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General/Other - Bo' Rai Cho XL Bo' Rai Cho General Discussion Thread

Thefish

One Drink, Two Drink, Three Drink.. More.
Lots of practice yes...Then you can do something useless like this:



It's no faster than his run. If you have robot fingers, I imagine you could pull some shit with this. :D
Wtf. Are you on a hitbox or something it's hard to do! Probably couldn't do it twice in a row
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Wtf. Are you on a hitbox or something it's hard to do! Probably couldn't do it twice in a row
I hooked up my keyboard and XIM4 to do this. I can do maybe 3-5 reps on a pad.

I wanted to time wave dashing vs his run. Guess what, they're basically the same speed. His dash cancel is next to useless in my opinion. You would need serious robot fingers to replace your run with it.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
I hope Bartitsu is given some safe options and MUCH less gaps, and Bo in general is given more mobility because holy slowness Batman. If you haven't played against a Displacer or a Smoke or Liu Kang yet (with Bartitsu anyway): don't.
 

Thefish

One Drink, Two Drink, Three Drink.. More.
I hooked up my keyboard and XIM4 to do this. I can do maybe 3-5 reps on a pad.

I wanted to time wave dashing vs his run. Guess what, they're basically the same speed. His dash cancel is next to useless in my opinion. You would need serious robot fingers to replace your run with it.
Oh aha crazy.

You don't have to use it to run it works well as a mixup
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Oh aha crazy.

You don't have to use it to run it works well as a mixup
I have to sort of disagree with you. In the mid screen there is virtually no reason to use the cancel. It's a 26 frame start up and then you have to cancel into another move with it's own start up frames. Just about the only useful move to use after a cancel is a throw. All his good shit is too slow, and down pokes are worthless in comparison to other options.

In the corner you can do a combo that ends in D4, Then use F3, cancel, throw. That works well. Anything else and you tend to get jabbed.

You're much better off using F3's other options: F34, F3~DF3, F3, 1+3.
 

Thefish

One Drink, Two Drink, Three Drink.. More.
Fair enough but I use it well mid screen and I'm sure if you try to experiment you will to. It's not 26 frames your cancelling a 26 frame move about halfway through. It's safe on block after jump in 1
 

BanTheTesters

“Only the BEST are asked to be Lin Kuei...”
Moderator
Played an Ermac and a Smoke a few days ago and things did NOT go well...

Man some of these Bo Rai Cho match ups are terrifying...

How are things going for everyone else so far?
 

Thefish

One Drink, Two Drink, Three Drink.. More.
The f3 cancel is good when the opponent has no idea of the character, especially for midscreen resets.

I think it works really well when they know the matchup aswell. I always use the f3 overheads against a friend and he's ready or reacts, when I use the cancel into low he rarely sees it coming.
 

myri

Time Warrior
Played an Ermac and a Smoke a few days ago and things did NOT go well...

Man some of these Bo Rai Cho match ups are terrifying...

How are things going for everyone else so far?
Hard matchups I've played

Ninjutsu Scorpio - hard to get anywhere near him without getting hit by f2 or b2 which gives him a full combo, loses the footsie game hard, hard to keep him in the corner because of wakeup teleport.

Mileena - A given. She zones you to death, if you try to jump in on her then she rolls for a full combo. Also out footsies Bo, I haven't tried bartitsu for these matchups though.

Ronin Takeda - The zoning again, plus the low sword from the ground antiairs hard on jump ins. The reach from the swords screws you in the neutral too.

Basically any character that can outplay you in the neutral beats you, which is a lot of characters.
 

myri

Time Warrior
I think Bo does ok against smoke honestly, since smoke has to come to Bo to do anything really, trident is easily blocked and mid/full screen, his teleport is super unsafe, gap between his starter and smoke cloud for armour, as long as you read the wakeup smoke away once he's in the corner then you're well on your way. He struggles a lot more against Sektor honestly because of his zoning.

Some other matchups I think are good (as in, he doesn't just lose straight up) for Bo

Leatherface - Not so much pretty lady (again zoning) but in killer and butcher he has to come in too and can get caught by farts in the neutral pretty often.

Sub-Zero - Again he has to come in, only real issue is grandmaster but Bo has some good armour for dealing with the clone, plus if you're both looking for that corner position it can make that a lot easier since you'll both want to keep the other person cornered.

Kung Lao - He can get zoned by Lao but it's not too hard to get in on him especially with DM. His unsafe wakeup options make it super risky for him to get out of the corner without getting punished. Has a good amount of armourable gaps too.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
I disagree with Smoke being ok to deal with, he's very hard to lock down. He doesn't have to come at you at all and beats you in neutral. His movement makes it extremely difficult to lock him down and he can just use B2/B21/B21~smoke away to keep you at bay. Never mind how he can ex smoke out of every gap Bo has for a free whiff punish *shudders* He also usually doesn't have to spend as much meter as you do meaning if you do touch him he'll have a breaker half the time.

Keep in mind I only play Bartitsu, we should probably mention which variation we're talking about to avoid confusion lol.
 

myri

Time Warrior
I disagree with Smoke being ok to deal with, he's very hard to lock down. He doesn't have to come at you at all and beats you in neutral. His movement makes it extremely difficult to lock him down and he can just use B2/B21/B21~smoke away to keep you at bay. Never mind how he can ex smoke out of every gap Bo has for a free whiff punish *shudders* He also usually doesn't have to spend as much meter as you do meaning if you do touch him he'll have a breaker half the time.

Keep in mind I only play Bartitsu, we should probably mention which variation we're talking about to avoid confusion lol.
How can he beat you in the neutral apart from f1? Unless he has insane reads and spacing with smoke away he has to come in, he can't zone with trident and smoke cloud, both are very easily reactable and his teleport is unsafe, I don't see how he can afford to stay full screen really. I mean sure he can do tridents and smoke clouds from fullscreen but I don't think it's effective at all for reasons I stated. Also even if smoke can safely cancel into smoke cloud there is always a gap between the starter and smoke cloud, easy armour potential/corner carry for Bo, then it's party time.

I play mostly Dragon Breath then Bartitsu and have started some Drunken Master here and there.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
How can he beat you in the neutral apart from f1? Unless he has insane reads and spacing with smoke away he has to come in, he can't zone with trident and smoke cloud, both are very easily reactable and his teleport is unsafe, I don't see how he can afford to stay full screen really. I mean sure he can do tridents and smoke clouds from fullscreen but I don't think it's effective at all for reasons I stated. Also even if smoke can safely cancel into smoke cloud there is always a gap between the starter and smoke cloud, easy armour potential/corner carry for Bo, then it's party time.

I play mostly Dragon Breath then Bartitsu and have started some Drunken Master here and there.
With B2 of course, Smoke's neutral is more than F1. Even F4 can be useful in the matchup too since Smoke has the option of F4D1 from it too rather than Triborg's usual F43 so he can mix his presure betwen F43 and F4D1/F4D12. How does Smoke have to come in? Bo Rai Cho has to get in on Smoke.
He doesn't have to use teleport or tridents in neutral so I don't see why you keep mentioning that lol. He actually can zone with smoke bomb to an extent since Bo's mobility is terrible. You can't afford to whiff a BF4 because it has so much recovery you actually get whiff punished for trying it.
He doesn't have to stay full screen, never said he did, but in neutral Smoke has control simply because he has better mids and MUCH better mobility than Bo.
He doesn't have to cancel everything into smoke bomb to make stuff safe, he has plenty of safe strings. He can cancel into smoke through or away instead if he's going to cancel into anything.
The meter game is just also not in your favour because while you're spending meter on everything to get a combo and for OTGs and whatnot he doesn't need to spend any. He's only spending bar for ex smoke on wakeup or to go through Bos multitude of gaps (or breakers if he gets hit).

But this is Bartitsu though, I reckon Drunken Master might have a better time since he has access to a decent mid and roll.
 

myri

Time Warrior
With B2 of course, Smoke's neutral is more than F1. Even F4 can be useful in the matchup too since Smoke has the option of F4D1 from it too rather than Triborg's usual F43 so he can mix his presure betwen F43 and F4D1/F4D12. How does Smoke have to come in? Bo Rai Cho has to get in on Smoke.
He doesn't have to use teleport or tridents in neutral so I don't see why you keep mentioning that lol. He actually can zone with smoke bomb to an extent since Bo's mobility is terrible. You can't afford to whiff a BF4 because it has so much recovery you actually get whiff punished for trying it.
He doesn't have to stay full screen, never said he did, but in neutral Smoke has control simply because he has better mids and MUCH better mobility than Bo.
He doesn't have to cancel everything into smoke bomb to make stuff safe, he has plenty of safe strings. He can cancel into smoke through or away instead if he's going to cancel into anything.
The meter game is just also not in your favour because while you're spending meter on everything to get a combo and for OTGs and whatnot he doesn't need to spend any. He's only spending bar for ex smoke on wakeup or to go through Bos multitude of gaps (or breakers if he gets hit).

But this is Bartitsu though, I reckon Drunken Master might have a better time since he has access to a decent mid and roll.
You can quite easily react to b21 from fullscreen and smoke cloud is slow, easily jumped or blocked, even armoured at the right range. I don't see how you think smoke can zone, I mean you'd have to be trying seriously hard to not block a smoke cloud at fullscreen. Also dealing with ex smoke away on wakeup is a read for every character, this isn't matchup specific. Smoke would probably win if we both just stood fullscreen all day but its quite simple to run in, blocking smoke clouds and get stuff started. Smoke is a vortex character, he wants to be in he gains basically nothing from backing off from Bo. He does have meter advantage it's true but I just don't feel this matchup is that tough to be honest. I have spent a lot of time playing it too, Dragon Breath vs Smoke and it feels quite even.
 

TamedLizard

Buff George
I'm actually having some trouble with CT Kano when using DB. D4~DB1 and F4~DB1 present problems. Slice leaves him just outside of range to do anything productive due to Bo's slow advancing normals. Never really feels like my turn :/

Bart may be the better option here. At least I can check with F1 or D4 after a blocked DB1 and can dish out a hard punish on Kano balls, but I'm open to suggestions lol.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
You can quite easily react to b21 from fullscreen and smoke cloud is slow, easily jumped or blocked, even armoured at the right range. I don't see how you think smoke can zone, I mean you'd have to be trying seriously hard to not block a smoke cloud at fullscreen. Also dealing with ex smoke away on wakeup is a read for every character, this isn't matchup specific. Smoke would probably win if we both just stood fullscreen all day but its quite simple to run in, blocking smoke clouds and get stuff started. Smoke is a vortex character, he wants to be in he gains basically nothing from backing off from Bo. He does have meter advantage it's true but I just don't feel this matchup is that tough to be honest. I have spent a lot of time playing it too, Dragon Breath vs Smoke and it feels quite even.
You can "quite easily" react to a 14 frame mid? Dude... Even if you could just reacting to it isn't going to do anything, what then?
Yes smoke bomb is slow but so is Bo Rai Cho, so from further than B2 distance Smoke can throw it out risk free to build meter. Why wouldn't he be able to use it to zone from further away? What's Bo going to do at that distance that Smoke has to worry about?
My point wasn't about ex smoke away on wakeup being a matchup specific, it was about him having to spend less meter than Bo. Ex smoke away just happens to be one of those uses of meter.
That's my point, Smoke does win because Bo can't get on him as easily as you're making out. Anywhere from jump distance or further he controls better simply because he has better mids and much better mobility. It most definitely is not "simple" to run in, Bos run is terrible. The whole matchup isn't throwing smoke bombs though, that's just one option he has because Bo has very little that deals with it well.
Yeah Smoke is a vortex character but he'd rather keep Bo away as long as possible. What would you rather have if you were fighting Bo as Smoke? Would you want to keep the fight in his face where he has better pokes and one touch/one mixup means you get put in the corner and have to hold the mixups or would you want to keep it midscreen/further where you have better options than him and he can't get anything started because you can keep him zoned out with your mids and general mobility?
My training partner plays Smoke and he gets punished for trying to come in on me, he knows now to just stay away and use Smokes mids to keep me at bay as long as possible because Bo doesn't have the best options to deal with it.

Maybe it's easier for Dragon's Breath because you have more safe options or something but for Bartitsu all I can do is hope he comes in and tries to go for a mixup so I can interrupt B1/B3 into smoke bomb with armour and get my stuff started. When he comes in is when it gets ok for me but his keepaway is ridiculous for someone with very little good anti-zoning tools like Bo (or at least Bartitsu).