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Match-up Discussion Becoming the Pope - The General Zod Matchup Thread

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Any input on my last post about the green arrow match? Do you guys agree that if it's not a bad stage for arrow that the match is around 6-4 zod? I don't think its a flat 7-3 match but I can be wrong.

Most of my experience is vs Dave but I have played agains Johnny 2d as well.

AK Pig Of The Hut
General M2Dave
Johnny2d
 
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M2Dave

Zoning Master
Any input on my last post about the green arrow match? Do you guys agree that if it's not a bad stage for arrow that the match is around 6-4 zod? I don't think its a flat 7-3 match but I can be wrong.

Most of my experience is vs Dave but I have played agains Johnny 2d as well.

AK Pig Of The Hut
General M2Dave
Johnny2d
I agree.

Green Arrow's biggest flaw is that his mid screen damage output is insignificant unless he has access to an ice arrow.
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
I agree.

Green Arrow's biggest flaw is that his mid screen damage output is insignificant unless he has access to an ice arrow.
Even with ice arrow it is pretty poor. He can get good damage off of a j.3 and 2 bars though: 44% without ice arrow.
 

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
Honestly, I always thought GA was pretty bad, especially rush GA. He doesn't have the damage to go full screen projectile and I feel that's his best spot.
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
Honestly, I always thought GA was pretty bad, especially rush GA. He doesn't have the damage to go full screen projectile and I feel that's his best spot.
The life of GA:
-Chris G does well - People say GA is high tier
-Other GA players tell people "It's Chris G that is a great player! GA is actually mid tier" - They are called downplayers
-NRS nerfs GA
-Chris G continues to do well, though use Black Adam for his hard matchups - People say GA is still high tier
-Other GA players say "Most people just don't know how to defend against GA, and they don't even try to escape super resets! GA is mid/low tier" They are called downplayers
-NRS nerfs GA more
-People stop playing GA - Chris G uses him to decent effect once in a while, but nothing more
-NRS buffs GA slightly but also buffs a lot of other chars
-Here we are today - Reo says MMH vs GA is a 8-2 matchup and claims GA has worse offense than Cyborg

I believe GA is low mid tier atm.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Arrow can compete with a good amount of the cast on certain stages. He has a lot of 4-6 matches imo but loses badly to a few very common characters. His mid screen damage with meter is high but it requires MB cancels.

I think up close arrow is better than people are saying but mostly in the corner. His f2d13 xx arrow leaves him at a great distance to bait whiffed normals for big damage. This is hurt by characters who hold onto their meter and push block a lot though. Also meter burn slide is a good way to put people right into the corner. It works pretty well as a footsie tool and a low option. My problem is actually doing it on the fly with alternate controls. They really need to get rid of the half circle motions and switch them to back, forward.

The problem I have with ice arrow at mid screen is that it limits arrows options to actually get in. Up close it's great because you do get a good 50/50 with his f2d13 string and is great for pushing to the corner. Normal arrows at mid screen have become a huge part of my game and I obviously cant use them if I have ice equipped.
 

Johnny2d

Xbl: Johnny2Die
Arrow can compete with a good amount of the cast on certain stages. He has a lot of 4-6 matches imo but loses badly to a few very common characters. His mid screen damage with meter is high but it requires MB cancels.

I think up close arrow is better than people are saying but mostly in the corner. His f2d13 xx arrow leaves him at a great distance to bait whiffed normals for big damage. This is hurt by characters who hold onto their meter and push block a lot though. Also meter burn slide is a good way to put people right into the corner. It works pretty well as a footsie tool and a low option. My problem is actually doing it on the fly with alternate controls. They really need to get rid of the half circle motions and switch them to back, forward.

The problem I have with ice arrow at mid screen is that it limits arrows options to actually get in. Up close it's great because you do get a good 50/50 with his f2d13 string and is great for pushing to the corner. Normal arrows at mid screen have become a huge part of my game and I obviously cant use them if I have ice equipped.
I think that with two players playing at the highest level it would be 6-4 zod. When I play you Scoot it looks like 5-5 because you are good and I am improving (fancy way of saying flawed). I don't think it would be as bad as 7-3, but a Zod player that is able to play the character at his max potential would have the advantage against even the best Green Arrows, this just coming from my own feelings playing the match while understanding I am no where near as good as top players.
 

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
The thing about GA though is he's one of what, two characters that fire from the crouching position. He goes under Side Arm pressure and he can shoot arrows pretty freely when stocked. Zod has to respect his range game. Not get screwed by it though. But I find GA's runaway is underrated.
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
AK Pig Of The Hut is in pools vs Revolver. I dunno about you, but I want Pig to be in winners of that pool. Does anyone know any Sex Luthors out there? Opinions, tools, matchups?
Not an easy match, but zods favor? lots of sidearm + iazbs. I would also urge Pig to reverse his wake up charge in the corner for safe pressure. I don't know a whole lot about the matchup with Zod tbh. I am sure Pig is prepared;)
 

Paul the Octopus

Slow Starter
What is the consensus on the zod-aquaman matchup? Is it 5-5? I've done quite a bit of searching but have had trouble finding any info on this, outside of one brief discussion back in July when zod just came out.
 

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
What is the consensus on the zod-aquaman matchup? Is it 5-5? I've done quite a bit of searching but have had trouble finding any info on this, outside of one brief discussion back in July when zod just came out.
Aquaman trait stops MB Ground Blast. 6-4 most combos fail. Also FTD craps all over most trait summon attempts
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Aquaman trait stops MB Ground Blast. 6-4 most combos fail. Also FTD craps all over most trait summon attempts
Doesn't matter about the FTD to punish summons, since Zod won't be summoning outside of his most reliable summon setups. And even if MB ground blast doesn't hit due to Aqua trait, it's still a free summon on block.
 

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
Doesn't matter about the FTD to punish summons, since Zod won't be summoning outside of his most reliable summon setups. And even if MB ground blast doesn't hit due to Aqua trait, it's still a free summon on block.
I disagree. I feel that Zod is often able to get away with murder a lot when it comes to trait summons in regular matchups. Most characters have to spend meter at most, or can just flatout not hit you. I think Zod has similar issues with the likes of Harley and a little of Nightwing, but unlike those two, Aquaman can just dominate you up close, where it's more even with the others.

Free summon or not, it's a crummy consolation prize compared to if the full thing hit leading to 'high damage +setup/summon'. I'm also not sure if that is as free as you said.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Doesn't matter about the FTD to punish summons, since Zod won't be summoning outside of his most reliable summon setups. And even if MB ground blast doesn't hit due to Aqua trait, it's still a free summon on block.
Reversal FTD still punishes trait activation after MB low laser, but the Aquaman player has to mash which leaves him open to side arm.
 

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
AM can punish full screen bite attempts(I think), has better footsies and close range options, and water shield is an unexplored potential hazard, especially given it's armor properties. He gets out of almost every damaging combo with trait, FTD craps over most zoning attemps, including iazb.

That being said, as bad as it sounds, AM does usually have to respect Zod when he gets going, and many punishes have tough timing. 6-4 seems fair. Mostly, both parties have to approach each other with respect and both have to be on point with their punishes, but Zod often has to act from weakness more than AM
 

Jaku2011

Filled with determination
Zod vs Doomsday it feels like Doomsday just runs wild and does what he wants, I can't figure out a way to deal with him. Any tips?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Zod vs Doomsday it feels like Doomsday just runs wild and does what he wants, I can't figure out a way to deal with him. Any tips?
- Zod's trait counters Doomsday's trait and vice versa. The Wraith cannot bite Doomsday when he is in trait, but you can run away fairly easily by slashing and doing aerial Zod charges. If Doomsday tries to air snatch, allow him to approach and mash d+1.

- MB venom can be parried on reaction at mid range.

- d+1 after MB venom cannot be parried, but you can back dash. If the Doomsday player starts dashing after MB venom in an attempt to punish you, you can do d+1,2 xx MB low laser and get a full combo.

- Blocked earth shaker can be checked with phantom strike, but Doomsday can d+1 or back dash. You can allow d+1 to whiff and punish with f+2 + combo.

- With the correct timing, you can forward dash and whiff punish MB super nova (unblockable dive) on reaction.

- You can crouch under and anti-air splash with d+3 at all times.

- Instant aerial Zod balls are very good versus Doomsday because of his tall hitbox.

- Sometimes I perform aerial Zod charges when I am about to be cornered, even when I know I will probably get punished by MB venom. Doomsday is the most dangerous in the corner. He is not very strong mid screen.

I say 5:5 if not slightly in Zod's favor. Doomsday forces you to defend, so you have to be capable of blocking earth shaker.
 

Jaku2011

Filled with determination
Great advice earth shaker is so damn hard to block I don't see how people consistently do it.