Strategy Ares Strategy, Set-Ups, and Mind Games

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

OK, so I'm still on the newer side of this game, but I do have a question or two.

As a lab monkey, I spend a lot of time in practice mode and watching streams, so I wanted to know the validity of Upward Trait(Either one). Obviously it's a terrible AA, but on hit, they cause standing rather than knockdown. Does anyone think we can make use of this?

Invisibility: is it worth taking the time to setup? Does meter burning it make a big enough difference?

 

[Juggs]

I wanted to know the validity of Upward Trait(Either one). Obviously it's a terrible AA, but on hit, they cause standing rather than knockdown. Does anyone think we can make use of this?

I think you meant downward trait, but I haven't found much use for it. It's okay for rare mix-up uses or mind games, but generally not worth it.

Invisibility: is it worth taking the time to setup? Does meter burning it make a big enough difference?

Yes, it is worth it. His invisibility is crucial, imo. MB invisibility is good, but not worth it most of the time. Being completely invisible is a disadvantage to the user as well. But the regular invisibility is very good. It masks close range mix-ups, it builds meter full screen, it has a similar animation as teleport, so it's good to throw it in full screen a lot to build meter and keep your opponent guessing. I've payed attention to opponents who try to react to the animation of teleport with a d1 or something to punish, they almost ALWAYS do it when I go invisible because it really does look similar to the teleport animation. His invis is really good and every Ares player should go invisible as often as they can, as long as you do it safely.

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

No I meant upward. As is starting from up going down.

 

[The Gabriel]

No I meant upward. As is starting from up going down.

yes, that is downward, because the weapon goes *down*

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

Eh, same diff.

 

[ryublaze]

So basic mix-ups are d1 trait, b23 (or is this too slow?), and also using 2 and 22 and 223 for pressure right? What about 3 and 3,d2 teleport/invis?

 

[WaywardStranger]

So basic mix-ups are d1 trait, b23 (or is this too slow?), and also using 2 and 22 and 223 for pressure right? What about 3 and 3,d2 teleport/invis?

Most basic high/low mix-up is 3d2 (overhead) or 3~(d)d4 (low). Also, on block 112~d4 or 112~df1 mb.

Standing 3 seems to have the most cancel advantage of all his normals attacks so 3~mb invis linked into (d)d4 might be a legit setup on hit.

Glad you're giving Ares a try, Red. If you keep going I hope you'll fool around with this tech. As yet I haven't been able to work it into my gameplan, past end of match shenanigans. Maybe you can.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/advantageous-downward-sword-standing-reset.33211/

 

[ryublaze]

What's Ares' best anti-air? Just played a guy who jumped hella with catwoman and got free combos.

 

[Barracuda Deathwish]

What's Ares' best anti-air? Just played a guy who jumped hella with catwoman and got free combos.

Best thing to do is j1. Ares' game game relies heavily on trying to keep some space between him and his opponent but then going in for the kill and pouring on the damage when he finds an opening. If you are looking to jump in I'd say j1 or j2 will work.

 

[Juggs]

What's Ares' best anti-air? Just played a guy who jumped hella with catwoman and got free combos.

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/aress-best-anti-air-options.31199/

 

[ryublaze]

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/aress-best-anti-air-options.31199/

I like juggs.

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

It's a very bizarre setup. Because Ares relies on his trait for so many things, he not only is encouraged to be diverse, but he's almost forced to. Use the sword in combos, and your best mixups are temporarily gone. Invisibility makes high/lows difficult to see, but is hard to impossible to integrate it both close and safely. Throwing Ax is a great zoning tool, but can lose out on damage with some of his combos. Back 1 is a good footsie tool, but sends the opponent cross country. Very hit and run style. Also leads to very momentum based gameplay, especially given his lack of AAs and scoutable reversal option.

You guys think this will hurt or help Ares as a viable character. I'm going with hurt myself. It's always better to have both options than being forced to choose them.

 

[The Gabriel]

How are people landing 3d2 combos in games? What are your setups and strategies for landing 3d2 combos?

Last night I got 4th place in a 40-man tournament (again) and went through the entire night without landing a single one (no that's not a good thing). I've got hard knockdown setups, but there are so many different things that blow up Ares' weak j2 that it's not worth it trying to get the hit. AFAIK standing 3 isn't able to block punish much of anything, and you're rarely in a good position to use it after a knockdown, especially when you have to teleport to get next to them after knocking them down.

If you've just used your sword in a combo to set up the knockdown to get this going, then you no longer have the high/low mix-up to bait them into not blocking standing.

Ares' damage is terrible without this stuff (since the reset is now 100% dead) and I haven't been able to find the killer setups to make up for it. Ares has so many options after a trait juggle but they actually translate into even more escapes for the opponent.

 

[WaywardStranger]

How are people landing 3d2 combos in games? What are your setups and strategies for landing 3d2 combos?

Tbh, I rarely play a match without landing at least one 3d2 combo. Standing 3 does have a large hitbox--almost, if not, a phantom hitbox--and it can be used for footsies in conjunction with other normals. More often than not, my success landing 3d2 stems from landing a naked d1, whence Ares has a small amount of frame advantage for a subsequent a) throw, b) d1, or c) 3d2/3d4.

IMO clever use of naked d1 and subsequent follow-up attacks allows Ares to compete with any char up close.

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

That's why I expect people will start making greater use out of the falling weapons in combos, since they cause standing resets on hit and could help replace the reset. I've been able to get the Axe to cause a standing at a specific height. I believe it happens when the Axe only hits once, but don't quote me.

I also believe people will start ending combos with b1, 3 more, as the added knock away range can provide more time to recharge weapons or setup invisibility.

Personally, I think 3 has crap range, even including the Phantom Limbs. In fact, I think the only moves that I don't think have crap range are b1 and maybe standing M(Though I'm away from the PS3 now and can't confirm). It never really struck me as a move I might plausibly land without the opponent screwing up in my face.

 

[4x4lo8o]

Last night I got 4th place in a 40-man tournament (again)

Are you P. Gorath?


After d1 hits you're at +9, so if you go for a 3 it's only 6 frames and shouldn't be interrupted(if you do trade it's probably with a poke which means you did more damage and should be left with a small frame advantage).

If they know you're going for that after a d1 they can back dash, but if d1 again instead it'll catch them(and they won't be blocking low so you'll be +9 again) or a b1 can catch a lot of characters if they back dash and should be mostly safe if they decide to do something else.

Not related to 3d2, but you're also guaranteed a 22 after d1 hits. You can link 22 on block into GS or d4. They can poke out between the 22 and d4, but if they poke and you linked into GS they can't get out(you should be doing this same mix up off d1). If they block the d4 you're at +15 and can jump in or do a b1 check or something.


I land most of my 3d2's after jump in attacks though. Ji2 obviously, but I get them off of ji1 a lot too. The range on ji1 is pretty ridiculous and a lot of the time you'll catch opponents who think they're out of range. It's also really fast and recovers quickly, it'll often catch opponents who think they're going to punish a whiffed jump or something. At the very max range of ji1 a 3d2 follow up will whiff(you can combo with b1~d4 at that range), but at most ranges you can combo into 3d2. If they block the ji1 I think they can poke out before the 3, but if you're spacing it right they're usually thinking about other things and won't get that poke out, and if they are poking out you can use 22 instead which is too fast to poke out of.


I also land 3d2 a lot in the corner. Either punishing wake ups or because they're too distracted by all your other options. Ares does work in the corner. There are some match ups where my entire game plan basically is to get them in the corner

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

Are you P. Gorath?

Probably not. I've seen P.Gorath on other forums. He uses his own name

 

[The Gabriel]

That's why I expect people will start making greater use out of the falling weapons in combos, since they cause standing resets on hit and could help replace the reset. I've been able to get the Axe to cause a standing at a specific height. I believe it happens when the Axe only hits once, but don't quote me.

Are there midscreen combos you can end with falling axe that lead to standing? You can get one in after launch, j2, f23 and it will sometimes cause standing, mostly cause hard knockdown, but the positioning is too far and recovery too slow to capitalize

 

[4x4lo8o]

The Overhead axe standing reset is no good, unfortunately. It works like you said - stand them up if the axe only connects once- but leaves your opponent at a significant frame advantage

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

The Overhead axe standing reset is no good, unfortunately. It leaves your opponent at a significant frame advantage

And unfortunately using sword kind of defeats the purpose.

Sweeps are untechable. Can we make something of that, or are we more concerned with wakeup attacks than people getting out of it?

If wakeup attacks are the issue, is there some setup where the armor is still active long enough to plow through most wake up attacks?

 

[The Gabriel]

And unfortunately using sword kind of defeats the purpose.

Sweeps are untechable. Can we make something of that, or are we more concerned with wakeup attacks than people getting out of it?

If wakeup attacks are the issue, is there some setup where the armor is still active long enough to plow through most wake up attacks?

If you do godsmack late enough it will armor through and blow up their wake up attack, but if they see you waiting to do the godsmack late, they can just back dash it.

Also I think they can back dash the god smack after the b23, d3, hard knockdown setup every time.

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

If you do godsmack late enough it will armor through and blow up their wake up attack, but if they see you waiting to do the godsmack late, they can just back dash it.

Also I think they can back dash the god smack after the b23, d3, hard knockdown setup every time.

Is it the invincibility that gets Ares or the distance? What if they were fullscreen and backdashed into the corner?

 

[WaywardStranger]

After d1 hits you're at +9, so if you go for a 3 it's only 6 frames and shouldn't be interrupted(if you do trade it's probably with a poke which means you did more damage and should be left with a small frame advantage).

If you just-frame 3 after d1 I don't think opponent can poke; they get stomped instead. Standing 3 is 14 frame start-up so 14f - 9f = 5 frames. Am I missing something?

 

[4x4lo8o]

And unfortunately using sword kind of defeats the purpose.

Sweeps are untechable. Can we make something of that, or are we more concerned with wakeup attacks than people getting out of it?

If wakeup attacks are the issue, is there some setup where the armor is still active long enough to plow through most wake up attacks?

There's a bunch of talk about the sword standing reset here. I have high hopes for it, but so far there just isn't any set up that's good enough for anything other than a gimmick.
http://testyourmight.com/threads/advantageous-downward-sword-standing-reset.33211/


I stopped using the reset before the first patch even came out(it stopped working on the people I played with, no matter what I did - delayed the GS, went for MB b3 instead, etc - they'd get out on reaction almost every time so I just take my damage and keep my meter) but I know Juggs and some others were messing around with ending combos in sweep and doing the reset. Problem is they can usually just jump out and can always back dash. Anything where you delay it they can react and get out if they're looking for it. Against a lot of character the odds just aren't in your favor. Tbh I think the reset is just best used extremely sparingly, mostly for catching them off guard or making a big comeback.

 

[WaywardStranger]

Also dudes, ending combos with 123~(u)u4 is a wicked setup. Lots of options in most match-ups.