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Zatanna's face

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Masterson, you're missing the point entirely.
I'm not surprised, mind you, but you are.

What I'm commenting on is the idea that we pay specific attention to how a female looks in this game. We make a thread about it. We use the words, "fucking ugly" and "manface." How do you think a female who plays video games interprets this? How does it make the rest of us look? Video gaming has always been seen as a "boys' club" and things such as this don't help. The thread is shallow and sexist, but MORE IMPORTANTLY...it portrays a shallow and sexist image of the community. One which may push female players away from us.

Am I getting through to you? This is about the exclusion this kind of talk creates, in an environment that should be inclusive.

This whole attitude of "just guys being guys?" It's "okay because of biology?" That's wrong. It's ignorant of how actual biology works(You know, how in nature creatures of the same gender can mate, some animals switch genders, so on and so forth) and it is also condoning behavior we need to get rid of. It's not okay.
I'm not a guy, and I never called her those things. But yes the character model is bad, that is a valid criticism and there is nothing sexist about it. No one criticises supermans/sinestros face not because he is a man but because it actually has detail and is well modeled, what aren't you getting?

To say we can't criticise bad graphics because it will scare female players away is so condescending, not to mention ludicrous.

Wanting a character to look attractive isn't sexist it is about your attraction/love for that character, I was bummed the man of steel skin didn't have henry cavills face, just like many guys are bummed that these comic book sex symbols look off due to bad design, I share their opinion also because Zatanna is my favourite character and she should look like her.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
I can admit when I'm wrong. Still. I'm sure you could understand my concern. Lately, how women are portrayed and handled in gaming is a big deal. If you read anything about some of the seedier happenings at E3, you'd know what I'm talking about. I'm probably wrong here, but I'd like for the community to be more conscious of these things. Am I making any sense?
 

insomnia_ftw

It's simple.. We normalize the superman.
I can admit when I'm wrong. Still. I'm sure you could understand my concern. Lately, how women are portrayed and handled in gaming is a big deal. If you read anything about some of the seedier happenings at E3, you'd know what I'm talking about. I'm probably wrong here, but I'd like for the community to be more conscious of these things. Am I making any sense?
No, I know what you mean. A lot of the time, women in games are over-sexualized. Thing is, the same thing happens with men in games too. I mean how many male main characters are portrayed as chiseled-grizzled-rough-tough-baddasses? This (and this is pure speculation) is probably just because video games are an escape and a consumer product. Do people wanna play as Mr. kickass or an average looking, slightly over-weight, pizza guy (same example for females)? Perhaps that is just an issue with the artform; not very many games can have a deep story with interesting characters, so they make up for it. Good looks are a quick and easy solution to character depth or personality traits. No one is going to make a character unattractive AND uninteresting (unless maybe they are a random npc I guess?). I think it's just more of a business decision, albeit a banal one. Kinda like how DC had to fucking make Amanda Waller skinny and sexy for no reason other than accessibility.


What happened at E3? I didn't catch much of it.
 

insomnia_ftw

It's simple.. We normalize the superman.
Yeah that physical harassment in the first link was definitely uncalled for. As for that "rape joke", is nothing more than mildly distasteful. My friends and I used to say that shit to eachother all the time and it's only ever been a "You's about to get yo ass kicked" to me. In the article they go on to over-analyze the phrase with a passion. This is kinda what I mean when I say people get unjustifiably outraged at these things; It's a slap in the face to women that are actually ingrained in the culture enough to see that kind of stuff for what it is.
 
I'm not sure about the sexism argument. Let's review the DLC. Lobo and MMH are aliens, and their rendering looks fine. Scorpion wears a mask. Of course, there was a LOT of emphasis on Scorpion's appearance initially, since he had a cool new design by Jim Lee. The discussion of Scorpion's cool appearance got quickly overshadowed in the cry for nerfs, but it was certainly there at the outset.

So Batgirl, Zod, and Zatanna are the only ones with human appearances not wearing full masks. OK, Batgirl wears a half-mask, but I don't even remember a lot of discussion about how she looked, more people were just complaining that she was a DLC character. There was a lot of discussion initially about Zod's appearance. A lot of people didn't like his look, although his face wasn't distended or anything, and some people wanted a different style of appearance. Some didn't like the goggles, some wanted him to look more Man of Steel. Personally, I am still hoping for the Terence Stamp skin/voice. So, now we talk about Zatanna, and there are some complaints, not illegitimate, that her face could have been done better.

Frankly, I'm just not sure if the facts support this 'sexist' theory.
 

GrandMasterson

The Netherrealm beckons
This is about people saying NRS should go back to the drawing board because Batman's arm is in the wrong position or Raven's jaw is too big, because that's stupid.

It took an immense amount of concept art, licensee approvals, modeling and animation to get the character to this point. Anybody who thinks any of that is getting redone cause a thread full of facebook randoms say its not enough like a cartoon is delusional.
Who is saying this? Who is saying NRS should patch the game to make the character models look better? Maybe one doofus? I criticize the art because I'm an artist, and I think a true artist should always strive to get better. I criticize because I want NRS games to not only play great, but look great as well. What the hell is wrong with that? I want future games to have better animation and 3D models. You're arguing some point that nobody was even talking about.
 

Rathalos

Play Monster Hunter!
Lol dat face, this is why I'm so glad that there's no maskless hawkgirl skin. It keeps my hopes up that whatever's under the mask is not a Baraka lookalike.

She looks fun though, I'll definitely mess around with her.
NRS usually only screws up the lower part of faces, and we can already see that on Hawkgirl, and it looks fine.

For the Zatanna hair complain, from the one direct feed image, it looks like they fixed it for the final release. Don't get a good look at her face sadly, so its hard to judge.
 

medhood

Noob
I don't understand you guys you say you want Zatanna and then NRS is like ok here you go we made the highly requested Zatanna we hope you like her move set and design and then you people complain about her face and voice, first of all when your playing the game you don't see her face the games called Injustice: Gods Among Us not Injustice: Next Top Model and second her voice is like that cause she is younger then most of the other females in the game so they wanted her to sound younger.
P.S to the people who keep complaining about Wonder Woman's man face well she is an Amazon Warrior not a freaking barbie doll but I'll admit it was a little bit overboard.
 
Masterson, you're missing the point entirely.
I'm not surprised, mind you, but you are.

What I'm commenting on is the idea that we pay specific attention to how a female looks in this game. We make a thread about it. We use the words, "fucking ugly" and "manface." How do you think a female who plays video games interprets this? How does it make the rest of us look? Video gaming has always been seen as a "boys' club" and things such as this don't help. The thread is shallow and sexist, but MORE IMPORTANTLY...it portrays a shallow and sexist image of the community. One which may push female players away from us.
Anecdotally, I've found female gamers to be much more interested in the physical attractiveness of the characters than male gamers. I know a lot of female gamers, but most of them like Japanese games, like Final Fantasy, where the male and female characters are prettier. I have heard female gamers explicitly say that they weren't interested in a particular game because the characters were all ugly. They just didn't want to spend hours upon hours playing a game as ugly people. American male gamers tend to not care about physical attractiveness of the characters so much. American male gamers tend to have a preference for big, muscle-bound protagonists. If the main character is a male that is too handsome, it will sometimes be slammed by American male gamers for having 'pretty-boys' instead of being a real, hardcore game. Go to any gaming convention and you are going to see a bunch of females cosplaying Final Fantasy characters or other games with attractive characters. I am NOT saying women are shallow and that physical attractiveness is all that they care about. I'm sure that many women played Red Dead Redemption because it was a great game, even if the protagonist wasn't a looker. I'm just saying, anyone who thinks that wanting a game to have attractive females is putting women off hasn't talked to the same female gamers that I have. It is actually the opposite. If you have more attractive female and male characters in a game it would probably be more endearing to the female gamer crowd, not less. Yet, by attractive I don't mean big-boobed, scantily clad, sex object women. Characters like Elena and Chloe from Uncharted or Lightning and Fang from FFXIII are some great female characters that aren't sex objects, but are still not done ugly, and female gamers like and appreciate those characters, believe me.
 
I'm not sure about the sexism argument. Let's review the DLC. Lobo and MMH are aliens, and their rendering looks fine. Scorpion wears a mask. Of course, there was a LOT of emphasis on Scorpion's appearance initially, since he had a cool new design by Jim Lee. The discussion of Scorpion's cool appearance got quickly overshadowed in the cry for nerfs, but it was certainly there at the outset.

So Batgirl, Zod, and Zatanna are the only ones with human appearances not wearing full masks. OK, Batgirl wears a half-mask, but I don't even remember a lot of discussion about how she looked, more people were just complaining that she was a DLC character. There was a lot of discussion initially about Zod's appearance. A lot of people didn't like his look, although his face wasn't distended or anything, and some people wanted a different style of appearance. Some didn't like the goggles, some wanted him to look more Man of Steel. Personally, I am still hoping for the Terence Stamp skin/voice. So, now we talk about Zatanna, and there are some complaints, not illegitimate, that her face could have been done better.

Frankly, I'm just not sure if the facts support this 'sexist' theory.
Well mmh doesn't look fine, he has a peanut head, his head is oversized in the comics, as for batgirl, her forehead is pretty big, maybe they should swap foreheads?
 
I love how people bitch about WW when Amazonians are SUPPOSED to look manly...
But the anatomy is off entirely, her chest muscles and shoulders are disjointed. Also, women can have muscles and still look intentionally muscular like chun li, wonder woman in the comics has a light bit of muscle tone but not body builder style. She was given beauty by Aphrodite.

You honestly prefer the second design?
zz.jpg
 

medhood

Noob
This is something any artist who knew what they were doing would fix:
View attachment 7451
her name is Wonder WOMAN not Wonder Girl or Wonder Teen she looks fine the way she is maybe just give her a better nose currently her nose looks like it was given to her by Hercules and also how did this threat turn from a Zatanna threat to a Wonder Woman thread.
 
her name is Wonder WOMAN not Wonder Girl or Wonder Teen she looks fine the way she is maybe just give her a better nose currently her nose looks like it was given to her by Hercules and also how did this threat turn from a Zatanna threat to a Wonder Woman thread.
I've already explained and shown she does not look fine, the anatomy is off. Women don't have 4 foot long chests and 5 foot wide shoulders. smh
 

Icebaby

Ice Queen
I've already explained and shown she does not look fine, the anatomy is off. Women don't have 4 foot long chests and 5 foot wide shoulders. smh
Um what?

Woman can have big size chest or shoulder if they want to... Why are muscular women or gals who like to build muscle looked down upon? :confused:

Not every woman wants to be skinny or a image for there man only...

Some woman want to build there bodies and become as fit as the female body allows...






Wonder Woman is no different from those women with how she is portrayed in this game.
 
Um what?

Woman can have big size chest or shoulder if they want to...






Wonder Woman is no different from those women with how she is portrayed in this game.

Yes women can look like those photos, my reply was to "her name is Wonder WOMAN not Wonder Girl or Wonder Teen" her being anatomically correct doesn't make her a teenager/girl. Also wonder woman is not presented as a female body builder in most comics book renditions and even if she was the anatomy is still off. What are you not understanding?



Why are muscular women or gals who like to build muscle looked down upon? :confused:

Not every woman wants to be skinny or a image for there man only...

Some woman want to build there bodies and become as fit as the female body allows...
Sigh no one is looking down on anyone, stop trying to change a comment about a bad character model in to an attack on women.

Also SHE IS SKINNY look at the size of her waist, the anatomy is off, if you're not a artist or you don't know anything about anatomy then you won't understand.

This is the last time I'm explaining it, this is how a normal muscle woman looks and at the right is how wonder woman looks.
Untitled-1.jpg
 

Zatanna

Meterburned Interactable Master
The overall quality of Zatanna's character model and voice acting does seem to be of a lower standard than that of the rest of the cast. Some of her animations (namely her super) also come across as looking very cheap. I'm hoping that this isn't reflective of the overall quality of Zatanna as a character. I don't want another Zod (i.e. very buggy).
 

Kiko

Face it, you're done.
My personal opinion is that Zatanna, Wonder Woman, and Raven have horrible faces in this game (not Harley, not KF, not Catwoman, or Superman, Black Adam, Flash; for that matter).

Their looks may not be important to some that just "play" this game but to those us of that support this company and all the media behind it (shows, comics, movies), we want to see our favorite characters (oddly enough my 3 fav females are WW raven and Zatanna ie. Magic) being portrayed the way we have come to know them. Raven's win pose is a copy paste of Sindel's win pose and lacks any originality. Then you compare that to Superman who had multiple win poses and even different clashes.

WW has the worst graphical design of any woman heroine in this genre out now. Her boobs start midway on her stomache and she looks like a man from the boobs(?) up. Mind you, in the media, WW is portrayed as the beautifully stunning princess of the Amazons, who Superman even comments as the most beautiful woman he's ever seen.

Her looks mean something to her fight style as well because most people don't expect a drop dead beautiful supermodel to kick their ass. Heck one of the reporters in the series even comments that the Amazons look like supermodels in battle armor.

Ww's super and win pose Amazonian Sisters look better than she does.


The clash, super, and other cut scene animations are 100000000000% more important with looks than the fighting gameplay. Sure having cool effects in a FG is expected but with choosing this media merchandising giant known as DC, we should expect a little bit more detail to the faces of these iconic heroes! The cut scenes are when we can actually take a breather and get a good chance to look at both characters' models. If yours looks like WW or Raven, well sometimes it's just plain embarrassing.


I'm not saying it's a HUGE deal, but it definitely is something we can talk about.


I like that whenever a female character is debuted, the first thing we discuss is their looks.
Because we do the same thing with the male characters, right?
Sexism...sexism, everywhere...

It matters. And even if, the males generally look like the male characters they are meant to portray, with the exception of maybe Zod and Luthor.



I'm still crying.


Kabal unmasked.
I died laughing.



hmmm....



.....yea maybe not lol
No... I can't. I'm DEAD.
 
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