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zatanna vs aquaman unwinnable or am i just bad?

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
I fight the best Aquaman player in the world. These fools fight scrubs and try to talk smart on TYM.
Do you think you could play and upload a match with Brady?
Or play a match using whoever against REO since he seems to be testing the waters with her?
 

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
because ive beaten the same people before on the same day with zod when he came out. i was at least competitive with zod. with zatanna i feel like its a joke and i cant even get 1 game our of the hours i play with these guys. i have over 500 games played zatanna in total so far. half of them are against the aquaman players. ive been neglecting zod for the past 3 days and playing nothing but zatanna but this match seems to be getting harder and harder as it goes on. i just wants some tips from you guys on how to beat aquaman. i keep getting told to practice and get better but thats exactly what ive been doing for the past 3 days. so can i get some actual tips and advice on how to beat this guy? thats all im asking for. sorry if this sounds bitchy but im just sick of losing bad for hours every day
You've already played 500 matches with Zatanna? Is....is that correct, you didn't make a mistake?
 

insomnia_ftw

It's simple.. We normalize the superman.
Is this a huge troll thread or are people seriously throwing 10:0 out there on day 3? In order to even say something like that, you would have to consider yourself to be playing Zatanna at the highest level.. which is doubtful.

I'm sure the matchup is difficult as fuck, it is for a lot of characters, but have some perspective man.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Do you think you could play and upload a match with Brady?
Or play a match using whoever against REO since he seems to be testing the waters with her?
Perhaps after Summer Jam. They'll be very busy and focused this weekend.

Actually, we all talked on Skype and predicted that Zatanna would lose terribly to Aquaman after 15 minutes of testing.

If you know what to look for, you do not necessarily have to play the game for six months to find out.
 

Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
Perhaps after Summer Jam. They'll be very busy and focused this weekend.

Actually, we all talked on Skype and predicted that Zatanna would lose terribly to Aquaman after 15 minutes of testing.

If you know what to look for, you do not necessarily have to play the game for six months to find out.

Just like Zod was mediocre, if you are not going to help anyone in the thread Dave just leave and quit calling people Fools please.
 

webreg

Noob
Zatanna is gimmicky and against Aquaman you even NEED to be gimmicky. Let me make two examples:
  • Jump in, levitate, wait for Aquaman whiff, EX dive kick into combo which is an air launcher (cancel levitate into teleport back if AM didn't try to anti air to get to safety or if you are bold you may try to teleport behind him but that will most likely get punished)
  • Use EX slow fireball after a knockdown and use teleport behind and follow up with F3/B3. You either get a launching combo, he gets hit by the fire or he blocks. Timing is a bitch though.
This is neither guaranteed nor safe and relies on mind games and stupid good execution/timing but that is the way she is meant to be played. Yes, she is at a serious disadvantage against Aquaman but this doesn't make it 10/0. That's just ignorant hyperbole.
 

Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
Just spent some time on this match up, it is not 10-0, but it def could be 3-7.

1st things first, you throw her trait out the window, don't even think about using it unless there is some shit you can combo into in the corner and juggle with.

2nd thing, don't jump, this is pretty fuckin obvious because it's aqua fuck


This match will have to basically be played like most characters play him, defensively, you can't really initiate anything because of the way Aquaman is.

Her forward dash is what saves her in this match I believe,

this will be a match where if he comes at you you have to know your options vs everything he can do, the nice thing is while he does have great options he doesn't have a whole bunch of them, you have to know what you are going to do vs all of them. She can check him or punish him on most things from what I've been testing,

F21 because of the advancing wierd hit box seems to be the go to string here for me so far, also her Card move for the times he can mash a d1 to stop your F21 if the distance is as such.

From the deep can not be punished from far but you do get a free forward dash in.
It can however be punished and or checked from about jump distance for a free check with Cards or F21 will hit if they do it from about sweep, AM should not be doing it that close, but with AM players you just never know what they are gonna do.

If they like to mash D1 and D2- D2 can be punished with F21 and D1 can be checked with F21 as well, if they are not blocking and mashing a second D1 you will blow them up.

F13 on block gives AM a free D1 check which you have to respect but you can always MB b3 on a read or a jedi pimp moment.

Scoop is punished by F21 at sweep and in, and if it only hits you with the low and not the second hit then you can hit him with Cards on reversal, you have to now the distance of coarse.

One really nice thing I found is her D2 will blow up his J3, and seems very viable on reaction. you see him jump at you and hit d2 and it will hit him outta J3 99% of the time in my testing, so this will force him to stay grounded and have to advance on you or run himself into the corner.

This will be a patients match up where you can't be in a hurry to initiate offence and your defense will have to be awesome. I've just started exploring this match up today for like an hour, I haven't even tried any frame traps or even seen if instant air dive kick is viable.

I mean, there is still wake up options to look at, frame trap and vortex set ups, trait bait set ups.

Work at the match up people, please don't listen to "Pros" who talk in skype for 15mins and say you are boned. Level up, don't give up if you want to play the character.

If I can find stuff after such a short time, a month of grinding the match up and working on options will open it up a bit.

Obviously AM has the advantage in this, but it is not unwinnable.
 
I don't see how everyone has just decided that AM is not an issue for Zatanna.

AM is an issue for most of the cast, and if you cannot play (and win) footsies with him, don't have strong aerial zoning (specifically air to ground) or require easily traitable combos for damage then you have a bad MU against him.

So far Zatanna is looking like she is all three of those things. She cannot out-zone him thanks to from the deep. Her T-Rex arms keep her from playing footsies with him and her combos and resets are all prone to be being broken by AM's trait.

Having a 0-10, or 3-7 or whatever the number MU is not end of the world for her, she is still good and has decent enough MUs against some of the other principal characters, but dismissing the fact that AM is a bad MU for her is silly.

Even if the thread was put together in a poor way to convey the issue.
 

Immortal Kombat

almost moderate success
Which point made above is wrong?

Do you know a way to punish trident anywhere the screen? A combo that ignores trait? A way to challenge him in footsies?
So far the only full combo zatanna has done against me is with her mb dive kick. It hits fast enough to make you miss the trait. This matchup is definetly in AM favor. Id say 7- 3 just because if its 10- 0 NRS has some balancing to do
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Use one hit launchers or air launchers. No idea what Zatanna's are.

People see a teleport in this game and assume it is a free win button. Teleports are stupid punishable on reaction because if they were not the game would become a teleport fest. The only time you should teleport is when your opponent whiffs a move, is at a huge disadvantage, or you read a pattern in their gameplay. You shouldnt even use it on wakeup because it can be easily baited and half the time a bug will cause you to just appear in front of the opponent.

Aquaman fucks a lot of characters in this game though, that trait is BS.
FINALLY SOMEONE THAT KNOWS HOW PUNISHEABLE IT IS! Thank god
 

Groove Heaven

Jobber-baron
If your argument only consists of "Zatanna has only been out for a few days, you can't know if the match up is unwinnable" you should probably stop posting. That is not a valid argument. If you don't have an answer on what Zatanna can do to win the match up, you should probably stop posting.

I'll go ahead and just fall into the fallacious logical trap of inductive reasoning when I say it's way too early, because MUs have been called shutouts before and then overturned. We really don't even know what this character does yet. We don't even know what MMH does yet. Zod tech is getting found. Day 1 characters tech is still getting found. It might be safe to assume she loses to Aquaman if it really seems like his tools outclass her, but calling it a 10-0 shut out on day 3 of the character is histrionic. MUs get worked out, tech gets found. She probably has 9999 setups we don't know about, because it's day 3.
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Aquaman destroys alot of characters, especially those who rely on zoning. While i can't promise that it will become manageable, you should definitely grind it. It might become more like 3-7 lol.
But it's just so much easier to pick Frost.

I've been through the bad aquaman MU with babs and from what I can tell, it's even worse for Zatanna because her special speeds are so godawful she can't punish anything and on the off chance she gets a hit, trait destroys her combos.

So far, I've been trying to get at him with standing 3. It just slightly outranges his low poke and allows Z to combo into vortex (which is near useless against aquaman because trait :( )
 
Gotta love how we still haven't really found much out in terms of the best way to play MMH but ppl immediately assume they know Zatanna's match ups after like 3-4 days lol
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Gotta love how we still haven't really found much out in terms of the best way to play MMH but ppl immediately assume they know Zatanna's match ups after like 3-4 days lol
No one's assuming they know Zatanna's MUs. It's not hard to look at aquaman now and see that at the present time, he completely trumps everything she has.

Notice how I didn't say the MU is unwinnable or that it was 10-0, what I said was Zatanna has a lot of trouble and I can't see it getting much better.
 
No one's assuming they know Zatanna's MUs. It's not hard to look at aquaman now and see that at the present time, he completely trumps everything she has.

Notice how I didn't say the MU is unwinnable or that it was 10-0, what I said was Zatanna has a lot of trouble and I can't see it getting much better.

I wasn't talking about u specifically just to clarify

And i know ur not saying its unwinnable, I just find it humorous when ppl immediately say "oh well looks like this is another bad match up"

Well she hasn't really been out long enough, i mean the match up could very well be a bad one for her, and it is looking that way, but we can't really say that like its a fact, who knows, in a month from now after some more tech is discovered for her it could be a 7-3 in zatanna's favor (probably not but just saying)
 
Online: You teleport behind someone, half the time you might get a free throw or maybe even a f3 or hell even a bf1.

Buuuuut offline, if you teleported but it wasn't the MB variety I think Zatanna just died.
 
Actually the only time I teleport is if you get into a Zoning battle and I know someone is going for the trade or after some strings. But doing it naked just for the sake of it, is downright insanity. Just wanted to clarify the previous post.
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Actually the only time I teleport is if you get into a Zoning battle and I know someone is going for the trade or after some strings. But doing it naked just for the sake of it, is downright insanity. Just wanted to clarify the previous post.
etativel into MB teleport (either cross up or non cross up) is good against chars with not so good anti-airs (i.e. not aquaman or wonder woman)