General/Other - Smoke XL Robo Smoke Discussion Thread

[boba_buster]

I have to ask why the search for the safe EX invis set ups after a spear vortex set up? If you understand how the frames work it doesn't matter if you're visable or not. NO human can react to the 50/50 when performed properly, it's a flat out guess...period. Plus your down a bar for a char that badly needs that bar to stay safe or get meaningful damage in this game. The real tech would be finding a set up to get it safely in neutral, on block, or after a damage combo so that you can truly have mind games. The only mind game any of you have created is your invisible and it's still just a 50/50 guess for the opponent, nothing has been gained except a bar of meter is gone and it looks cool. Hopefully I eat my words down the road but I don't think I will.

There is a 7 frame gap between b1/3 all the ppl I play with so far have figured out the timing of blocking low and letting go of down to block the oh , I have to use invis or throws or f13 to mix them up and keep the vortex going , jus go to the lab and practice it and u will see what I mean

 

[boba_buster]

Speaking of invisibility vortex i need some help with it bro you seem to know how to do it consistently.

I cant seem to jail them after i do ji2 ex invisibility they poke me out before i can do the f13 string. Sometimes it does jail but i would like to work consistently everytime any advice would help

I quoted u on what to do in the other thread

 

[Smarrgasm]

There is a 7 frame gap between b1/3 all the ppl I play with so far have figured out the timing of blocking low and letting go of down to block the oh , I have to use invis or throws or f13 to mix them up and keep the vortex going , jus go to the lab and practice it and u will see what I mean

Multiple people in this very thread have told you how to solve this problem.

But youll probly just ignore me again or try to call me out on my sad life like you did Khaotik.

Delaying the low is how you beat people trying to fuzzy guard. Say it with me. DELAY. THE. LOW.

 

[Reauxbot]

Guys, I would be interested in your experience!

How does f4 trade with pokes? I have had more success than I propably should.

After frametraps (1112, 113, 21, f43) I started doing f4.

Now f4 has a start-up of 10f. Subtract 2f because of the frametrap. Now the fastest pokes come out after 6f, so there should be a 2f window. It might take 1-2 f to release block before poking. Thus f4 beating pokes after a +2-frametrap seems to make sense. Yet I think that the traveltime of f4 must be taken into account too, as all the frametrap strings have pushback. I really dont know if f4 beats pokes. It might very well be a matter of hit- & hurtboxes.

F4 versus pokes... Whats your experience?

Theres a frame data for releasing block? What the hell...

 

[Reauxbot]

Multiple people in this very thread have told you how to solve this problem.

But youll probly just ignore me again or try to call me out on my sad life like you did Khaotik.

Delaying the low is how you beat people trying to fuzzy guard. Say it with me. DELAY. THE. LOW.

DELAY...THE...LOW...
Alright good class sir.
Also have you released any Smoke gameplay on your behalf? I used to watch your broken ass Black Adam videos for ideas.

 

[Reauxbot]

So what Im getting from a lot of people is that Smoke sucks..
But hes still really fun. Hard not to play the character

 

[boba_buster]

Multiple people in this very thread have told you how to solve this problem.

But youll probly just ignore me again or try to call me out on my sad life like you did Khaotik.

Delaying the low is how you beat people trying to fuzzy guard. Say it with me. DELAY. THE. LOW.

I jus got done saying f13 works great , pretty much the same idea behind delaying the back 3 , I just don't like delaying the 50/50 cuz you can get low poked out , had someone starting to d1 after I caught them with a few throws in the vortex

 

[boba_buster]

So what Im getting from a lot of people is that Smoke sucks..
But hes still really fun. Hard not to play the character

He's def not top tier but he's amazingly fun to play as , nothing more hype than making a comeback with 5% health left

 

[Scott The Scot]

To address his mixup game:
Smoke has a million ways to setup his vortex and I taught people at my local that you can fuzzy the mixup. But I managed to throw them off by choosing different ways to setup the advantage. Sometimes I keep changing what I do the 50/50 after. What I've been using:
JIP
F1
1
11
21
2
3
3~Phase

These guarenteed your overhead option. Because they now have to worry about when to fuzzy, you can start just doing stagger strings. Setup the vortex, then do F13 and snag them with the low. It works effectively, and then you can start sneaking in different normals and strings that don't leave you at enough advantage to guarentee the overhead to mess with the timing of their fuzzy even more. Keep in mind you're also delaying your low too, to beat the fuzzy. If you're trying to just end with a vortex ender like 21 then going overhead or low ever time. In my opinion, you're doing it wrong and you won't guess right every time.


Anyway, now onto something else I've been doing to people on wakeup:
I've been waiting for their armoured wakeup (usually safe) and instead of trying to break it with something like F34 or meaty 21, I've been using 4~Ex Phase through them so that I can get an additional 7% raw unscaled damage ontop of my bnb combo that I can start with like F43 or whatever your max damage starter is. It's pretty helpful when they have like ~45%+ left and no meter since I can pretty much kill them.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

I jus got done saying f13 works great , pretty much the same idea behind delaying the back 3 , I just don't like delaying the 50/50 cuz you can get low poked out , had someone starting to d1 after I caught them with a few throws in the vortex

Not if u end in stand 3. After 3 there's plenty of hit adv to delay the low properly

 

[Reauxbot]

To address his mixup game:
Smoke has a million ways to setup his vortex and I taught people at my local that you can fuzzy the mixup. But I managed to throw them off by choosing different ways to setup the advantage. Sometimes I keep changing what I do the 50/50 after. What I've been using:
JIP
F1
1
11
21
2
3
3~Phase

These guarenteed your overhead option. Because they now have to worry about when to fuzzy, you can start just doing stagger strings. Setup the vortex, then do F13 and snag them with the low. It works effectively, and then you can start sneaking in different normals and strings that don't leave you at enough advantage to guarentee the overhead to mess with the timing of their fuzzy even more. Keep in mind you're also delaying your low too, to beat the fuzzy. If you're trying to just end with a vortex ender like 21 then going overhead or low ever time. In my opinion, you're doing it wrong and you won't guess right every time.


Anyway, now onto something else I've been doing to people on wakeup:
I've been waiting for their armoured wakeup (usually safe) and instead of trying to break it with something like F34 or meaty 21, I've been using 4~Ex Phase through them so that I can get an additional 7% raw unscaled damage ontop of my bnb combo that I can start with like F43 or whatever your max damage starter is. It's pretty helpful when they have like ~45%+ left and no meter since I can pretty much kill them.

you should make a video sir

 

[Scott The Scot]

you should make a video sir

I was planning on making a nice long video on his vortex and options. Going to wait until I know I have optimal combos down, especially now that there's a reason to do stuff like phase mid juggle with the damage scaling tech that was just found. I've been doing stuff like starter~Bomb, NJP, 4~Phase, 4~Trident, JIP~reset option.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Not if u end in stand 3. After 3 there's plenty of hit adv to delay the low properly

That +29 hit advantage tho!

 

[boba_buster]

Not if u end in stand 3. After 3 there's plenty of hit adv to delay the low properly

I agree , just saying it not my preference at the moment

 

[Smarrgasm]

DELAY...THE...LOW...
Alright good class sir.
Also have you released any Smoke gameplay on your behalf? I used to watch your broken ass Black Adam videos for ideas.

I dont have any gameplay yet. I might be going to an offline session this sunday though. Might be streamed. Ill post in here if it is. Ill def be using him in some capacity at Final Round as well. How much depends on my comfortability and the MUs i run into.

 

[TheRealOnlyGoonie]

F21 DELAYED PHASE-THROUGH BEATS ALMOST EVERY REVERSAL IN GAME.

 

[Reauxbot]

I dont have any gameplay yet. I might be going to an offline session this sunday though. Might be streamed. Ill post in here if it is. Ill def be using him in some capacity at Final Round as well. How much depends on my comfortability and the MUs i run into.

So whose your actual main for now?
And your twitch account? Cause people stream more than they upload on youtube now a days.

 

[just_2swift]

call me crazy but using Phase in a combo increases Smoke's damage output. @just_2swift @Pan1cMode

try it.

I noticed this last week in a match I had. My air to air combo did 35% meterless

 

[just_2swift]

To address his mixup game:
Smoke has a million ways to setup his vortex and I taught people at my local that you can fuzzy the mixup. But I managed to throw them off by choosing different ways to setup the advantage. Sometimes I keep changing what I do the 50/50 after. What I've been using:
JIP
F1
1
11
21
2
3
3~Phase

These guarenteed your overhead option. Because they now have to worry about when to fuzzy, you can start just doing stagger strings. Setup the vortex, then do F13 and snag them with the low. It works effectively, and then you can start sneaking in different normals and strings that don't leave you at enough advantage to guarentee the overhead to mess with the timing of their fuzzy even more. Keep in mind you're also delaying your low too, to beat the fuzzy. If you're trying to just end with a vortex ender like 21 then going overhead or low ever time. In my opinion, you're doing it wrong and you won't guess right every time.


Anyway, now onto something else I've been doing to people on wakeup:
I've been waiting for their armoured wakeup (usually safe) and instead of trying to break it with something like F34 or meaty 21, I've been using 4~Ex Phase through them so that I can get an additional 7% raw unscaled damage ontop of my bnb combo that I can start with like F43 or whatever your max damage starter is. It's pretty helpful when they have like ~45%+ left and no meter since I can pretty much kill them.

I use this with lao. B3 into ex spin b3 eats the armor. It's on a hard read though.

 

[Smarrgasm]

So whose your actual main for now?
And your twitch account? Cause people stream more than they upload on youtube now a days.

If its streamed it will be on pigs stream. Twitch.tv/streamofthehut

If we do ill drop the link in here again when we go live.

 

[MajinBerserker]

Anyway, now onto something else I've been doing to people on wakeup:
I've been waiting for their armoured wakeup (usually safe) and instead of trying to break it with something like F34 or meaty 21, I've been using 4~Ex Phase through them so that I can get an additional 7% raw unscaled damage ontop of my bnb combo that I can start with like F43 or whatever your max damage starter is. It's pretty helpful when they have like ~45%+ left and no meter since I can pretty much kill them.

In regards to the 4-EX Phase: what is the s4 doing? Hitting their armor, then the EX Phase gets you out of dodge? Just want to make sure I understand this correctly. Sounds solid, if you have the meter.

 

[Scott The Scot]

In regards to the 4-EX Phase: what is the s4 doing? Hitting their armor, then the EX Phase gets you out of dodge? Just want to make sure I understand this correctly. Sounds solid, if you have the meter.

The 4 hits them, taking 7% of their health and the Ex phase makes you invincible and behind them. Setting up for a whiff punish. It's awesome.

I makes me wish that D2 was special cancellable haha. Would be OD lol.

 

[MajinBerserker]

The 4 hits them, taking 7% of their health and the Ex phase makes you invincible and behind them. Setting up for a whiff punish. It's awesome.

I makes me which that D2 was special cancellable haha. Would be OD lol.

Okay, sick. I'll lab this up.

Cancellable d2, yep... heh.

 

[jokey77]

I don't use F4 really after being +2 unless I think the person will do a normal at 9 frames or more. If I think they are going to poke after me being +2 I typically stuff it on a read with D1 or if I need to mix up the meta a little I wait for the poke then use F4D1 and hitconfirm if they're mashing or not respecting my advantage.

I use F213 a lot, as well, if I go for a knock down, due to its high hit advantage. Thus far, I've just gone for the 50/50 (if I see they have no meter for armor) or a throw. 21- I'm listening.

@jokey77 I've gone with F4 after EX Smoke Bomb, on block. So far, I've really only used d1/d3 after some of those strings you've listed. This early on, I don't expect opponents to respect the F4, so I just go Smoke's quickest poke route.
I use F4 moreso in neutral, at this time.

It is just that I DONT think that doing a d1 is the fastest option after a frametrap. I have ellaborated this already.

Quick summary: that is because the process of ducking seems to cost you some frames, while the opponent might already be crouchblocking.

I tried to use d1 when being +2 and got blown up a lot for it. Counterpokes beat me again and again.

I have had more success using throw.

 

[Scott The Scot]

It is just that I DONT think that doing a d1 is the fastest option after a frametrap. I have ellaborated this already.

Quick summary: that is because the process of ducking seems to cost you some frames, while the opponent might already be crouchblocking.

I tried to use d1 when being +2 and got blown up a lot for it. Counterpokes beat me again and again.

I have had more success using throw.

You are mistiming it then. If you are +2 and use a 7 frame d1. That leaves a gap of 5 frames (7-2=5). There are no normals that start up in 5 frames and if they did, you would trade with them. So the person would need a 4 frame move to beat out your D1. Pokes at that speed belong in Street Fighter lol. Throws iirc are 10 frames, that means you'd be leaving a gap of 8 frames. Throws can beat moves that are still in startup so that means when you are mashing throw, the person isn't pressing their poke at the correct time.