xZoro
War God.
Honestly, thanks for that.Dvorah
Predator
Quan
Kung lao
Jax
Cassie
Tanya
Tremor
Liu kang
Sonya
Erron black ( a bonus character just for you)
Easy.
I needed a good joke.
Honestly, thanks for that.Dvorah
Predator
Quan
Kung lao
Jax
Cassie
Tanya
Tremor
Liu kang
Sonya
Erron black ( a bonus character just for you)
Easy.
Dvorah
Predator
Quan
Kung lao
Jax
Cassie
Tanya
Tremor
Liu kang
Sonya
Erron black ( a bonus character just for you)
Easy.
Exactly the pointIf anything this thread is giving us an idea of TYM's top 5.
Kung Lao
Quan Chi
Tanya
Predator
Cassie
I voted Tanya, but I play Goro so my opinion is some what skewed.
I really hope this doesn't become a nerf Kung Lao thread. He's the best right now, but in no way is he OP.
..........@anybodywhothinkstheyknowallthematchupsfor10characters
You're smoking crack. Stop comparing tools and start comparing MU's.
This incessant obsession to list all the characters in terms of best -> worst is so misguided. In reality, at this point in the game's life, there is no top 10. We do not know enough about how every character fairs with every other character to properly determine this pecking order, and until we do, any fool quoting their 'top 10' list is comparing a set of tools through the eyes of their own character. Fucking half the cast is in the 'top 10' conversation, and supposedly none of the cast is in the 'top 5' conversation. When will TYM get a grip and stop being so presumptuous and assuming they in anyway at this point in the games life, when there are still at least 4 more characters to join the roster, are knowledgeable enough about every matchup for the 15 or 20 supposed 'top 10 characters' to officially rank everyone of them in order. Of course the case of fairly obvious for perhaps the very best 2 or 3 characters, but even after that it gets hazy.
@cR WoundCowboy I do not presume to know how to feel about Shinnok or how you come to these conclusions, but do you at least consider him in the conversation? Because if you don't that is ludicrous and is most likely you succumbing to you're own well-known downplaying tenancies.
inb4whoareyou?
inb4iknowthecharacter
Thing is you don't know if the Lao player will only do f2 (which is only -1) or f2~hat spin or f23~hat spin, etc... Not saying it's foolproof but it's a ridiculous normal.I would actually argue the opposite, Lao's F2 is all kinds of nice by itself but anything after it on block is definitely not challenged often enough with an interruption, which I also admit to being guilty of. (although I'd like to think my reasons for not doing so are more valid than most others lol)
Who's seriously going to constantly blow up f2~hat spin? And I mean if they do, just start doing raw f2. Again, it's not foolproof but still.f2xxhatspin has a gap, so does f23, i know stagger f2 might be a good mind game cause it's only -1, it's good for footies and whiff punish if you tell me, but it's nowhere near as good as Kotal b1 and Cassie b1...
Lao's main mind game comes from 112124xxexhat, and all the staggers from this strings combined with OH and throw mixups, that's what makes Lao's pressure godlike.
EDIT: f2 is not a mind game at all, now that I'm thinking about it
Can't you just buffer armour through it lol?Who's seriously going to constantly blow up f2~hat spin? And I mean if they do, just start doing raw f2. Again, it's not foolproof but still.
Yeh, there are all kinds of options and layers behind f2, especially in tempest. When someone gets blown up by run up f2 hat spin, they can choose to just stand there and block and wait to try and armor f2 hat spin or they just block because they dont want to get hit because its so fast. If you read this you can just do run up grab. F2 itself can be followed up with a grab, walk back b321 to punish whiffed pokes or punish them when they try to tech a grab/or are neutral crouching to avoid a grab, f2 into f2 hat spin as a fast pressure option, f2 into d4 and when they respect that you can do f2 into b2 hat spin, you also have f2 into 11212. This is all part of his pressure and it is absolutely false when people say there is no mindgame behind f2 at all.Who's seriously going to constantly blow up f2~hat spin? And I mean if they do, just start doing raw f2. Again, it's not foolproof but still.
No one is saying to just throw it out at random, Braindead. It still covers a huge chunk of screen real estate and it's something I have to think about in the neutral.You can't rely on hell sparks much in this MU because one bad hell spark and you're gonna get punished heavily into the vortex. You must have a bar of meter every time you go for a hell spark, and BS is way too reliant on meter to have a bar whenever he wants.
B3 isn't used as often with BS as in Impostor, due to having no vortex. It's kindda too slow to be used in neutral, and I use it mostly only in the corner on oki.
If you block EX tonfa it jails better then EX hat orbit anywhere on the screen so I have to agreeI think Tanya offense is far better than Lao
It's like the ex hat mind game but w far more options
f2 stagger isnt a thing, it's just used to punish / whiff punishing, footsie and keep in check, his stagger is 112124xxexhat wich is a true blockstring. Kotal b1 it's like KLs 11, with the difference that Kotal b1 is a 9f advancing mid while KL's 11 is an 8f high...Who's seriously going to constantly blow up f2~hat spin? And I mean if they do, just start doing raw f2. Again, it's not foolproof but still.
I can too say his is better. It literally hit's from 3/4 screen... It has a disjointed hitbox, you can't even anti-air it at max range. Cassie's JIP isn't even top 5. QC, KL, Sonya, Kj, Kotal... I would trade any special in the game for lao's spin. It's 7 frames anti airs, has a massive hitbox. Flip is only 1 frame faster, far less consistent at anti-airing, and has a much smaller hitbox in a trade off for safety. Like I said before, great character but you're up playing the shit out of her.regarding frames i might have tweaked a little cus ...salt but only by a frame and you can't say lao's jip is better than hers, they're good in different scenarios.
i believe you under played the hell out of ex flip kick but that's just me
don't really want to argue cus this sin't a nerf/buff thread but i really do think you're down playing her like how can u say ex-flip kick is not as much a defensive tool as lao's spin.
if you get blown up by f2xxhat spin you get a full combo if it hits lol, im not sure what you mean about "being blown up by f2xxhatspin", if you block f2xxhatspin it's -3 you have to make the KL player respect his minus frames. f2 into f2 will get blown up by armor, so does f2 into d4 or b2 or whatever. it's a good mindgame but it's not as legit as 112124. Once ppl realize that you go for f2 staggers or f2 into f2 hat or f23 or into a button press really they will armor the shit, no matter what you do, besides bdashing / blocking or jump back. character like Kotal, Cassie, Johnny, Takeda can catch Lao's bdash with their normals.Yeh, there are all kinds of options and layers behind f2, especially in tempest. When someone gets blown up by run up f2 hat spin, they can choose to just stand there and block and wait to try and armor f2 hat spin or they just block because they dont want to get hit because its so fast. If you read this you can just do run up grab. F2 itself can be followed up with a grab, walk back b321 to punish whiffed pokes or punish them when they try to tech a grab/or are neutral crouching to avoid a grab, f2 into f2 hat spin as a fast pressure option, f2 into d4 and when they respect that you can do f2 into b2 hat spin, you also have f2 into 11212. This is all part of his pressure and it is absolutely false when people say there is no mindgame behind f2 at all.
bruh...if you get blown up by f2xxhat spin you get a full combo if it hits lol, im not sure what you mean about "being blown up by f2xxhatspin", if you block f2xxhatspin it's -3 you have to make the KL player respect his minus frames. f2 into f2 will get blown up by armor, so does f2 into d4 or b2 or whatever. it's a good mindgame but it's not as legit as 112124. Once ppl realize that you go for f2 staggers or f2 into f2 hat or f23 or into a button press really they will armor the shit, no matter what you do, besides bdashing / blocking or jump back. character like Kotal, Cassie, Johnny, Takeda can catch Lao's bdash with their normals.
not downplaying here, I'm just saying that f2 stagger isnt a legit mindgame as many guys thinks.
ok,
are you gonna prove anything beside "bruh"?
and i dont often see any player armoring betwwen b321xxhat or b321xxexhat, tho as KL you can still block after b321xxexhat you still have to bait the armor, and if you're able to make KLs fear the armor it's a good startI would actually argue the opposite, Lao's F2 is all kinds of nice by itself but anything after it on block is definitely not challenged often enough with an interruption, which I also admit to being guilty of. (although I'd like to think my reasons for not doing so are more valid than most others lol)
Well for one thing, i think he loses to most of those characters. For another, shinnok could beat the best character in the game and still not be top 10. Individual matchups don't necessarily translate into tier position.Shinnok goes even or beats most of those people doesn't he? If not in BS, Imposter.
Anything is possible, but that is my opinion at the moment.@anybodywhothinkstheyknowallthematchupsfor10characters
You're smoking crack. Stop comparing tools and start comparing MU's.
This incessant obsession to list all the characters in terms of best -> worst is so misguided. In reality, at this point in the game's life, there is no top 10. We do not know enough about how every character fairs with every other character to properly determine this pecking order, and until we do, any fool quoting their 'top 10' list is comparing a set of tools through the eyes of their own character. Fucking half the cast is in the 'top 10' conversation, and supposedly none of the cast is in the 'top 5' conversation. When will TYM get a grip and stop being so presumptuous and assuming they in anyway at this point in the games life, when there are still at least 4 more characters to join the roster, are knowledgeable enough about every matchup for the 15 or 20 supposed 'top 10 characters' to officially rank everyone of them in order. Of course the case of fairly obvious for perhaps the very best 2 or 3 characters, but even after that it gets hazy.
@cR WoundCowboy I do not presume to know how to feel about Shinnok or how you come to these conclusions, but do you at least consider him in the conversation? Because if you don't that is ludicrous and is most likely you succumbing to you're own well-known downplaying tenancies.
inb4whoareyou?
inb4iknowthecharacter