb trap combo does 52%. If I catch you in a net, I can command grab (13%), 2, 2 follow up (blocked = 4%), then the bomb explodes leading to 35% more damage when the combo is over. It was used against me and I learned it after suffering from it lol. After bomb explodes, do nj pop up followed by b2 then 3,3 net. You then teleport for the reset of damage scaling and finish with a 3,3 spin kick. This is what I'm currently able to do in the version of the game I still have.

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with this if the damage from this combo was slightly lower, like around 40-45% though. I think if the damage was lower on the bomb trap combos, it would definetly be more balanced. Again, my opinion, not saying im right

 

[nubi]

that combo adds up to 35% if the opponent blocks +13% from the command throw so 48% total if the opponent blocks after the command throw, the only way your going to get higher than that is if you use x-ray. Also the net reset glitch only works if your opponent is on the ground not in the air.
since people are complaining about the damage i don't know why they didn't just make the command throw do something like 4% or even no damage at all so we could use it for set ups still but the trap would be weaker, instead they just remove the trap and make the command throw usless.... fail

 

[Sultani]

Subzero: that's pretty much the BnB that everyone who's executing the bomb trap uses. Don't you think though that if your CG could be teched appropriately like any other throw, that it would be so hard to get it off that you should be rewarded for doing it?

The only thing that's "cheap" about it right now is that the command grab is bugged making it a prety much guaranteed bomb trap from being netted.

Nubi: He's calling it 52% because the 4% dama from the blocked BP, BP chips don't get counted into the damage done from the hits. So it's really 13% +4% +35% = 52%

 

[nubi]

Nubi: He's calling it 52% because the 4% dama from the blocked BP, BP chips don't get counted into the damage done from the hits. So it's really 13% +4% +35% = 52%

oh ok my bad, still tweaking the command throws tech window/damage was all that was needed

 

[Eazail]

oh ok my bad, still tweaking the command throws tech window/damage was all that was needed

I agree with this. If they were to do only this and leave the bomb trap the way it is id be content. Again, I use Cyrax and want him to be good.

 

[xZEPPELIx]

I agree with this. If they were to do only this and leave the bomb trap the way it is id be content. Again, I use Cyrax and want him to be good.

14 frame startup 10 break window = 24 frames to see and break it. As time goes on I see the grab being less useful as people start getting better seeing and reacting to it.

 

[cgerrr]

Can someone confirm: is Bomb trap gone and how many frames is CG tech window now (netted and bare)?

 

[Sequel]

Bomb Trap is NOT gone.

Zeppeli is right, the more you get used to seeing it the more obvious it will be to tech out of it. Even some players online have tech'd out of my command grab and that's with lag. I don't see why anyone is bitching to be honest.

 

[xZEPPELIx]

Bomb Trap is NOT gone.

Zeppeli is right, the more you get used to seeing it the more obvious it will be to tech out of it. Even some players online have tech'd out of my command grab and that's with lag. I don't see why anyone is bitching to be honest.

This is why I think i would rather trade the bomb trap for a mix-up but keep the break window small. No guaranteed damage afterward but a good mix-up and a hard to break out of grab.

 

[Sequel]

Breaking the command grab is really easy now even in Net. You'll be lucky to score a bomb trap now. Oh well.

 

[Dark_Rob]

Breaking the command grab is really easy now even in Net. You'll be lucky to score a bomb trap now. Oh well.

Sad. Im not even a Cyrax player, but I thought the bomb trap was a pretty good and unique tool for him. It made him really interesting to fight to,trying to avoid it. There were a million ways NRS could have handled this without making it totally useless. The tech window was 2 frames originally? and its 10 now? They could have tried 5 frames. Or they could have left the tech window the same and added more scaling to it. Im always more in favor of changing damage before changing move properties because at least the character still plays the same.This is why I say you should always start with small changes first and then see what the players do with it. You might find the small change was more than sufficient.

 

[Sequel]

Yeah that was my suggestion. Widen the tech window by about 3 frames to make it 5... but they went and made it 10 like every throw in the game minus having to guess 50/50. So as it stands, Cyrax's command grab is the easiest throw to tech out of in the entire game.

Good job, NRS!!!!

P.S - I'm not a Cyrax player either.

 

[Eazail]

Yeah that was my suggestion. Widen the tech window by about 3 frames to make it 5... but they went and made it 10 like every throw in the game minus having to guess 50/50. So as it stands, Cyrax's command grab is the easiest throw to tech out of in the entire game.

Good job, NRS!!!!

P.S - I'm not a Cyrax player either.

But if the throw is not teched, it leads to at least triple the damage of a regular throw

 

[Sequel]

But if the throw is not teched, it leads to at least triple the damage of a regular throw

With Cyrax's command grab you only need to press 1 (FP) to tech it. With regular throws it's a 50/50 guess. Back throw = 1, Front throw = 2. With a smaller window teching Cyrax's command grab would be tougher but still doable since you don't have to guess. All you have to do is press ONE BUTTON. And it's the same ONE BUTTON every time.

How much easier do you want it to get? The 10frame window nerf made it almost impossible for Cyrax to land a command grab, considering all you have to do is press one button and you have a huge window to do so.

I'm not saying that it should have stayed at 2frames but maybe only nerf it to 5frames....but 10? Really? ...really now?

 

[nubi]

you can actually use ether punches to tech out of it so mashing or piano-ing them both will increase your chance of escape, but eh at least its still in i guess better than getting removed altogether i supose : /

 

[Sequel]

you can actually use ether punches to tech out of it so mashing or piano-ing them both will increase your chance of escape, but eh at least its still in i guess better than getting removed altogether i supose : /

Even worse.

 

[cgerrr]

All you have to do is press ONE BUTTON. And it's the same ONE BUTTON every time.

What about the tech window when you're netted? Is it smaller?

And technically you need actually TWO buttons to escape CG: / AND button release. So in the heat of battle 10 frame window isn't that big, though 8 frame for CG would be sufficient.

Could someone confirm is the bomb trap still possible after back (not sure about notation)? If it's still there - why all the commotion: it's guaranteed after net, you just need a little more work in the lab to get your timing and range right.

P.s. It's understandable that people want everything without putting much work into it, but really - your win button changed to another win button which actually requires some work and people is like "Cyrax is murdered by the hotfix!!!!!111!!". Wow, so much bias.

 

[Aaron Brooks]

It's still a total hit/throw 50/50 after a jump punch as it is with any character. It's just a mix-up now, rather than free damage after you put somebody in block stun.

 

[nubi]

Could someone confirm is the bomb trap still possible after back (not sure about notation)? If it's still there - why all the commotion: it's guaranteed after net, you just need a little more work in the lab to get your timing and range right.

you mean the cancel into short bomb after the first hit of tooth and nail (f+2) yes thats still there. and while its great from a net its pretty useless naked, cyrax has no low starter combo and has trouble applying pressure at close range, the CG helps with both these problems you don't want to let cyrax get in and land the bomb trap so the threat is always there allowing cyrax to use other options.
Its not a win button, learn to keep your opponent out and dont waist your meter

 

[Sequel]

What about the tech window when you're netted? Is it smaller?

And technically you need actually TWO buttons to escape CG: / AND button release. So in the heat of battle 10 frame window isn't that big, though 8 frame for CG would be sufficient.

Could someone confirm is the bomb trap still possible after back (not sure about notation)? If it's still there - why all the commotion: it's guaranteed after net, you just need a little more work in the lab to get your timing and range right.

P.s. It's understandable that people want everything without putting much work into it, but really - your win button changed to another win button which actually requires some work and people is like "Cyrax is murdered by the hotfix!!!!!111!!". Wow, so much bias.

Command grab gets broken online with lag. That should tell you something. Keep in mind, I am playing COMPETENT players. 5-7 frame window would have suffice. 10 is just stupid.

Oh and bias? Uhh, I don't play Cyrax bud. I barely picked him up two days ago and it was glaringly obvious that his command grab is now shit.

 

[Loot]

Agreed, his bomb trap is now laughable as you can tech his comannd grab on reaction now. NRS needs to do what Namco did and hire tourney level players to advise them on balancing the game.

 

[Sultani]

It is so stupid to say that it's a simple throw that does 40% damage if it isn't teched. Let's just pretend that the combo afterwards isn't there and that it's automatic and unbreakable.

Ermac's BnB that I use does 43% and it's retarded easy (not to mention it has less breakable hits than Cyrax's does). It starts with a BP. Your argument would be like if I said, "Ermac has a BP that does 43% damage when other BP hits don't therefore Ermac's BP needs to be nerfed" You're trying to take a 15 hit combo and just call it a throw... come on...
Cyrax's combo starts with a throw that's unique to him. Other peoples' juggle combos start with something else. That needs explanation? really?

Anyone who knows about the bobm trap will tech it every single time from being netted. If you play Cyrax and you get someone with a grab that they're not expecting and pull off the combo without netting the person first, that's fine. Even in that situation the grab is easily techable because of the fixed window. Teh combo still works, it's just not so damn easy to start.

Changing the tech window to the size of other throws is the right decision and the only thing that needed fixing.

 

[johnwayne]

Ok so....

a.) Did the patch hit yet?

b.) Has the recovery of the CG been changed to make it no longer unblockable?

c.) Are we no longer able to punish blocked specials with dash up CG now too?


Ugh.