Should testers be excluded from competing in the first few tournaments of the game?

[Eldriken]

A poll on tym dont mean much since most us are casuals or semi hardcore and dont go to tournaments.

It's just gathering opinions. Not like anyone expects anything to come from it.

 

[MKF30]

IMO no, regardless of their "skill level" it's just unfair, I mean if two people are playing any game or sport in a tournament or competition whatever. Say a HR hitting contest, one dude has been taking BP for months prior, vs a guy who never swung a bat in the same contest? Would that be fair? Exactly...I see no difference here. I think personally they should be banned for the same time they've had testing the game from tournaments, contests, competitions etc.

 

[Doombawkz]

No I don't think you would, and I wouldn't have a problem with it. You are a tech guy. There are tech guys, combo guys, etc, but there are also tournament guys.

I'm speaking specifically on proven tournament players. I understand it makes the matches more "hype", but that does nothing for someone who took their time and money to travel to an event, just to be scraped by a tournament player who has been living the game for a year in advance.

I would be sick to my stomach playing well in a tourney for example, just to run into PPJ in top 8 and be eliminated while he wins a huge pot. But like I said, if others are ok with that then more power to them.

You trying to say I can't be a tournament guy? >_>

By that logic why get testers at all then? Also, of course NRS are shaping the basics of the game. Paulo is. Not Slips, not 16 Bit, not PPJ. That's not the point though. The point is, the tech guys are only useful once the game has taken its shape. Get them on board from the get-go and they probably wouldn't really have valuable contributions. Again, broken shit can be patched. But balancing characters, understanding what each character needs, move priorities, etc... is invaluable, and only those who truly understand fighting games can have good input about it, as evidenced the ton of cringe worthy buff/nerf suggestions you see on TYM.

You're aware of the role Slips played in the October patch for example, right?

Why does everyone assume tech guys have no concept of fundamentals?

Believe it or not, we probably have a better understanding of it than we get credit for since that's what we go to when we make our tech. You can't just say "OH Bane has armor so this tech should work." You have to take it through the grinder, see how it interacts with, literally, every other move in the game.

Don't take performance as the face-value. A lot of people on the tech side do have a very in-depth knowledge of "what each character needs, move priorities, etc..." Because unlike some other people who don't DEVELOP tech, we take all of those things into account when we do our work. Its nothing to get worked up about, but it does bother me when people group all of the tech people into one clump and say "These guys don't perform as well as -blank- so they must not have fundamentals/know about the game.".

 

[Konqrr]

Maybe...

If you have been testing the game for months, you should not be allowed to enter the first tournament or two. If you are like me and go in for a week, then absolutely not. In my case for both MK9 and IGAU, yes I played the game for a week before the public... which means jack shit in the time after release up to the first tournament.

 

[DuBBer Kiir]

Testers should be put in their own bracket lol

 

[DevilMaySpy]

By that logic why get testers at all then? Also, of course NRS are shaping the basics of the game. Paulo is. Not Slips, not 16 Bit, not PPJ. That's not the point though. The point is, the tech guys are only useful once the game has taken its shape. Get them on board from the get-go and they probably wouldn't really have valuable contributions. Again, broken shit can be patched. But balancing characters, understanding what each character needs, move priorities, etc... is invaluable, and only those who truly understand fighting games can have good input about it, as evidenced the ton of cringe worthy buff/nerf suggestions you see on TYM

No, that IS the point. I'm pretty sure Paulo is competent enough to shape up the basics. Great, you have fundamental players to check move priority, but what about this unavoidable bomb reset? Fundamental players generally make sure everything works properly and tech monsters go above and beyond to find exploitable bugs. Why wait until the game is released with multiple bugs to when you can easily avoid these mistakes? There needs to be a balance of both. You're making it seem like they're not needed at all because the game can be patched. Why does it even need to get to the point?

 

[The PantyChrist]

I say no and I think you're silly if you're going into a tournament within the first month expecting to win anyways

 

[DarthArma]

Woundcowboy UFGT

Forgot about UFGT. Wound got 2nd and lost to Chris G. What testers were present? I can think of Brady, 16bit, Chris G, and PL.

 

[F4tal]

You people act like the testers are playing the launch build of the game jesus christ how fucking dumb can you be? They really aren't getting an advantage besides the mechanics of the game. Quit crying.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Forgot about UFGT. Wound got 2nd and lost to Chris G. What testers were present? I can think of Brady, 16bit, Chris G, and PL.

Those you listed plus me, nerd josh, slips, hmm that may be it

 

[GuamoKun]

I want them to play because you can only get better playing better people so the sooner you play them the sooner you get better right?

 

[coolwhip]

No, that IS the point. I'm pretty sure Paulo is competent enough to shape up the basics. Great, you have fundamental players to check move priority, but what about this unavoidable bomb reset? Fundamental players generally make sure everything works properly and tech monsters go above and beyond to find exploitable bugs. Why wait until the game is released with multiple bugs to when you can easily avoid these mistakes? There needs to be a balance of both. You're making it seem like they're not needed at all because the game can be patched. Why does it even need to get to the point?

Urgh, no I'm not making it sound like they're not needed at all because I explicitly said they're needed, just not necessarily from day one. If that's how you got my point that's on you, but yeah, I wouldn't bring a tech monster from day 1. Clearly, neither of us have a specific understanding of how NRS does things or the way it prioritizes certain issues but you in particular sound completely oblivious to it.

Bringing up MK9 is flawed, by the way. That was NRS' first venture into making a tournament fighter, and they flew in a few testers for 4 days and that was it. In fact, said testers explicitly said they were told not too spend too much time looking for infinites and the like, because NRS had deadlines to meet and the game was about to be released. Obviously, things were done better in the case of Injustice. Ditto for MKX. MK9 was a poorly tested game, period. Bringing it up at this point is irrelevant since NRS is no longer having their game tested a couple of weeks before release.

PS: If you think you can "easily" avoid these situations, you're a far more optimistic man (read: unrealistic) than the rest of us mere mortals.

 

[coolwhip]

I think personally they should be banned for the same time they've had testing the game from tournaments, contests, competitions etc.

Lmao. Please, stick to improving your ranking on Xbox live.

 

[coolwhip]

Forgot about UFGT. Wound got 2nd and lost to Chris G. What testers were present? I can think of Brady, 16bit, Chris G, and PL.

Brady, PL and 16 Bit didn't end up making top 8. Now, this isn't necessarily proof of anything, but it might indicate that a month or so into the game, people start catching up, albeit not all the way.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Urgh, no I'm not making it sound like they're not needed at all because I explicitly said they're needed, just not necessarily from day one. If that's how you got my point that's on you, but yeah, I wouldn't bring a tech monster from day 1. Clearly, neither of us have a specific understanding of how NRS does things or the way it prioritizes certain issues but you in particular sound completely oblivious to it.

Uh, no, you said broken shit can be patched, which implies final stages of the game or post release. I have no idea how NRS does things and neither do you, so you can drop the condescending attitude.

Bringing up MK9 is flawed, by the way. That was NRS' first venture into making a tournament fighter, and they flew in a few testers for 4 days and that was it. In fact, said testers explicitly said they were told not too spend too much time looking for infinites and the like, because NRS had deadlines to meet and the game was about to be released. Obviously, things were done better in the case of Injustice. Ditto for MKX. MK9 was a poorly tested game, period. Bringing it up at this point is irrelevant.

It's called an example. Tech monsters are more inclined to find something like that faster than a fundamentalist.

 

[coolwhip]

Uh, no, you said broken shit can be patched, which implies final stages of the game or post release. I have no idea how NRS does things and neither do you, so you can drop the condescending attitude.

That's exactly what I said. Which, last I checked, does not imply broken shit shouldn't be looked for and fixed before the game is released. But, in case something is found after the game is released, it could always be patched, so it's not the end of the world (some things are actually found before release but cannot be patched out until after release due to time constraints, deadlines, etc...).

It's called an example. Tech monsters are more inclined to find something like that faster than a fundamentalist.

Yeah, I mean, who disputed that? I genuinely don't get your point. You're basically saying tech monsters are needed, well yeah. The difference is, when I first addressed this topic it was a response to someone saying "better player" =/= "better tester" and that the best testers are tech monsters. I disagreed with that by saying tech monsters are more useful in the late stages of testing but the better players PROBABLY understand fighting games better and more importantly, balance (again, you're conveniently ignoring how great the balance patches have been for Injustice). I don't see how this point is even debatable. Yeah, both are needed for different reasons. You just assumed I'm giving the middle finger to tech guys. So...what's your point exactly?

 

[Mikemetroid]

They make the game look good. So no, they should be allowed to play.

 

[SaltShaker]

Now you're comparing a match-up to player skills. Another bad analogy.

Ok. At the end of the day the people I mentioned will win 90% or more of the early tourney pot money. If you disagree with that I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[SaltShaker]

You trying to say I can't be a tournament guy? >_>

Lmaooooo! Nah bro I'm not saying that, anything is possible. But you'd have to get there 1st. If you were a high level tourney player with that type of tech knowledge (looking at you Fox) and tested the game for a year you'd have to be banned for life!

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Well one is already banned so only 299 more to go NE

You already posted this as a response to my "having to ban the 300 testers post" but last time had a winky face. (You/someone deleted it though)

Come on Pig step up your post game.

 

[Goldi]

The first major featuring MKX will be Northwest Majors in Seattle. No one is banned. Testers will not be excluded unless there is a significant outcry, but this is Washington lol we're pretty laid back. If anything a chance to play with some of the best in the game would just increase registration numbers here.

I can't believe the NRS community doesn't embrace NWM as a major even though every other gaming community does. Top players come for SF and smash, they even fly in from Japan!

It's whatever lol NWM has been going strong for years. You guys will come around

 

[coolwhip]

Ok. At the end of the day the people I mentioned will win 90% or more of the early tourney pot money. If you disagree with that I don't know what else to tell you.

I agree. It also helps that the people you mention are some of the best players on the scene.

 

[Doombawkz]

Lmaooooo! Nah bro I'm not saying that, anything is possible. But you'd have to get there 1st. If you were a high level tourney player with that type of tech knowledge (looking at you Fox) and tested the game for a year you'd have to be banned for life!

Whats worse is you're right. If I bothered to dedicate myself to the game and stuff, I probably would actually be pretty damn good.

All I can hope for is that SonicFox is my first match in a tourney, since I always win at least 1.

 

[SaltShaker]

I agree. It also helps that the people you mention are some of the best players on the scene.

That's the point.

If elite player A plays MKX for a year, and in, let's say, 6 weeks after release plays elite MK9/Injustice player B in a tournament, who is going to win that match 9 out of 10 times?

Hell even in real sports. Imagine one boxer training for a year for the golden gloves and another for 4-8 weeks. Or a wrestler. Or a marathon runner. Or etc.

That's why I think there should be a grace period. Of course there's always the "wow I can't believe that happened" upset once in a blue, but I n no way can a player be up to speed with a top tourney player who played for a year in such a short amount of time. Factor in playing for money and they're probably counting the dollars before the tourney even starts.

The only argument I've heard as to why they "should be" allowed to play is-

A) "I want to see high level play. Who cares if they have an edge and will dominate most of the money."

B) "A month or two is more than enough time to catch up."

C) "There was a guy who finished top 3 once so anyone can do the same."


Weak arguments in my opinion, but majority rules.

 

[SaltShaker]

Whats worse is you're right. If I bothered to dedicate myself to the game and stuff, I probably would actually be pretty damn good.

All I can hope for is that SonicFox is my first match in a tourney, since I always win at least 1.

All I don't hope for is you and Fox maining the same character, ever. I don't want to see the John Cena Era in MKX or beyond.