YOMI and Hype...

[coolwhip]

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Metaphor

No shit.

Ha, get it?

 

[Vithar]

No shit.

Ha, get it?

Yeah , i can dig that shit.

 

[Youphemism]

If you seriously look at a match and think "oh YO MI vs YOMI, this isn't as hype because they're teammates" then you're clearly not focussing on the right thing. At the end of the day DJT is DJT, King is King, Slayer is Slayer, etc. Their skills aren't getting worse because of their clan tag, their fundamentals aren't diminishing, so what's the problem? Just watch the fucking match, watch the players and watch the high level gameplay instead of insinuating clan tags or the number of people using them make games less hype to watch, jesus christ...

Personally when I watch tournaments, I don't see it as "YOMI/YOMI" -- I just see Malik Terry, Denzell Terry, Forever King, Reo, Slayer, etc. I enjoy seeing those guys play each other regardless of what they put in front of their name. Same goes for 88's, RM, and anything else that's become a widespread thing here.

I still view MIT and DJT as being from Vegas, King as being from the Midwest, Michaelangelo as being from NorCal, Reo as being from NY, etc., and nothing is going to change that.

I figure that if everyone would just ignore the tags and watch the matches, they'd see some great gameplay and a cast of winners that's always shifting even when the same people play. So I'll enjoy seeing the higher level matches and leave the Team Complaining to others.

Props to Reno for taking the first step toward uniting good players in a serious fashion to make them stronger as a team.

Exactly.

I think it would be awesome if there were 2 groups like yomi... so that all the top players weren't on one team.

Then that would allow a rivalry.

cR, RM, to name a couple. cR isn't as big but they still have good players and RM is probably huge by now lol.

 

[coolwhip]

If you seriously look at a match and think "oh YO MI vs YOMI, this isn't as hype because they're teammates" then you're clearly not focussing on the right thing. At the end of the day DJT is DJT, King is King, Slayer is Slayer, etc. Their skills aren't getting worse because of their clan tag, their fundamentals aren't diminishing, so what's the problem? Just watch the fucking match, watch the players and watch the high level gameplay instead of insinuating clan tags or the number of people using them make games less hype to watch, jesus christ...

Exactly.

cR, RM, to name a couple. cR isn't as big but they still have good players and RM is probably huge by now lol.

RM is an online clan that involves many people who are actually a part of YOMI so that doesn't mean much at this point.

I don't think the lack of hype is related to them being teammate. It's related to the frequency of which they play one another, which is due to them being teammates. Obviously this is a natural consequence and there's not much wrong with it, but as the team continues to grow, and it becomes so big that it encompasses so many top players, then many of these matches lose their novelty and appeal.

People actually thinking the letters "YOMI" ahead of the player tags is what's affecting people's interest or lack thereof are really looking at this in a weird ass way.

 

[Youphemism]

RM is an online clan that involves many people who are actually a part of YOMI so that doesn't mean much at this point.

I don't think the lack of hype is related to them being teammate. It's related to the frequency of which they play one another, which is due to them being teammates. Obviously this is a natural consequence and there's not much wrong with it, but as the team continues to grow, and it becomes so big that it encompasses so many top players, then many of these matches lose their novelty and appeal.

People actually thinking the letters "YOMI" ahead of the player tags is what's affecting people's interest or lack thereof are really looking at this in a weird ass way.

The frequency of them playing each other in tournament isn't just down to them being teammates, that's down to them winning in their brackets. YOMI are top players and if people aren't going to level up and beat them then they're going to continue being at the top of tournaments and you're going to continue seeing the YOMI players fight. I mean it's not like you can blame them for being good players. The point you're making is that the matches lose novelty and appeal because they run into each other so much but that's because they all travel and because they're some of the best players.

In saying that what's the solution to this "problem"? Have less players in YOMI? Get them to pay their own way to tournaments so they don't appear as often? Would there then be more variety in matches? Then arguably the overall level of play declines slightly, it might actually be less hype since most of the top players now can't make it.

What's confusing me is the part I put in bold. You're saying that if more players become YOMI then more matches lose their novelty and appeal, but that would mean they're losing the appeal because they're all YOMI which brings up the point of matches not being as hype because of the players' tag/sponsor. Can you see why people are thinking you're saying that?

 

[Big D]

Please don't talk about me unless you get your facts straight. Of course I knew about option selects.

pig said that not me[/QUOTE]
@Pig Of The Hut is this true? I am on my phone and it says jonniti said this..

 

[coolwhip]

The frequency of them playing each other in tournament isn't just down to them being teammates, that's down to them winning in their brackets.

They play each other in their weekly...every week. That's kind of the whole point.

Obviously this makes them not different to any other team except they have far greater numbers so the potential for repeated match-ups increases.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I don't think the lack of hype is related to them being teammate. It's related to the frequency of which they play one another, which is due to them being teammates. Obviously this is a natural consequence and there's not much wrong with it, but as the team continues to grow, and it becomes so big that it encompasses so many top players, then many of these matches lose their novelty and appeal.

By this logic, GBS and WNF should never have been exciting, since they're mainly the same players playing every week.

I find the opposite to be true, though -- it's exciting to watch and see if people will conquer their demons, and matches will go different ways.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

Here are three big problems to me:


1. Because the YOMI guys are considered the elite of the elite and they get to travel to so many tournaments, any tournament without them at it is going to be immediately considered not high level. We've seen this before, "But VSM isn't there! Does it really count?". Obviously this is BS, but people see it that way when they come to expect these top players to be at every tournament. This might be overall how YOMI hurts the scene more than anything else.

I mean hell, let's just say the YOMI bus breaks down very last minute and none of them can make it to EVO. Imagine that situation in your head. Now how viable of a tournament would EVO be to you? Would you still value it over Combo Breaker? CEO? Whether you admit it or not, I'm sure that you all would at least question it, and that's EVO... now imagine any tournament smaller than EVO... they would mean nothing.




2. Because the YOMI guys can travel to EVERY major, even if players step up to the plate and do better than YOMI players, they aren't going to get nearly as much recognition as them, unless they can do it at a good amount of majors.

I mean for example, look at Red Raptor. He placed really high at Combo Breaker, higher than almost all of the YOMI guys, but when people talk about top players, his name is almost never brought up. I swear I am 100% NOT fishing for props here, but I'm a great example too. Last time we saw me at a big major, I beat 2 people who are YOMI now (Slayer and REO), but if you were to ask people for a top 10 players list, I bet a ton of YOMI would both be on over 90% of lists and Red Raptor or I would be on less than 10%. I'm not saying that me or Red Raptor or whoever are better or worse than the YOMI guys right now, but the point is that players getting recognition is near impossible with the amount of exposure that these guys automatically get.




3. YOMI is creating an unrealistic standard for sponsorships in the NRS community. For anywhere even close to what they're offering these players, any other sponsor would ask the players to stream regularly, spread the brand somehow, or at least have a standard for placements which are all very normal things for sponsors. When those sponsors look at the scene and realize that it's impossible to compare to such an overly generous sponsor, they might decide that they can't come close to competing, and sponsor players from other games. Also the fact that literally nobody but Sonicfox can travel and consistently place next to YOMI at a good amount of majors means that no players that can only go to a few majors can get the exposure that might get them a sponsor.



Definitely willing to discuss any of these points.

Chef, I love ya. But im a bit of a YOMI supporter. so im gonna be the one who argues these points with you cause i know we can keep it friendly

1. These players have always been the elite of the elite. and now because they have an acronym in front of their name its all the sudden different? DJT, MIT, MIchaelangelo, Forever King, REO. Were you around for the MK9 days?? These guys dominated EVERYTHING! without yomi! These guys are great players no matter who they train with. I had to play @YOMI DJT second round at SCR 2011 and i was freaked out then! them being dominant isnt a new thing. If YOMI said "we're attending Oklahomas new major Cowfights 2015 and we're sending YOMI Glass Sword and YOMI ATL Kush!" im sorry but that doesnt automatically make it a major. We need the top players, and those are the ones who are placing. regardless of acronyms.

As far as your EVO scenario. I believe that a well organized team would plan for some sort of event like that happening, and find a way to at LEAST send their best players there. if they can make it to every major, they can make it to EVERY major. Or else whats the point if you're not even gonna get to the Worlds? It would discredit YOMI IMO before it would discredit EVO.

2. Again, this has always been the case. there's lot of people who go to every major. Tom Brady is one of them. He's at literally almost every Major. But he doesnt make top lists just because he goes. He has to go and place. and thats what these guys do. theres a ton of competition and bad MUs in this game. Just attendance alone doesnt guarantee a spot. I know you went to NWM and beat two Yomis but more importantly the quanfather in the quan mirror <3 But your lack of attendance to keep that spot has kept you from achieveing the success and recognition of the Yomi guys. its that way in sports, fights, anything. UFC example, Dominic Cruz was near undefeated in the UFC but was injured and unable to compete for years. Even though he was once on top, he couldnt face the up and comers, and they slowly surpassed him. I wish one win could last forever but unfortunately more competitors pop up and you get kinda forgotten and outplaced if you dont. Especially if the players you beat continue to do well.

3. This i Kinda agree with you on. But my argument would be it might actually bring MORE crossover to NRS. Why would someone like Jwong who's sponsored by EG, is a phenomenal player, but is bound to stream a certain amount of hours a week, spread the brand etc not want to switch to something easier, attend just as many majors, and possibly win bigger cash?(100k at ESL, 50K at EVO). You show up to YOMI's weekly, drink beer and play games on stream, then practice the rest of the week with the best players in North America and get free travels to every major? sounds pretty sweet to me.

One argument i want to throw YOUR way though sir is this...

YOMI is a tight knit team who train with each other all week long. Probably mostly privately. If this is the case, how do they know they know..say...the quan MU? and not just the michaelangelo MU? He plays quan 110% differently than me and you. and theres so many different ways that character can be played. The strategy they have honed thinking they know the MU may end up hurting them against someone who's played say 3-4 top Tempest Kung Laos. We can adapt to the MU but they are expecting certain things. This is where our advantage comes in. Of course they know what to exploit in these MUs(ie quans lack of wakeups) but we could totally gimmick them out with things they've never seen before. Food for thought

 

[coolwhip]

By this logic, GBS and WNF should never have been exciting, since they're mainly the same players playing every week.

High level competition is always exciting. It's funny how about 23 different times in this thread I had to state that YOMI brings more positives than negatives and seeing guys that good play each other is fantastic to watch.

The difference between this and your flawed analogy is, matches like Denzell vs. King, MIT vs. REO, etc... are major-caliber matches. Watching it every week, in a way, waters down the hype because then when they square off in a major, it kinda seems like not as big a deal because we'd seen it so many times. That is not the same as watching Bit vs. Max, since GGA did not get every top player in the country and gave us all these matches weekly.

But, for the hundredth time, this only part of it, the "hype killing" part. There's also the actual hype part, which is seeing players of this caliber play so often and watching the game evolve. In fact, seeing all these players play on a weekly basis cannot be a bad thing. That'd be ludicrous. But on some levels, there is an element of oversaturation.

Now, if you don't feel it, that is great. You're enjoying it even more than some of us are (and for the 101th time, I am enjoying it greatly), but you can't fault those who feel a bit burned out.

 

[Tom Brady]

Chef, I love ya. But im a bit of a YOMI supporter. so im gonna be the one who argues these points with you cause i know we can keep it friendly

1. These players have always been the elite of the elite. and now because they have an acronym in front of their name its all the sudden different? DJT, MIT, MIchaelangelo, Forever King, REO. Were you around for the MK9 days?? These guys dominated EVERYTHING! without yomi! These guys are great players no matter who they train with. I had to play @YOMI DJT second round at SCR 2011 and i was freaked out then! them being dominant isnt a new thing. If YOMI said "we're attending Oklahomas new major Cowfights 2015 and we're sending YOMI Glass Sword and YOMI ATL Kush!" im sorry but that doesnt automatically make it a major. We need the top players, and those are the ones who are placing. regardless of acronyms.

As far as your EVO scenario. I believe that a well organized team would plan for some sort of event like that happening, and find a way to at LEAST send their best players there. if they can make it to every major, they can make it to EVERY major. Or else whats the point if you're not even gonna get to the Worlds? It would discredit YOMI IMO before it would discredit EVO.

2. Again, this has always been the case. there's lot of people who go to every major. Tom Brady is one of them. He's at literally almost every Major. But he doesnt make top lists just because he goes. He has to go and place. and thats what these guys do. theres a ton of competition and bad MUs in this game. Just attendance alone doesnt guarantee a spot. I know you went to NWM and beat two Yomis but more importantly the quanfather in the quan mirror <3 But your lack of attendance to keep that spot has kept you from achieveing the success and recognition of the Yomi guys. its that way in sports, fights, anything. UFC example, Dominic Cruz was near undefeated in the UFC but was injured and unable to compete for years. Even though he was once on top, he couldnt face the up and comers, and they slowly surpassed him. I wish one win could last forever but unfortunately more competitors pop up and you get kinda forgotten and outplaced if you dont. Especially if the players you beat continue to do well.

3. This i Kinda agree with you on. But my argument would be it might actually bring MORE crossover to NRS. Why would someone like Jwong who's sponsored by EG, is a phenomenal player, but is bound to stream a certain amount of hours a week, spread the brand etc not want to switch to something easier, attend just as many majors, and possibly win bigger cash?(100k at ESL, 50K at EVO). You show up to YOMI's weekly, drink beer and play games on stream, then practice the rest of the week with the best players in North America and get free travels to every major? sounds pretty sweet to me.

One argument i want to throw YOUR way though sir is this...

YOMI is a tight knit team who train with each other all week long. Probably mostly privately. If this is the case, how do they know they know..say...the quan MU? and not just the michaelangelo MU? He plays quan 110% differently than me and you. and theres so many different ways that character can be played. The strategy they have honed thinking they know the MU may end up hurting them against someone who's played say 3-4 top Tempest Kung Laos. We can adapt to the MU but they are expecting certain things. This is where our advantage comes in. Of course they know what to exploit in these MUs(ie quans lack of wakeups) but we could totally gimmick them out with things they've never seen before. Food for thought

In fairness, i made top 8 at most majors i went to in MK9 and still didnt make any top lists lol #Kappa

I do agree though, gotta place top consistently to be considered one of the best.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

In fairness, i made top 8 at most majors i went to in MK9 and still didnt make any top lists lol #Kappa

I do agree though, gotta place top consistently to be considered one of the best.

Yeah 2011 was a good year for you, for sure

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The difference between this and your flawed analogy is, matches like Denzell vs. King, MIT vs. REO, etc... are major-caliber matches. Watching it every week, in a way, waters down the hype because then when they square off in a major, it kinda seems like not as big a deal because we'd seen it so many times. That is not the same as watching Bit vs. Max, since GGA did not get every top player in the country and gave us all these matches weekly.

I'd argue that matches between Theo, Slayer and Tyrant at WNF were also major caliber matches -- and also that YOMI definitely does not have every top player in the country. They may be visible because they play every week, but there's a whole other bunch of excellent players in other players (some of whom will be at CEO).

 

[Bilbo11]

Im from Australia and I love watching American Tourneys, I have since Mk9 was real.

As long as the players are good and the commentators are good @DarthArma and @tombrady
Its entertaining as ever and the Yomi crew bring a great team and their top players make great viewing.
Shout outs to Forever King ,DJT, MIT, Michaelangelo, Slayer ect.

Also watching the ESL Weekly is great too, Perfect Legend, Pigofthehut, Sonic Fox,
REO, CDjnr Nivek(?) ect.

these are all still great plays to watch.

Basically if the matches are good then its good viewing, no matter what tag is on their names

Can't wait for CEO

 

[BS3OOO]

pig said that not me

@Pig Of The Hut is this true? I am on my phone and it says jonniti said this..[/QUOTE]You're quoting things strange in general. Just then, it had your last message with Joni's name up top....BUT Pig did say that.

EDIT: Mines quoted things strangely as well.

 

[RapZiLLa54]

Completely agree with @coolwhip on this.

 

[brahji]

Watching slayer knock djt down to losers this week at versus was hype as fuck.

 

[BS3OOO]

snip.

I feel you man. It's not like you're saying YOMI is a bad thing. Matched like DJT vs REO use to be a little more hype because it only happened like twice a year. Plus, it had the whole east coast vs. West coast going with it. Now that the match happens more frequently and they're on the same team, the hype diminishes a little. Of course it's still entertaining because they are two very talented players, but it doesn't provoke the same emotion that it use to.

I welcome YOMI though. We are damn near guaranteed to see high-level matches at every tournament. We get to see people run the YOMI gauntlet. I love to see DJT and MIT try and knock out Sonicfox at a major. I'm anxious to see how Dizzy will do against Sonic and Yomi when he makes his return. I never sleep on the KH guys either, so I'm looking forward to seeing all of them make an appearance at a major. Same with the West Coast and Florida. Still plenty of storylines for me.

I still it makes people uncomfortable when you make topics like this. It takes them out of their comfort zone and it offends them for some reason. It's good conversation, but I guess they don't want any of YOMI feeling a certain type of way about our community or thinking that we're ungrateful....but of course they shouldn't feel that way if they actually read and understood what you said.

 

[BS3OOO]

LOL did you even read the thread? Sorry for treating a crybaby thread from someone who's notorious for shitting on people across the world while having 0 stake on it for what it is. But hey maybe he's right YOMI is killing the hype RIP competitive MKX never had chance to live.

Lol I'm wondering if you read the thread. The opening post wasn't him crying or dissing YOMI, because he said YOMI has waaay more positives than negatives. You know a lot of people don't see things the way you do, right? If so, they'd probably like your post in agreement. You're just coming off as a hostile crybaby who doesn't know how to converse properly.

 

[Big Pampering]

Its not so much that it isnt as hype because it is yomi vs yomi. Its just that we have seen those matchups many times already. Djt vs forever king, fk vs mit, mit vs djt etc. For a while vsm was also very dominant and the scene became infinitely more interesting after mlg anaheim because players like djt, 16 bit, tyrant, pl etc. stepped their game up and beat the vsm players and started to compete on the same levels. We just have to wait till this happens again.

 

[Temjiin]

Yeah 2011 was a good year for you, for sure

2012 was a Gr8one though.

 

[Cossner]

Lol I'm wondering if you read the thread. The opening post wasn't him crying or dissing YOMI, because he said YOMI has waaay more positives than negatives. You know a lot of people don't see things the way you do, right? If so, they'd probably like your post in agreement. You're just coming off as a hostile crybaby who doesn't know how to converse properly.

You dont even know whats happening lawl

 

[funkdoc]

in fact NO SCENE is doing option select cancels yet. Only player i know who does them 99% is dizzy. Hell Big D didnt even know what they were till yesterday. Our scene sucks man compared to SF and capcom. They wouldnt stand for this. YOMI people who live there and get the opportunity to do absolutely nothing but level up should have these 100% down by now, its pretty much a blow up they havent yet,,

this is a classic example of MK players assuming they have to be worse than other scenes when it just simply isn't true.

the lack of OSes atm is STANDARD for any american FG scene, even capcom. look at the DHC glitch in vanilla marvel 3 - found very early, NOBODY was doing it until after the first evo. and that's a lot easier than the OSes in this game! same deal with TAC infinites in umvc3 - discovered shortly before evo, hardly saw them in tourney for the rest of that year. or vanilla SF4, when alioune was using a lot of the crazy cammy OSes and america didn't pay attention at all. this is just off the top of my head.

if you were saying all of us americans sucked compared to japan re: using new tech, then you'd have a point. but regardless of the game, 5-6 months seems to be a typical amount of time before important stuff is actually used in tournaments here.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

this is a classic example of MK players assuming they have to be worse than other scenes when it just simply isn't true.

the lack of OSes atm is STANDARD for any american FG scene, even capcom. look at the DHC glitch in vanilla marvel 3 - found very early, NOBODY was doing it until after the first evo. and that's a lot easier than the OSes in this game! same deal with TAC infinites in umvc3 - discovered shortly before evo, hardly saw them in tourney for the rest of that year. or vanilla SF4, when alioune was using a lot of the crazy cammy OSes and america didn't pay attention at all. this is just off the top of my head.

if you were saying all of us americans sucked compared to japan re: using new tech, then you'd have a point. but regardless of the game, 5-6 months seems to be a typical amount of time before important stuff is actually used in tournaments here.

Yeah, was going to say the same -- people are comparing the tech that's widely used 7 years into SF4 to MKX at literally 2 1/2 months into the game's life.

Almost no one is playing any game at the highest level and taking advantage of all tech less than a quarter of a year in.

 

[coolwhip]

I love how everyone in this thread managed to give their opinion in a civil, productive manner...except the one guy crying conspiracy.