Question - Shinnok With the KP2 patch coming up, what buffs/nerfs should Shinnok receive

[STB Damashi]

I just found that if you do an ex Amulet Strike with and do a very fast ru cancel into d4 Hell Sparks that you get unarmorable pressure against your opponent. And in some situations like buzz saw Lao, they can't punish after the non MB Hell Sparks. Still more testing needing to be done tho.

Hmm that sounds interesting. For Ex-Amulet the only thing I've been experimenting with is waking up with it in the corner against GM Sub. It's plus on block and gets rid of the clone. It's definitely situational but just another option for Impostor/Necro to escape

 

[True Grave]

Hmm that sounds interesting. For Ex-Amulet the only thing I've been experimenting with is waking up with it in the corner against GM Sub. It's plus on block and gets rid of the clone. It's definitely situational but just another option for Impostor/Necro to escape

Check this and you'll see what I mean.

Edit. Also amulet strike is useless against a GM Sub that know about it. I labbed it with a clan mate and sub can actually take a step back and punish you, go under it, whatever he wants depending on the string he uses to set up the ice clone...when using amulet strike as a reversal to his clone. I forget the string sub does, but it's the only string that Shinnok can truly punish clone with amulet strike.

 

[Rude]

Nuff Necromancer. I have my own wishlist of buffs, but they're #Controversial

 

[ArmedCalf]

we're talking about 112 on block if you're discussing meter building. not a punish or whatever. and yeah, why use it when you have a 7 frame low lol.
i wouldn't do it off a jump in unless I was going for chip-out because why miss an opportunity to make my opponent guess between B3 and delay F4?

IA tele in NJ is fully escape-able. all the opponent has to do is backdash

My issue with his vortex is that it ends when he runs out of meter. meter which he has problems building in that variation.
and guess wrong only twice to die from vortex? show me the math on that one pls

if DJT thinks Impostor is so viable then why doesn't he use it? A+ Cutthroat Kano and Impostor Shinnok will never see a top 8.

I'm sure you do fine with Impostor, but I don't use it because i know it won't stand up to the top tiers without a ton of guessing, gimmicks and luck.
I doubt we'll ever see Shinnok in top 8 ever again since the nerf, but I can hope.

On certain characters the vortex doesn't end without meter - it just gets risky af. Lets also get rid of the notion that a character is only viable when a pro player plays it. If that was the case there would be a ridiculous amount of unviable variations in this game.

Let's use Tremor as an example here. A typical combo off a low without a damage buff would be 25%. If they guess wrong on a low then you can hit them with for 29%. If they guess wrong again then it's another 29% (OH or Low). That's already 83% dude. If they don't tech the throw then that's 99%. He can do shit like that to a third of the cast. If it isn't a vortex he gets, then he gets crazy chip damage, unblockable damage, set-ups on set-ups and more. Yeah he needs to do everything in the book to open people up but he's a solid character. Unviable right now would be like Unstoppable Jason or Fisticuffs JC - something that needs a LOT of work. Imposter might need the littlest of tweaks to make it nice.

Also if you do it low enough and time it right - no IA NJK isn't backdashable. It links into d4xxHS and pushes them away the full distance.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

112 leads to more damage as a starter than F4, that's why.

People thinking a variation is viable doesn't mean they can use it. They can know the characters tools from other people that play the character better. And Cutthroat won a major (along with a little Cyber) so that's your assumption out the window lol.

Impostor does well against Quan, Lao and Tanya at the very least because he can vortex them.

Youphemism i think we've already established that you know nothing about Shinnok after you argued constantly that you could fuzzy B3 and F4 after the impostor mimicry restand.
You can't even understand a simple concept like fuzzy guarding so idk why I'm even replying to you because you probably can't comprehend what I'm typing.

We're not talking about 112 as a punish or when you know its going to land. we're talking about doing the string when the opponents going to block it.

What major are you talking about?

Impostor doesn't do well vs a top 5 character just because he has an unsafe vortex that does barely any damage

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

On certain characters the vortex doesn't end without meter - it just gets risky af. Lets also get rid of the notion that a character is only viable when a pro player plays it. If that was the case there would be a ridiculous amount of unviable variations in this game.

Let's use Tremor as an example here. A typical combo off a low without a damage buff would be 25%. If they guess wrong on a low then you can hit them with for 29%. If they guess wrong again then it's another 29% (OH or Low). That's already 83% dude. If they don't tech the throw then that's 99%. He can do shit like that to a third of the cast. If it isn't a vortex he gets, then he gets crazy chip damage, unblockable damage, set-ups on set-ups and more. Yeah he needs to do everything in the book to open people up but he's a solid character. Unviable right now would be like Unstoppable Jason or Fisticuffs JC - something that needs a LOT of work. Imposter might need the littlest of tweaks to make it nice.

Also if you do it low enough and time it right - no IA NJK isn't backdashable. It links into d4xxHS and pushes them away the full distance.

there is a ridiculous amount of unviable variations in this game. Although its not their fault. they all just get destroyed by lao, tanya, quan ect although it is getting better.

I don't know what the connotations for that combo vs tremor is, but you're basically winning the lottery if you pull off something like that.
and i don't think he has a midscreen meterless vortex with mimicry specials vs a third of the cast; maybe like 7 characters. are you forgetting takeda's useless special and Erron Black?
You're seeing things through rose colored glasses. Tremor is a rarity; if the cast was like tremor then it would be a different story. You know how annoying it is to steal a useless special move and to have no good options besides tele when you have no meter.
Meter you don't have because you spent it getting 25% damage on an unsafe vortex when the character you're fighting does 3oish% damage meterless with better setups than Impostor Shinnok.

What do you mean? you do naked low IA Tele into jumpkick then you get a guaranteed D4xxHS on block?

 

[ArmedCalf]

there is a ridiculous amount of unviable variations in this game. Although its not their fault. they all just get destroyed by lao, tanya, quan ect although it is getting better.

I don't know what the connotations for that combo vs tremor is, but you're basically winning the lottery if you pull off something like that.
and i don't think he has a midscreen meterless vortex with mimicry specials vs a third of the cast; maybe like 7 characters. are you forgetting takeda's useless special and Erron Black?
You're seeing things through rose colored glasses. Tremor is a rarity; if the cast was like tremor then it would be a different story. You know how annoying it is to steal a useless special move and to have no good options besides tele when you have no meter.
Meter you don't have because you spent it getting 25% damage on an unsafe vortex when the character you're fighting does 3oish% damage meterless with better setups than Impostor Shinnok.

What do you mean? you do naked low IA Tele into jumpkick then you get a guaranteed D4xxHS on block?

Yeah naked low tele into a slightly delayed njk will jail into d4xxHS. Let's go back to this for a sec too - d4 sparks is pretty damn nice. Aside from the characters with advancing armour specials, if you have 1 bar and you d4xxHS any other character is gonna be scared af to try and punish because you can MB it to launch them. That means you can go nuts with the meter building. Shinnok with a bar is a mind game in itself.

Also he can meterlessly loop Shinnok, Scorpion, Ermac, Mileena, Tanya, Jacqui, Tremor and Quan. I forgot you need 1 bar to loop Erron, Kitana, Kotal and Lao. You can whiff specials if you need to. Reptile's ball is dope, Cassies guns are insanely good and the free damage from F/T is straight broken. Literally the only two specials where I'm like wtf are Jason and Takeda and honestly I don't think I'm even using Takeda's correctly. It's not rose glasses - I just understand that he has some dirt that you can use to your advantage.

 

[Youphemism]

Youphemism i think we've already established that you know nothing about Shinnok after you argued constantly that you could fuzzy B3 and F4 after the impostor mimicry restand.
You can't even understand a simple concept like fuzzy guarding so idk why I'm even replying to you because you probably can't comprehend what I'm typing.

We're not talking about 112 as a punish or when you know its going to land. we're talking about doing the string when the opponents going to block it.

What major are you talking about?

Impostor doesn't do well vs a top 5 character just because he has an unsafe vortex that does barely any damage

Oh that's right I forgot, you're still under the illusion you were right even though Wound agreed with me that it was possible but not easy. I guess you'll just continue to let yourself believe you're right, continue doing nothing with Shinnok

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

Oh that's right I forgot, you're still under the illusion you were right even though Wound agreed with me that it was possible but not easy. I guess you'll just continue to let yourself believe you're right, continue doing nothing with Shinnok

he never agreed with you. He just said it can be fuzzyed off a jumpin which is true. not after mimicry.
I'm sorry that you're too stupid to understand this. I'm also sorry that you use my character
because you're one of the consistently worst posters on this site.

It's a new year Youphemism, maybe you can start it off right by not fucking up the Shinnok forums.
Please, go back to fucking up the Kano forums instead.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

Yeah naked low tele into a slightly delayed njk will jail into d4xxHS. Let's go back to this for a sec too - d4 sparks is pretty damn nice. Aside from the characters with advancing armour specials, if you have 1 bar and you d4xxHS any other character is gonna be scared af to try and punish because you can MB it to launch them. That means you can go nuts with the meter building. Shinnok with a bar is a mind game in itself.

Also he can meterlessly loop Shinnok, Scorpion, Ermac, Mileena, Tanya, Jacqui, Tremor and Quan. I forgot you need 1 bar to loop Erron, Kitana, Kotal and Lao. You can whiff specials if you need to. Reptile's ball is dope, Cassies guns are insanely good and the free damage from F/T is straight broken. Literally the only two specials where I'm like wtf are Jason and Takeda and honestly I don't think I'm even using Takeda's correctly. It's not rose glasses - I just understand that he has some dirt that you can use to your advantage.

Are you sure it jails? I'm trying IA tele close to the ground into NJK and i can still backdash d4. idk, maybe its just requires tight execution...
D4xxHS is pretty good. people are starting to backdash the 3rd MB HS if they read it, though.

I also have problems with him vortexing Jacqui. maybe its gotten easier, but when i found it the link was really tight for that vortex.
He the coolest variation for sure, just wish he was better.

 

[ArmedCalf]

Are you sure it jails? I'm trying IA tele close to the ground into NJK and i can still backdash d4. idk, maybe its just requires tight execution...
D4xxHS is pretty good. people are starting to backdash the 3rd MB HS if they read it, though.

I also have problems with him vortexing Jacqui. maybe its gotten easier, but when i found it the link was really tight for that vortex.
He the coolest variation for sure, just wish he was better.

It's actually very tight, but if you can snag it in a match then people will be scared to back dash so easily. The low link is easy for Jacqui - just a RC f2 but I agree with you on that OH link. It sucks.

 

[STB Damashi]

Check this and you'll see what I mean.

Edit. Also amulet strike is useless against a GM Sub that know about it. I labbed it with a clan mate and sub can actually take a step back and punish you, go under it, whatever he wants depending on the string he uses to set up the ice clone...when using amulet strike as a reversal to his clone. I forget the string sub does, but it's the only string that Shinnok can truly punish clone with amulet strike.

Ah okay. I would've thought that you would have to at least run in and D4~HS. That seems really useful! As for GM Sub, yeah the Ex-Amulet is definitely not that great of a defense in the corner. I'm still trying to search a bit more surrounding that MU

 

[SaSSolino]

I think that if 3 is made a low and amulet is made safe, the post mimicry options Impostor has are going to be way better! if you want a buff, I think this is the best way, slightly helping necro as well.

 

[DownfouralitY]

he never agreed with you. He just said it can be fuzzyed off a jumpin which is true. not after mimicry.
I'm sorry that you're too stupid to understand this. I'm also sorry that you use my character
because you're one of the consistently worst posters on this site.

It's a new year Youphemism, maybe you can start it off right by not fucking up the Shinnok forums.
Please, go back to fucking up the Kano forums instead.

Chill out with the insults, it's really not necessary.

 

[Cameronwinss]

Make MB hell sparks plus 9 on block please. It's not fair how minus his strings are. All of his strings being nothing more than -5 is so unfair and he needs more plus frames.

 

[SaSSolino]

Make MB hell sparks plus 9 on block please. It's not fair how minus his strings are. All of his strings being nothing more than -5 is so dumb and he needs more plus frames.

you know that his d1 is -8, BS's projectile is -12, the hellsparks and his b3 are unsafe? the only full safe string he has is 1123, that starts a high, has a gap and has the 2nd 1 with hitbox issues. his 11 (high starter) is -5, BS's f41 and universal's f22 are very slow and almost impossible to stagger. mb hell sparks are fine.

 

[Cameronwinss]

you know that his d1 is -8, BS's projectile is -12, the hellsparks and his b3 are unsafe? the only full safe string he has is 1123, that starts a high and has the 2nd 1 with hitbox issues. his 11 (high starter) is -5 and f41 is very slow and almost impossible to stagger. mb hell sparks are fine.

I was trolling. I wasn't serious.

 

[SaSSolino]

I was trolling. I wasn't serious.

oh, my bad.

 

[Youphemism]

Lol the guy that says Impostor is unviable says I'm shit. GGs logic.

 

[STB Damashi]

Also, I hope Shinnok steals Pursuit from Jason

 

[STB Damashi]

Yeah naked low tele into a slightly delayed njk will jail into d4xxHS. Let's go back to this for a sec too - d4 sparks is pretty damn nice. Aside from the characters with advancing armour specials, if you have 1 bar and you d4xxHS any other character is gonna be scared af to try and punish because you can MB it to launch them. That means you can go nuts with the meter building. Shinnok with a bar is a mind game in itself.

Also he can meterlessly loop Shinnok, Scorpion, Ermac, Mileena, Tanya, Jacqui, Tremor and Quan. I forgot you need 1 bar to loop Erron, Kitana, Kotal and Lao. You can whiff specials if you need to. Reptile's ball is dope, Cassies guns are insanely good and the free damage from F/T is straight broken. Literally the only two specials where I'm like wtf are Jason and Takeda and honestly I don't think I'm even using Takeda's correctly. It's not rose glasses - I just understand that he has some dirt that you can use to your advantage.

What changes would you make to Takeda or Jason? For Takeda I just purposely whiff his move since you can make it attack close, medium, and far. Jason I can only use it once it is almost the end of the round in order to close it out but other than that it is extremely risky to use in the middle of a match. I was thinking of having the stolen move be Pursuit for Jason, and Kunai for Takeda; thoughts?

 

[ArmedCalf]

What changes would you make to Takeda or Jason? For Takeda I just purposely whiff his move since you can make it attack close, medium, and far. Jason I can only use it once it is almost the end of the round in order to close it out but other than that it is extremely risky to use in the middle of a match. I was thinking of having the stolen move be Pursuit for Jason, and Kunai for Takeda; thoughts?

Yeah I need to start whiffing it more. I go for a vortex off the low and would just use it in a combo off OH but it's dumb. I think whiffing it is the correct way to play the MU. Jason I do what you do because using it anywhere else is suicide. Pursuit would be variation specfic:/ I honestly kind of want choke. At least it's be a combo ender. It couldn't be a command grab because that would break the MU in Shinnok's favor

 

[Eldriken]

Give Shinnok Jason's clothesline instead of Killing Machine.

 

[GAV]

Make his hands bigger or lose the creepy hand movements.

 

[Yobotnorot]

I main shinnok and I think d4 hell sparks should not be a thing . D4 should have 0 cancel but more recovery . I also think his unblock able in boneshaper should pop the enemy up when Meterburned as oppose to hard knockdown .