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Video/Tutorial - Butcher Why You Should Fear This Character (Butcher Resets)

snort

Apprentice
Basically B2 B2 and F1 both do the same job at the same strength. Literally doesn't matter which one you use.
Your at more advantage with F1 after B2 so it's the obvious better choice, your guaranteed F2 or F3 when timed right. With B2 B2 they can armor out if you go for the overhead.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Your at more advantage with F1 after B2 so it's the obvious better choice, your guaranteed F2 or F3 when timed right. With B2 B2 they can armor out if you go for the overhead.
They can armor out of F1 too man. It's +17. Our overhead is 19f and our low is 17f. The gap exists either way.
 

snort

Apprentice
They can armor out of F1 too man. It's +17. Our overhead is 19f and our low is 17f. The gap exists either way.
Yea that's true but I remember testing it and for some reason their was no gap when timed right, maybe wrong frame data. I'll double check it tomorrow because I'm dead tired and about to go sleep. But either way, F1 should be the go to.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Idk about f1. There was a huge convo between myself and @Rip Torn about f1 on hit. I don't think it actually guarantees the low.

The only truly inescapable one I'm aware of is deep j2 after b2. idk.

They cant armor or use a fast backdash after b2 on hit?
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Idk about f1. There was a huge convo between myself and @Rip Torn about f1 on hit. I don't think it actually guarantees the low.

The only truly inescapable one I'm aware of is deep j2 after b2. idk.

They cant armor or use a fast backdash after b2 on hit?
There's also doing one B2 and delaying the mixup to make it have no gap. There you are ABSURDLY plus kind of like with JiP2 but yea after B2/B2 there is a gap. F1 doesnt make it inescapable at all as you mentioned.
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
This is good stuff, already been doing almost the same setup for quite some time.

The only normal that guarantees you f2 or f3 is very deep jip2. Of anything else neither is guaranteed. b2 into b2 does more dmg then f1 thats why its preferred. Adv (on hit) on both is almost the same so its always good to get max dmg.

If only Butcher had decent mids... Anyway im loving this character and playing him a lot.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Idk about f1. There was a huge convo between myself and @Rip Torn about f1 on hit. I don't think it actually guarantees the low.

The only truly inescapable one I'm aware of is deep j2 after b2. idk.

They cant armor or use a fast backdash after b2 on hit?
Yeah, deep ji2 was the only one that gave enough hit advantage to guarantee the 50/50. They can mash backdash or armor otherwise. F1 leaves almost no gap though so it's very difficult to armor out of the low because you can't buffer the input. It's like hitting a one frame link to armor out. I can backdash every time though because it allows you to buffer a backdash out of hitstun, so it always comes out on the first frame. Even X-Ray is difficult to do after f1 because it is also like a one frame link.

Then there is the whole issue with meaty f1, which I assume can be as much as +21 based on the frame data. So if you hit a max range f1, you can probably guarantee the OH and low. even just hitting on the second active frame of f1 would guarantee the low at least.

B2, B2 is also hard to armor out of but seems to leave an extra frame in the gap maybe?

I don't know about a single B2 and then delayed 50/50... Does that work?

Bottom line is that deep ji2 was the only one that forced them to block the 50/50 but it's hard to hit a deep ji2 off a b2 (not sure if it's even possible). You can usually hit the deep ji2 after sparks though.

The best thing to do is probably f1. If they start backdashing, there are ways to catch them with ex OH bop. I think you can catch certain characters with f12 as well.

B2,B2 is also really good but it just happens very slowly, so I think it gives the opponent more time to react with backdash or armor.

Needs more testing but those are my conclusions. Feel free to test some shit. I've been wrong about stuff before so don't take this as absolute fact.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Yeah, deep ji2 was the only one that gave enough hit advantage to guarantee the 50/50. They can mash backdash or armor otherwise. F1 leaves almost no gap though so it's very difficult to armor out of the low because you can't buffer the input. It's like hitting a one frame link to armor out. I can backdash every time though because it allows you to buffer a backdash out of hitstun, so it always comes out on the first frame. Even X-Ray is difficult to do after f1 because it is also like a one frame link.

Then there is the whole issue with meaty f1, which I assume can be as much as +21 based on the frame data. So if you hit a max range f1, you can probably guarantee the OH and low. even just hitting on the second active frame of f1 would guarantee the low at least.

B2, B2 is also hard to armor out of but seems to leave an extra frame in the gap maybe?

I don't know about a single B2 and then delayed 50/50... Does that work?

Bottom line is that deep ji2 was the only one that forced them to block the 50/50 but it's hard to hit a deep ji2 off a b2 (not sure if it's even possible). You can usually hit the deep ji2 after sparks though.

The best thing to do is probably f1. If they start backdashing, there are ways to catch them with ex OH bop. I think you can catch certain characters with f12 as well.

B2,B2 is also really good but it just happens very slowly, so I think it gives the opponent more time to react with backdash or armor.

Needs more testing but those are my conclusions. Feel free to test some shit. I've been wrong about stuff before so don't take this as absolute fact.
B2/B2 into Overhead catches a ton of backdashes. not sure if the low option does. I THINK B2 into delayed mix leaves no gap but I gotta test that.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
B2/B2 into Overhead catches a ton of backdashes. not sure if the low option does. I THINK B2 into delayed mix leaves no gap but I gotta test that.
I think the low option can catch backdashes if you do a short delay while walking forward.
 

snort

Apprentice
So I labbed it for a little bit earlier and you can backdash both F2 and F3 off of either B2B2 or B2F2. It seems that everyone can backdash F3 and most of the cast can backdash F2 after B2B2 or B2F1 successfully. Anyhow, this isn't a bad thing because after B2B2 or B2F1 you can F12 their backdash into a full combo once they're conditioned.