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Would you be okay with MK12 being a legacy title from MK11?

MK12 being a legacy title?

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 18.5%
  • No

    Votes: 48 59.3%
  • Undecided, depends on how good MK11 is by the time it's done.

    Votes: 18 22.2%

  • Total voters
    81
I prefer them to work on MK12 instead.

Few things i like to see with MK12:

  • Dash cancles return
  • Dumb down fatal blow's and krushing blow's
  • Allow more mobility
  • Allow more options to custom a combo
  • No more variation's
  • Maintain iconic specials like ice clone etc.
  • More classic characters
agree also
1 one guess per pack
2 more single players stuff to do
3 klassic moves
4 other klassic stages
5 no celebrity voice actors
 

THTB

When's Syzoth?
Reminder that variations never resulted in characters having less moves.

On average individual characters in MK11 and MKX have equal to or more moves than their MK9 counterparts. They aren't "splitting up characters"

You're literally asking for less content.
The problem isn't the move count.

The problem is they have to balance a base around a group of variations, and that means that they have to take into account the base options mixed with each variation, and it causes overcompensation far too often in NRS's case.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
No.

I personally didn't like mk11 at all, specially because there were many mechanics that worked in previous games that nrs decided to change for no reason.

I would prefer armors to come back (in the way the majority of them ended up at the end of mkx). Backdashes having invincibility was a very cool and useful defensive mechanic. Traditional breakers were completely fine. Movement from something between mk9 and mkx would be good.

I think more than 2 variations is not necessary. Also, bye to fatal blows, please. Regarding krushing blows, besides the visual aspect, not very sold on that idea either.
 
The problem isn't the move count.

The problem is they have to balance a base around a group of variations, and that means that they have to take into account the base options mixed with each variation, and it causes overcompensation far too often in NRS's case.
This still not a real issue, given that the alternative is ONE moveset.

In the case a base moveset has to be nerfed for one overly strong variation, unfairly nerfing the other two in the process, you're still left with one solid version of the character which is no less than you would have had without variations.

And that's generously assuming in the "no variation" equivalent universe here that the version you'd get is the best potential version of that character, whereas with variations every character has three chances at viability.

Characters with two stinkers and one good variation are often used as an example of why the variation system doesn't work, but really they're examples of why it's working so well.
 

Arqwart

Lean, mean, and +14
it is stupid for waiting 6 long years we can wait 4 years they need to take their time give fans feed back what they wanna see this time remove the variations for good when 12 comes along i do not see them support 11 after ultimate edition comes out next year when kp2 is done what else they gonna do injustice 3 will be announce next year everyone gonna go back to injustice 2
I meant the 6+ years in regards to not seeing MK12, not supporting MK11 for 6+ years.
 

Altaire

More than human, or less.
It’s impossible to start from MK9 at this point. That’s multiple iterations of the engine ago, and running on completely different hardware.

They are going to go forward, not backwards. So most likely building from Mk11 just like the 11 engine evolved from MKX.

MK9 is almost a decade old now. People need to be realistic and just move on.
I don't think anyone is saying that they necessarily have to build upon MK9's engine. I think the idea is just that they could make a new game that plays like MK9 did, with a lot of repurposed normals/specials, and so on. They've already done that before as it is, i.e. Rain and Baraka in MKX.

To be clear, no, I don't think they should do this. People look at that game through some seriously rose-tinted glasses. Yes, we all have fond memories of playing it. We also have a whole lot of not-fond memories of playing it, and they aren't all things you could fix with a simple (lol) application of "fix the bugs, make the frame data consistent, balance it better". As much as I think an updated MK9 is fun to think about, and would probably be fun to mess around with for awhile, I really, really don't think it's the direction that MK12 should take.

If you want MK12 to play more like MK9 did than the past two MKs have, okay, that's fine. If you really believe that a direct continuation of MK9's gameplay is the route they should take, I think you need to give it a whole lot more consideration than you have.
 

Altaire

More than human, or less.
This still not a real issue, given that the alternative is ONE moveset.

In the case a base moveset has to be nerfed for one overly strong variation, unfairly nerfing the other two in the process, you're still left with one solid version of the character which is no less than you would have had without variations.

And that's generously assuming in the "no variation" equivalent universe here that the version you'd get is the best potential version of that character, whereas with variations every character has three chances at viability.

Characters with two stinkers and one good variation are often used as an example of why the variation system doesn't work, but really they're examples of why it's working so well.
Also, this. This isn't said nearly often enough.

The odds of a character having at least one good variation out of three are a hell of a lot better than the the odds of having at least one good variation out of... One.

Ideally, every variation would be good. Ideally, every character would be good. Realistically, that's never going to happen. The devs just try to get as close as they can to that ideal balance.
 

THTB

When's Syzoth?
This still not a real issue, given that the alternative is ONE moveset.

In the case a base moveset has to be nerfed for one overly strong variation, unfairly nerfing the other two in the process, you're still left with one solid version of the character which is no less than you would have had without variations.

And that's generously assuming in the "no variation" equivalent universe here that the version you'd get is the best potential version of that character, whereas with variations every character has three chances at viability.

Characters with two stinkers and one good variation are often used as an example of why the variation system doesn't work, but really they're examples of why it's working so well.
That is not an example of the variation system working at all. The point of the variation system was to give you MULTIPLE ways to play a character. If those choices are stinkers and you're left with one choice that even makes sense, then no, the system isn't really doing its job.
 

Gamer68

Fujin!
Reminder that variations never resulted in characters having less moves.

On average individual characters in MK11 and MKX have equal to or more moves than their MK9 counterparts. They aren't "splitting up characters"

You're literally asking for less content.
I really believe that NRS needs to stop making characters "play how you want" and instead focus on making solid archetypes and one moveset that is still large and respectable. Every other FG has one moveset and they do very well. Besides, they could take the time that it takes to develop all of those extra moves and variation systems and put it into something new.

Also, more content doesn't always = better content. MK11 proved this. We have custom variations we can't actually use because they couldn't balance it, we have a billion Towers of Time that all suck, like 60+ skins for all of the base game characters and most lack variety or are just plain bad (see: Cassie), and a Krypt that they wanted to be re-playable and resulted in the RNG bullshit we have now.

Imagine what the game would have been like if they cut down on quantity and put that development time into quality, would the game be even better?
 
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Gamer68

Fujin!
Choosing the most boring MK to be their one and only legacy MK game would be incredibly disappointing. I wouldn't even bother buying it, and that makes me really sad.

MK9 was the game they should have kept as legacy and just improved on it.
My problem with starting from MK9 is that animation-wise the game looks horrible. They would basically have to redo all of the moves to get them to look right, which means it wouldn't really be a legacy game because they would still have to worry about completely redeveloping everything.

That's why I feel like using MK11 as a base but modifying the mechanics to be a little closer to MK9 would be better. Then of course through patches or maybe whole Season updates they can make even more changes progressively.
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
My problem with starting from MK9 is that animation-wise the game looks horrible. They would basically have to redo all of the moves to get them to look right
Really? The only thing I remember looking wonky was the hitbox on Johnny's nutpunch extending WAY past his fist, so the np would visually whiff but they'd still be re-stood. Even sifting through some gameplay now, I'm not really seeing that :/
 

Gamer68

Fujin!
Really? The only thing I remember looking wonky was the hitbox on Johnny's nutpunch extending WAY past his fist, so the np would visually whiff but they'd still be re-stood. Even sifting through some gameplay now, I'm not really seeing that :/
MK11 animation is way better, in my opinion. It still has it's problems like jump-ins, but overall it was an improvement. Dash animations look better, idle animations, punch attacks (a lot of MK9 punches look like slapping to me -- especially Subby's animations), weapon animations like sword slashes, and so on. MK11 is also more interesting to look at because they take certain animations to the next level, like Scorpion's teleport isn't just him punching. He uses his kunai and when launching you he uses his sword as well.

Compare MK9 and MK11 directly with these Scorpion combo videos. MK9 just looks off.


 
Reminder that variations never resulted in characters having less moves.

On average individual characters in MK11 and MKX have equal to or more moves than their MK9 counterparts. They aren't "splitting up characters"

You're literally asking for less content.
but they've clearly taken it too far or actually shit the bed with them this time around with mk11. it wasn't ok in injustice 2, they did it much better in mkx, and they somehow managed to do a worse job in mk11.
 
MK11 animation is way better, in my opinion. It still has it's problems like jump-ins, but overall it was an improvement. Dash animations look better, idle animations, punch attacks (a lot of MK9 punches look like slapping to me -- especially Subby's animations), weapon animations like sword slashes, and so on. MK11 is also more interesting to look at because they take certain animations to the next level, like Scorpion's teleport isn't just him punching. He uses his kunai and when launching you he uses his sword as well.

Compare MK9 and MK11 directly with these Scorpion combo videos. MK9 just looks off.


well you would expect them to improve in animations right? 8 years since mk9 but mk9 has the better combo variety
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
My problem with starting from MK9 is that animation-wise the game looks horrible. They would basically have to redo all of the moves to get them to look right, which means it wouldn't really be a legacy game because they would still have to worry about completely redeveloping everything.

That's why I feel like using MK11 as a base but modifying the mechanics to be a little closer to MK9 would be better. Then of course through patches or maybe whole Season updates they can make even more changes progressively.
Not to mention that the engine itself has come a long way since then. I think people forget how much has been updated+improved since then.

This is why I think it’s far more useful/realistic for people to just list individual mechanics and gameplay elements they’d like to see. If you want more combo variation and pokes to be more negative, etc, just say that.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Premium Supporter
Mechanics, yes. (with tweaks that we've all been over a billion times)

Animations, movesets, etc. NO

Half the fun of a new fighting game is discovering which character plays in a way that fits your style. And I do not want this same sub zero again lol
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
This still not a real issue, given that the alternative is ONE moveset.

In the case a base moveset has to be nerfed for one overly strong variation, unfairly nerfing the other two in the process, you're still left with one solid version of the character which is no less than you would have had without variations.

And that's generously assuming in the "no variation" equivalent universe here that the version you'd get is the best potential version of that character, whereas with variations every character has three chances at viability.

Characters with two stinkers and one good variation are often used as an example of why the variation system doesn't work, but really they're examples of why it's working so well.
Nah man variations definitely feel like you're splitting a character. Take Sub for example: MK9 Subzero he only had 4 moves, one was useless after the nerf, yet he felt like a rounded character and you didn't feel the base was lacking; the special moves complemented his buttons well. MKX Subzero only GM was good because clone, the other variations had a lacking base obviously because they wanted to compensate for clone being a major neutral breaker. And even GM was quite polarizing because in MUs where clone gets shut down easily he suddenly becomes shit.
MK11 Subzero the "best" variation has only 2 special moves ffs. Thin Ice is ok but you always feel the character is lacking something, especially with the 2 useless moves he has. Avalanche is nice until he plays against chars with fast fireballs that stop him from getting out the clone, then half the variation is gone. When I want to play Subzero I have to choose between clone and air axe and it sucks. All variations feel like they're missing something.

Then you have other problems like Sun God losing his best tool with the B1 nerf because War God was stupid.

Variations bad :(
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
Premium Supporter
No. I hated how Injustice 2 reused strings. I want every game to feel fresh.

I like how MK characters always have signature moves but still feel different with every game.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Nah man variations definitely feel like you're splitting a character. Take Sub for example: MK9 Subzero he only had 4 moves, one was useless after the nerf, yet he felt like a rounded character and you didn't feel the base was lacking; the special moves complemented his buttons well. MKX Subzero only GM was good because clone, the other variations had a lacking base obviously because they wanted to compensate for clone being a major neutral breaker. And even GM was quite polarizing because in MUs where clone gets shut down easily he suddenly becomes shit.
MK11 Subzero the "best" variation has only 2 special moves ffs. Thin Ice is ok but you always feel the character is lacking something, especially with the 2 useless moves he has. Avalanche is nice until he plays against chars with fast fireballs that stop him from getting out the clone, then half the variation is gone. When I want to play Subzero I have to choose between clone and air axe and it sucks. All variations feel like they're missing something.

Then you have other problems like Sun God losing his best tool with the B1 nerf because War God was stupid.

Variations bad :(
Couldn't agree more. MKX had a few characters like Quan where variations were well implemented and added variety. But there were more characters like Sub that they messed him up.
 
I'd like for some legacy play to be introduced to the MK series. All we have right now is the very very basics. It doesn't feel good to have to re-learn the game each title despite being around since MK9 or even before. But you're talking about NRS who has previously stated they purposefully make the games wildly different each time because that's what they like. IMO MK11 was a very misguided step caused by this philosophy. Instead of actually looking back at previous titles and seeing what people liked about them, they just heard people bitching about MKX being too mix heavy and fast and went in the total opposite direction.

So ultimately, no, I'd be very disappointed if MK12 was a legacy game from 11 like you stated. I think they should take a real look back at what people have enjoyed from the previous entries in the series and genuinely improve upon it instead of just trying new shit for the sake of it. MK11 feels very soulless because of this. Like a generic fighting game and not MK. No flair, no atmosphere, nothing.
 

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
When Injustice 2 was revealed to be legacy, to me it seemed boring and lazy and didnt want it.

However seeing now how boring MK11, I really hope Injustice 3 is legacy, as I dont want them to fuck it like they did MK11 for me.