General/Other - Swarm Queen Why the second D'Vorah nerf is unnecessary

[Altsa]

Well, my b1 cancels were inconsistent anyways so I consider them removed from the game.

Good luck to all Swarm Queens at CEO. I hope you can adjust in time.

 

[ChatterBox]

The thing that surprises me is the second change seems to go against NRS patching policy. This is the first time I can remember them making combos harder while keeping them in the game. Especially if you look at MKX, they either remove combos or make them easier and possible, never harder. They've added/increased juggles, fixed hitboxes, and changed hit advantage. It feels like they wanted them out for her and messed up, I could be wrong but that's my thought today.

For everyone who talks about Street Fighters one frame links, please remember that this is mortal kombat and demanding those execution skills is what Ed Boon is constantly campaigning against.

 

[Take$$$]

The thing that surprises me is the second change seems to go against NRS patching policy. This is the first time I can remember them making combos harder while keeping them in the game. Especially if you look at MKX, they either remove combos or make them easier and possible, never harder. They've added/increased juggles, fixed hitboxes, and changed hit advantage. It feels like they wanted them out for her and messed up, I could be wrong but that's my thought today.

For everyone who talks about Street Fighters one frame links, please remember that this is mortal kombat and demanding those execution skills is what Ed Boon is constantly campaigning against.

Agreed with the last part, but people will nail these eventually if they stay as is. It's just dumb.

I think the reason behind them was what Krayzie and Ducky said, I don't think they tried to make them 1 frame links. I think they were just lazy and picked 3 frames since its a safe option and didn't bother testing 1 or 2 frames.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

My sentiments are the same.

@Blind_Ducky while you do provide some meaning insight as to NRSs possible motivations for the nerf, I've still yet to hear any explanation for the change. Perhaps it was their intentions were to nerf F112 pressure. But to what point? Why is it necessary to nerf said pressure? What is the purpose, the benefit to the community? Because I don't think there is one.

Ugh hello she got an uninterrupted 50/50 off of f112 bug cancel pre patch. Am I the only one who thinks that's bat shit crazy? That needed to go. Hell it STILL needs to be nerfed. Now she gets a 50/50 where you can armor if you read overhead but the low is still free. Also if you don't have bar it's essentially the same as pre patch.

The main problem is that it's right before a major, one of the most annoying parts I suppose for all you Dvorah players.

Yeah I agree. I'm one of the people affected by this.

I don't see how I'm not being clear about my opinion.

I don't like that it's harder to her combos. However I just accept it because they still work and I know I'll be doing these. No reason to cry like a self entitled child about this.

I don't like that I don't have adequate time to re learn the timing before a major. It's unfortunate but there's nothing I can do about it.

 

[ZATA]

being a casual online player like me, what´s the motivation to use SQ? 1F links online is just LOL, i´m gonna swich to venomous.

 

[Saviorself]

Ugh hello she got an uninterrupted 50/50 off of f112 bug cancel pre patch. Am I the only one who thinks that's bat shit crazy? That needed to go. Hell it STILL needs to be nerfed. Now she gets a 50/50 where you can armor if you read overhead but the low is still free. Also if you don't have bar it's essentially the same as pre patch.


Yeah I agree. I'm one of the people affected by this.

I don't see how I'm not being clear about my opinion.

I don't like that it's harder to her combos. However I just accept it because they still work and I know I'll be doing these. No reason to cry like a self entitled child about this.

I don't like that I don't have adequate time to re learn the timing before a major. It's unfortunate but there's nothing I can do about it.

God I hope you place higher than honeyBee to justify you shitting on him for no reason

 

[Qwark28]

I wonder if these are really 1 frame links or just the typical TYM poster's "hmm this is hard to do, so its 1f link"

 

[Blind_Ducky]

God I hope you place higher than honeyBee to justify you shitting on him for no reason

What does this have to do with anything?

 

[Red Reaper]

It was like 4, and it's 2f bc of SF4 mechanics. Sorry for double post. I also personally think DVorah cancels are more difficult to get consistently due to game mechanics in general.

That's with plinking, turning them into mashable 2 frame links.
MKX does not allow any mashing.

^This...

Also it's not just a 1 frame link... It's a run kancel INTO a 1 frame link.

@HoneyBee Now some of the kombos might not even work from some distances and maybe even some characters....

 

[ChatterBox]

Agreed with the last part, but people will nail these eventually if they stay as is. It's just dumb.

Oh yea I have faith in our community to nail them, I've even got them fine in training mode and I'm terrible. 1f links are still inconsistent in tournament. I can provide plenty of examples of dropped ones, they just don't make the highlight reel, and that's with plinking.

I think the reason behind them was what Krayzie and Ducky said, I don't think they tried to make them 1 frame links. I think they were just lazy and picked 3 frames since its a safe option and didn't bother testing 1 or 2 frames.

Valid opinion, still a sad mistake either way. Until they change this again in either direction we won't know. It just feels so incongruent.

 

[Take$$$]

Ugh hello she got an uninterrupted 50/50 off of f112 bug cancel pre patch. Am I the only one who thinks that's bat shit crazy? That needed to go. Hell it STILL needs to be nerfed. Now she gets a 50/50 where you can armor if you read overhead but the low is still free. Also if you don't have bar it's essentially the same as pre patch.


Yeah I agree. I'm one of the people affected by this.

I don't see how I'm not being clear about my opinion.

I don't like that it's harder to her combos. However I just accept it because they still work and I know I'll be doing these. No reason to cry like a self entitled child about this.

I don't like that I don't have adequate time to re learn the timing before a major. It's unfortunate but there's nothing I can do about it.

He's not crying though, he's understandably frustrated at this very lazy change and wants a solid answer as I'm sure many do. I think I have an idea of why, but even that's not good. A quick fix that would serve their purpose and help would be to make her hold it for 1 or 2 frames instead of 3, so why not try to bring some attention to it? There's nothing we can do about it by CEO, true, but maybe by bringing attention to it something will happen soon. They're not going to do anything if no one says anything.

I'm pretty sure we're all prepared to get these down again, but it would be nice to not have to rely on 1 frame links for 2 important combos, especially considering how close EVO is too.

 

[Saviorself]

What does this have to do with anything?

NRS has shown a tendency to nerf/buff on community reaction. You guys are both high level dvorah players but you're shitting on him for complaining when the character gets nerfed. If everyone agreed, maybe some changes could occur to revert nerfs or make NRS aware of their bad reasoning.

Hes the only player reppin' dvorah and placing high at these tournaments so his opinion is relevant in the character thus far in the game's life.

I want you to place higher so it can prove that your reasoning was more valid and to justify you crapping on him and others because their the character got hit with a non meta nerf for no reason.

edit: i don't know why i'm being so polite...it's the FGC so....if you talk shit, better prove you're right.

 

[HoneyBee]

I wonder if these are really 1 frame links or just the typical TYM poster's "hmm this is hard to do, so its 1f link"

It's a 1 frame link.

 

[MadMagician86]

Ugh hello she got an uninterrupted 50/50 off of f112 bug cancel pre patch. Am I the only one who thinks that's bat shit crazy? That needed to go. Hell it STILL needs to be nerfed. Now she gets a 50/50 where you can armor if you read overhead but the low is still free. Also if you don't have bar it's essentially the same as pre patch.

I don't think the 50/50 is crazy at all. It requires high levels of execution, the overhead has to be hit confirmed to full combo and is reversible, the low is insanely unsafe and it doesn't full combo, not to mention that it could be counted by taking a single punch. There is absolutely no reason for that to change. Her pseudo 50/50 is the BnB of her offense. It helps to round her out as a character by offsetting some of her deficiencies such as a lack of anti zoning tools and shitty wakeups.

It's not like D'vorah mains were running rampant through tournaments. No one saw this pressure and switched mains or pocketed a D'vorah because of it. It didn't create any matchup advantages that didn't already exist for her. One extremely talented pro player is able to place top 8 with D'vorah here and there and she very rarely wins a tournament. I don't see how anyone could make an argument that this character was unfair to play against as she was and needed to be changed to level the playing field.

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

Join the " NRS nerfed my fucking character squad ". I'm a long term member

same

 

[Take$$$]

I don't think the 50/50 is crazy at all. It requires high levels of execution, the overhead has to be hit confirmed to full combo and is reversible, the low is insanely unsafe and it doesn't full combo, not to mention that it could be counted by taking a single punch. There is absolutely no reason for that to change. Her pseudo 50/50 is the BnB of her offense. It helps to round her out as a character by offsetting some of her deficiencies such as a lack of anti zoning tools and shitty wakeups.

It's not like D'vorah mains were running rampant through tournaments. No one saw this pressure and switched mains or pocketed a D'vorah because of it. It didn't create any matchup advantages that didn't already exist for her. One extremely talented pro player is able to place top 8 with D'vorah here and there and she very rarely wins a tournament. I don't see how anyone could make an argument that this character was unfair to play against as she was and needed to be changed to level the playing field.

Getting a guaranteed free 50/50 off a block string was retarded, even if they could just eat the last hit. Sure it may have been very high execution, but things shouldn't be balanced by how hard they are to do. This thread isn't complaining about the f112 nerf. That nerf is fine. Her low is also 100% safe, and was safe off the blockstring too.

 

[PPJ]

omg

 

[sling1414]

Guess NRS wanted more skill t be involved in order to get something that good out of dvorah? Thats all i can come up with, other than that theres really no point in the nerf

 

[Bizzle PB]

What exactly is Honey Bee asking for by starting this thread? He IS in fact complaining. He is unhappy with the change. He is voicing it. That is called complaining.

Why don't you tell us Honey Bee? What is it that you want? For someone to tell you "yea this is BS!" Or for NRS to say "sorry Honey Bee, we messed up". All this ends up being is a senseless thread for whining and crying.

 

[Take$$$]

What exactly is Honey Bee asking for by starting this thread? He IS in fact complaining. He is unhappy with the change. He is voicing it. That is called complaining.

Why don't you tell us Honey Bee? What is it that you want? For someone to tell you "yea this is BS!" Or for NRS to say "sorry Honey Bee, we messed up". All this ends up being is a senseless thread for whining and crying.

He wants this to get noticed so NRS reduces the amount of frames you have to hold the wasp grenade by 1 or 2, which is not unreasonable at all.

 

[STRYKIE]

Oh boy

You see that racism from Strykie right there? Accusing me of stealing accounts just because I'm black.

 

[MadMagician86]

Getting a guaranteed free 50/50 off a block string was retarded, even if they could just eat the last hit. Sure it may have been very high execution, but things shouldn't be balanced by how hard they are to do. This thread isn't complaining about the f112 nerf. That nerf is fine. Her low is also 100% safe, and was safe off the blockstring too.

I must be missing something. Lots of character have 50/50s. Why is it crazy with D'vorah?

Also I must be doing the wrong low off of the 50/50. I thought we were referring to the B1,2,air throw string, which is super unsafe, is that not the case?

I understand that the F112 nerf wasn't the center of discussion as the implications weren't as big, but it was the only that someone actually stated why they thought it was a good change. I've still yet to see anyone provide insight as to why the WC frame rate increase was necessary. Only thing that keeps coming up is "it happened, quit crying about it or switch character". Which is neither relevant or necessary.

 

[haketh]

Meanwhile, in Venomous and Brood Mother...

Venomous is still fine but man, I saw that huge list & was salivating about possible Brood Mother buffs

 

[Bizzle PB]

He wants this to get noticed so NRS reduces the amount of frames you have to hold the wasp grenade by 1 or 2, which is not unreasonable at all.

So how does that work? If we use the forum they will change it back?

I say it is a good change for balance. Keep it NRS.

 

[Take$$$]

I must be missing something. Lots of character have 50/50s. Why is it crazy with D'vorah?

Also I must be doing the wrong low off of the 50/50. I thought we were referring to the B1,2,air throw string, which is super unsafe, is that not the case?

I understand that the F112 nerf wasn't the center of discussion as the implications weren't as big, but it was the only that someone actually stated why they thought it was a good change. I've still yet to see anyone provide insight as to why the WC frame rate increase was necessary. Only thing that keeps coming up is "it happened, quit crying about it or switch character". Which is neither relevant or necessary.

D'Vorah does have a 50/50, which can still be set up with d1. The optimal low off f112 was b1 wc bnb, which is safe.

f112 wc is still a great pressure tool being +11 or so. If they want to get out safely they have to armor, since you can still catch the backdash and no normal or regular special will beat anything you have.

So how does that work? If we use the forum they will change it back?

I say it is a good change for balance. Keep it NRS.

I mean, I highly doubt they intended for b1 and 112 wcs to turn into 1 frame links, so if they get word of it yeah I'm confident they'll lower the amount of frames you have to hold the wasp grenade.

It's not a good change for balance because it doesn't make her any worse, better, or balance her in any way, it just makes her more difficult for no real reason.