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Match-up Discussion Ares match up discussion 1.06

Mr Aquaman

Armored Launcher
Administrator
Premium Supporter
dont mind the commentary, and this is one of the thoasand ft5s we do, if he didnt edit out the real audio, you woulda heard my buddy srryimwhte play Toto- Hold the Line on the jukebox and i jam to it and sweep the last couple games. it was fun, enjoy.

 

Jaku2011

Filled with determination
I haven't felt so much pain vs Grundy since I played pre patch Lobo. Ares options? I heard b13 is ungrabeable, when should I do it? As soon as I see walking corpse? Also how do you zone him when swamp hands rapes Ares and make his projectiles disappear.
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
I haven't felt so much pain vs Grundy since I played pre patch Lobo. Ares options? I heard b13 is ungrabeable, when should I do it? As soon as I see walking corpse? Also how do you zone him when swamp hands rapes Ares and make his projectiles disappear.
It's hard.
Zoning is extremely difficult, especially offline, since Grundy can mb Swamphands on reaction to all your stuff. You can't really zone full screen, you have to get closer up so he can't really do it on reaction. But then closer up you get into that dangerous range where he can WCC through and blow you up. So you've got to find that sweet spot and even then you're limited in what you can do and it's difficult to keep him there.

Godsmack resets are really dangerous. He can wake up WCC cancel through those for a full combo so I don't recommend those unless you're doing one that will reverse his controls or something.

The end of b13 is ungrab-able. Same with f23. Problem is it's only the second half of those strings and they're both pretty slow so you sort of just have to throw them outt when they're at the right range. He might even be able to cancel the walking corpse on reaction. The other thing is that you don't really get anything from either of those strings. The reward if they hit is less than 20%, negative frames if you're blocked(and Ares doesn't really have a good enough back dash or jump to get out of this situation so you're probably going to end up having to attempt to armor through a mix up), or getting blown up hard if he reads it and throws out a d2 or 112 instead.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
When i play vs grundy, i rarely use projectile unless its mb de, so that if i get hit by swamphands i trade, but i try to save my meter for mb tele or mb b/f3.
I usually try to bait wcc, and try to stay just outside that range.
If i dont have meter i try to have more distance utill i have meter.
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
When i play vs grundy, i rarely use projectile unless its mb de, so that if i get hit by swamphands i trade, but i try to save my meter for mb tele or mb b/f3.
I usually try to bait wcc, and try to stay just outside that range.
If i dont have meter i try to have more distance utill i have meter.
How do you get more meter at a distance?
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
How so and is that good or bad for Ares?
It's weird, because the way the match up plays got a lot different, but it didn't actually end up better or worse.

Basically before the patch Ares basically zoned Arrow out. Ares would basically throw a lot of fireballs and axes and Arrow would have to deal with it. Once Arrow got in his d1~arrow pressure was really effective(Ares can't reliably poke out), he could crouch and punish Ares 22 string(this was a big deal because Ares had nothing else that was remotely fast and mid hitting), and once he got a knockdown he could cross up j3 all day and Ares wake ups couldn't do anything about it.

With the change to Arrow's hitbox Ares can no longer sustain zoning without meter. Every non-mb fireball you throw is a risk and if he gets a life lead he can turtle and zone pretty effectively.
On the other hand the new teleport lets Ares get up mostly for free and the new 22 string gives Ares a bunch of pressure that works pretty well on Arrow(GA doesn't have things like air mobility, tons of armor, strong long range footsies, or a floaty hitbox that make it hard for Ares to get his close range game going).

The new teleport also makes it much easier for Ares to stay out of the corner, which is huge, and also helps his runaway. But Arrow can punish teleport(even the far ones) if he's holding an arrow out as Ares teleports because it auto corrects instantly. It leads to a lot of interesting mind games because it gives GA reason to hold an arrow out without firing(which gives Ares space to move or zone back) and means Ares can't teleport all over the screen building meter for free.

I'd say the match up is much more balanced now. Not in the sense that one character had an advantage, but in that both characters have a lot more options and it's no longer a classic keep-away style match up where character 1 always wants to be in one place, character 2 wants to be in another place, and the momentum swings wildly based on who's established their spacing. The patch gave both characters choices about how to play the match up

I still try to play a more zoning oriented style in the match up, but it's difficult to say that that's the way that Ares should play that match up and I'm not sure that I'd even say Ares outzones GA. There are definitely times when Ares has to go in.
My meter usage is another thing in particular that I noticed has changed drastically. Now my meter goes almost entirely to mb fireballs, whereas before I spent half of my meter push blocking any time he touched me and I was near a corner.

Shouts outs to Red Reaper, he's the first GA I've played since the patch and he's really solid.
 
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Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
It's weird, because the way the match up plays got a lot different, but it didn't actually end up better or worse.

I'd say the match up is much more balanced now. Not in the sense that one character had an advantage, but in that both characters have a lot more options and it's no longer a classic keep-away style match up where character 1 always wants to be in one place, character 2 wants to be in another place, and the momentum swings wildly based on who's established their spacing. The patch gave both characters choices about how to play the match up

Shouts outs to Red Reaper, he's the first GA I've played since the patch and he's really solid.
Thanx.. I really liked playing matches with you. You actually surprised me with your zoning game. Didn't know Ares kould play keep away the way you did it. As someone who was interested in picking up Ares it intrigued me. I mostly saw Ares from his rushdown potential..

Sadly, I don't think I'll ever bump Ares to secondary or near any of my other characters. That MMH Match Up is just terrible. People say Arrow vs MMH is 2-8 and while I kan't quite agree, it is a bit bad. But no way is it near the level of Ares vs Martian. With Ares you kan't even do normal stuff like poke with D1 after Martian's strings. Everything seems stacked against you. It's terrible.
 

orochiDragon

PSN OROCHI-dragon / Archangel-44
Thanx.. I really liked playing matches with you. You actually surprised me with your zoning game. Didn't know Ares kould play keep away the way you did it. As someone who was interested in picking up Ares it intrigued me. I mostly saw Ares from his rushdown potential..

Sadly, I don't think I'll ever bump Ares to secondary or near any of my other characters. That MMH Match Up is just terrible. People say Arrow vs MMH is 2-8 and while I kan't quite agree, it is a bit bad. But no way is it near the level of Ares vs Martian. With Ares you kan't even do normal stuff like poke with D1 after Martian's strings. Everything seems stacked against you. It's terrible.
Oh I have to just sit and block that f'er. His stupid teleports beats ares out most of the time. Oh and d1 is not even a prob for that guy. At least most people just try to crouch and block lol
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Oh I have to just sit and block that f'er. His stupid teleports beats ares out most of the time. Oh and d1 is not even a prob for that guy. At least most people just try to crouch and block lol
Yeah. Match ups like that shouldn't exist for characters like Ares.

I wouldn't mind if characters that shut down other characters like Grundy and Hawkgurl have match ups like this but Ares isn't like that.
 

orochiDragon

PSN OROCHI-dragon / Archangel-44
Yeah. Match ups like that shouldn't exist for characters like Ares.

I wouldn't mind if characters that shut down other characters like Grundy and Hawkgurl have match ups like this but Ares isn't like that.
They made him too slow. His projectiles are slow except for mb fire ball and forwards sword. His teleports are either too slow or have bad recovery. His moves except for d1 and 22 are slightly too slow to beat out other faster or floaty characters. I love playing with him and its made me a better injustice player but dang, he gets stuffed, armored out, or is too slow half the time( making good reads excluded). His mix ups are so crazy tho!
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
They made him too slow. His projectiles are slow except for mb fire ball and forwards sword. His teleports are either too slow or have bad recovery. His moves except for d1 and 22 are slightly too slow to beat out other faster or floaty characters. I love playing with him and its made me a better injustice player but dang, he gets stuffed, armored out, or is too slow half the time( making good reads excluded). His mix ups are so crazy tho!
I have to disagree. Ares has a 6 frame D1 which is a low. And a 10 frame mid isn't slow. Especially one that's plus. B1 has good range for it's speed as well.

I think his main issue as far as normals go is with hitbox issues. Like D1 on floaty characters..

His mobility isn't that good as well but I think this should be changed by a change in his dash speed not his teleports.

He looks like he kan become solid if they just tweaked a few things...
 

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
Besides the fact that it's pretty hard for Nightwing to react to Godsmacks in staff, I really don't know much about the info. Thoughts?
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
Thanx.. I really liked playing matches with you. You actually surprised me with your zoning game. Didn't know Ares kould play keep away the way you did it. As someone who was interested in picking up Ares it intrigued me. I mostly saw Ares from his rushdown potential..

Sadly, I don't think I'll ever bump Ares to secondary or near any of my other characters. That MMH Match Up is just terrible. People say Arrow vs MMH is 2-8 and while I kan't quite agree, it is a bit bad. But no way is it near the level of Ares vs Martian. With Ares you kan't even do normal stuff like poke with D1 after Martian's strings. Everything seems stacked against you. It's terrible.
Yeah, I been realizing lately that my Ares is really lame and I think I might approach a lot of match up differently than most Ares players. I didn't get to play you at WNF last night(you and Krayzie disappeared without saying anything :() but next time I'm over there we should get another set it


Ares MMH is horrible. I've reached the point where I'm almost definitely going to counter pick in that match up. I don't even want to try grinding that match up any more. The other weekend when Krayzie showed me I couldn't even safely to trait dash cancels without him punishing on reaction that was really the last straw for me. The match up is just miserable

Besides the fact that it's pretty hard for Nightwing to react to Godsmacks in staff, I really don't know much about the info. Thoughts?
I really don't have any recent Nightwing experience, but my opinion has always been that Nightwing does pretty well in this match up. In staff stance Godsmack is hard to jump out of, but Nightwing can still dash out or mb b3 out of it without too much trouble and I feel like Ares gets outzoned(trading with the ground blast doesn't work well, Ares can't punish Flying Grayson well even if he makes a read and crouches it, and teleport doesn't work well for the kind of zoning in this match up)and struggles up close. Escrima seems better for Ares, but jumping around throwing wingdings can be difficult for Ares to deal with.