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A Tier List Crafted from Tears

QUAN-FUSION

Crotch-puncher
Its kind of like Skarlet in MK9. You won't see it online because it messes with timing but drone combos are just as deadly on hit as the plus frames they are on block and sometimes using it like Quan Chi's bat to hold opponents in place. For your 50/50's and allowing you to break 35-40% meterless with drones various options. An OH a Low, and a mid laser that's slow enough to make people respect otherwise unsafe options.


and the third portion of this bottom video shows some of the stuff it has utility wise too and park cancels.

Well holy shit... Thanks for that!
She looks great! I started mucking around with her after that other dude posted that thread about her being slept on but found her very hard to use (online) seems like you really need to be dedicated to her to get the most out of it.
 

Tweedy

Champion
Tanya is not top tier imo.

She can't delay her rekkas vs characters with fast armored moves, or people who know the match up well enough to poke. A lot of the cast can punish her rekkas if she doesn't delay. Her pokes are god awful. Her D4 has some plus frames on it, but it's too slow and has bad range. She has no way of opening someone up. Taking the amount of chip damage she does isn't that big of a deal, in comparison to getting put in the blender by half of the cast. You can guess wrong a few times and still not take too much damage.

etc

I think she's just really tough if you don't understand the match up super well. In a few months no one will consider her top tier IMO.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Tanya is not top tier imo.

She can't delay her rekkas vs characters with fast armored moves, or people who know the match up well enough to poke. A lot of the cast can punish her rekkas if she doesn't delay. Her pokes are god awful. Her D4 has some plus frames on it, but it's too slow and has bad range. She has no way of opening someone up. Taking the amount of chip damage she does isn't that big of a deal, in comparison to getting put in the blender by half of the cast. You can guess wrong a few times and still not take too much damage.

etc

I think she's just really tough if you don't understand the match up super well. In a few months no one will consider her top tier IMO.
I was given to understand with the correct delay timing tonfas were safe + uninterruptable.
 

Tweedy

Champion
I was given to understand with the correct delay timing tonfas were safe + uninterruptable.
From what I understand you can't delay at all without getting blown up by decently fast armored moves.

Edit: But idk.
 

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
F/T main. The general consensus is more like Ruthless > Vicious > Lackey, so Lackey definitely shouldn't be on top, but it is highly dependent on matchup.

I also think Blood Kotal Kahn and Goro are too low on the list.
 

Doctor Rektangle

Think outside the Box
F/T main. The general consensus is more like Ruthless > Vicious > Lackey, so Lackey definitely shouldn't be on top, but it is highly dependent on matchup.

I also think Blood Kotal Kahn and Goro are too low on the list.
FT was a weird one since each variation as you said generally has a MU utility more than a all around character. Especially with the projectile invincibility versus pain and gain cancels etc.

As for Goro care to explain? Im genuinely curious.

As for Blood God I could see him making gains but as it stands right now he's fitting the bill for that lower area. Being outclassed by the other 2 variations, not having the most reliable pressure but his set ups are definitely good.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Tanya is not top tier imo.

She can't delay her rekkas vs characters with fast armored moves, or people who know the match up well enough to poke. A lot of the cast can punish her rekkas if she doesn't delay. Her pokes are god awful. Her D4 has some plus frames on it, but it's too slow and has bad range. She has no way of opening someone up. Taking the amount of chip damage she does isn't that big of a deal, in comparison to getting put in the blender by half of the cast. You can guess wrong a few times and still not take too much damage.

etc

I think she's just really tough if you don't understand the match up super well. In a few months no one will consider her top tier IMO.
I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I fully agree. She's very versatile however and checks a lot of good boxes... her chip damage is dope and she's got some nice block strings, and she can convert any touch into a Rekka... In theory. Against anyone who knows the match up every time she tries to do a full Rekka she gives an opportunity somewhere there for armour, and a huge amount of time the risk reward is against her... Except, Kung Lao guesses wrong, ok last hit of the Rekka goes through instead of being blocked, and you get to jail into another B12 blockstring. Kung Lao guess right? 35% of your health gone. People tout her meter building as one of her best things, but don't address the fact that 1 bar of meter goes a lot further or shorter depending on the character - just to combo she needs a bar, and being that her best way to get in is use of meter is spamming her safe armour, seeing as she has no other real way, she can't even condition with her lows, that's 2 bars for that +30%, that's really meter dependant and means her EX-Tonfa block strings are very situational compared to someone like Lau who can spam the meter on his happily.

I don't think she's bad at all. F2~Rekka is absolutely legit as hell. Very good character and will always be capable to compete. I just don't think she's in the top tier of the cast, there is some pretty ridiculous shit up in the top tiers.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I was given to understand with the correct delay timing tonfas were safe + uninterruptable.
I did actually see something along the lines of that. However the frame window for success and unpunishability on both secondary tonfa hits is ridiculously small possibly less than a couple of frames, twice in a row, with no real audio visual cues to go off just a flat, long pause and a perfectly timed buttons. However if there is a player out there that can do it consistently I might change my opinion on this character, seems like such a small thing but it would really make the character much higher on any list if it could be played like that. However I just doubt that will ever be done so I'm gunna talk in the realm of all likelihood.
 

Wigy

There it is...
I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I fully agree. She's very versatile however and checks a lot of good boxes... her chip damage is dope and she's got some nice block strings, and she can convert any touch into a Rekka... In theory. Against anyone who knows the match up every time she tries to do a full Rekka she gives an opportunity somewhere there for armour, and a huge amount of time the risk reward is against her... Except, Kung Lao guesses wrong, ok last hit of the Rekka goes through instead of being blocked, and you get to jail into another B12 blockstring. Kung Lao guess right? 35% of your health gone. People tout her meter building as one of her best things, but don't address the fact that 1 bar of meter goes a lot further or shorter depending on the character - just to combo she needs a bar, and being that her best way to get in is use of meter is spamming her safe armour, seeing as she has no other real way, she can't even condition with her lows, that's 2 bars for that +30%, that's really meter dependant and means her EX-Tonfa block strings are very situational compared to someone like Lau who can spam the meter on his happily.

I don't think she's bad at all. F2~Rekka is absolutely legit as hell. Very good character and will always be capable to compete. I just don't think she's in the top tier of the cast, there is some pretty ridiculous shit up in the top tiers.
Her jip is very good as is her teleport, she has f2 and b1 3+4. She has those overhead and low specials, punishable but both fast with great range, one of which starts a combo.

Really don't know what you mean by, 'she cant get in without spending meter'

Also with a lot of characters, if they armour, tanya eats about 12% into a knockdown, but if they fuck up and you block the armour thats like 35% 1 bar.

Im not saying shes top tier but people make out like armouring out is against tanyas favour. It creates another meta of options but they are still in her favour.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Her jip is very good as is her teleport, she has f2 and b1 3+4. She has those overhead and low specials, punishable but both fast with great range, one of which starts a combo.

Really don't know what you mean by, 'she cant get in without spending meter'

Also with a lot of characters, if they armour, tanya eats about 12% into a knockdown, but if they fuck up and you block the armour thats like 35% 1 bar.

Im not saying shes top tier but people make out like armouring out is against tanyas favour. It creates another meta of options but they are still in her favour.
It's not hat it's not in her favour or else she'd never do it, it's just that it's less in her favour than not having gaps and her pressure is always punishable unlike other characters
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
I Subbed- Warlock quan for a while and a lot of his stuff that rivals his other 2 variations requires 2 bars. Having EX Scoop is a solid tool but not enough to save him. Although I do miss the damage when scoop didn't scale right and always added 5% at the end of combos. v.v
Explain.

I've been playing Warlock for close to 3 months now, and if that 2nd bar involves what I think it involves, there is zero reason to use that move in a BNB. Ever.
 

Agilaz

It has begun
Disagree on Goro placement, in the sense that his variations are actually pretty even in relation to each other. Now wether they're B or C tier is another issue. I'd say C tier because despite his strong points, his flaws are too numerous and too easily exploitable.
 

FinalBoss_FGC

Day -4MONTHS Dual Jin main
Okay. Let me explain in a couple of sentences why Ancestral KJ is D Tier.

In this game there are two types of characters - base heavy and variation heavy.

Base heavy characters are Sub Zero, Quan Chi, Predator, Tremor etc. who, without variation specific moves can still be viable because they have options outside of the variation. Quan Chi still has a 50/50 into trance combo, Sub has combos into ice ball and so-on.

Then there are variation heavy who depend more on what the variation gives you vs your base set moves. These characters are Kung Jin, Dvorah, so-on where they have to rely on variation specific moves like mb chakram, bo swat and freeze arrow in order to continue combos.

Kung Jin's f2d1 is the only comboable pop-up starter string and it scales horrendously. So Kung Jin can only combo if he has freeze arrow loaded and you can only be safe doing so with 11 on hit. Any other time you will get blown up. This character relying so much on variation specific moves hurts him in this variation because he has to load the arrow before he has the option. And if he loads the arrow but gets grabbed before he can use it...grab takes so long that his timer goes out before he can even use it.

His combos take a certain amount of execution and his reset only does like 12%.

His normals are good when his variation specific options are good. Ancestral variation set play is bad.
 

Wigy

There it is...
It's not hat it's not in her favour or else she'd never do it, it's just that it's less in her favour than not having gaps and her pressure is always punishable unlike other characters
Its not a weakness really its just different. It doesn't cost any resources like other pressure. Personally i think its beautifully balanced, not guaranteed like other pressure but more deadly in some respects
 

Agilaz

It has begun
COLORS!

Anyway, how is Goro still considered so bad? I feel like everyone dropped him and after he was buffed no one was left to show that he could do some shit now.
I still main the guy. I admit I'm not a top level player, but so far it seems that his weaknesses outweigh his strengths. He's free to anybody with good air game, Punchwalk isn't as scary as it was the first two months (people just jump now and punish you - or, if you're playing Buzzsaw KL, ex spin actually destroys EX Punchwalk, lol), his backdash sucks, his run sucks, his jump punches are mediocre (though his jump kicks are alright) he's super meter dependent...

He also lacks fast advancing mids (this got a little better after the buffs, at least in Kuatan where they made chest bump a mid). F3 is good, but that about all he can do. Everything else has start-up frames in the 20's.

He has more issues, but these are just off the top of my head.