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Question - A-List Why Johnny Cage is still an A-Lister

its_ezie

Apprentice
i think if johnny could cancel things like in a list his fisticuffs would probsbly be his best because of the coooooonstant chip
 

mrKrucifix

Just call me Kruce
i would actually like to know (if there even is one) a 38%+ corner combo in a list, i cant seem to figure one out since nutpunch doesn't come out as fast as in stunt double. anyone?
Closest I've gotten/seen is 36% for 1 bar in A-List. You could possibly get more with more meter, maybe.
 

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
After learning what his D4 does, yeah he's dope and clearly top tier potential with a good player.
That's why I made this thread, people are SERIOUSLY sleeping on how incredibly annoying D4 is. It honestly reminds me of MK9 Mileena and Sonya, lowers your hitbox, sick range, can't punish it. One of the very nice buffs we got that people don't appreciate
 

Onilordasmodeus

My GT: UncappedWheel82
having to earn your wins more = hes harder to win with = hes not as good in a tournament setting.
You should probably fix that to say "He's not that good in a tournament setting...this early on due to everyone still learning how to play the game."

In general Execution doesn't hold a character back, it just take longer for players to really get their mind around the requirements of said character.
 

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
You should probably fix that to say "He's not that good in a tournament setting...this early on due to everyone still learning how to play the game."

In general Execution doesn't hold a character back, it just take longer for players to really get their mind around the requirements of said character.
Exactly, that's why I'll continue to use the Kabal example. Not many people realized just how good he was when the game came out. Everybody was all over Raiden/Reptile/KL. JC is going to require more work, that doesn't mean he doesn't have the tools necessary to completely blow up a character, which I do feel he does.
 

Red King

One ugly motherfucker!
i would actually like to know (if there even is one) a 38%+ corner combo in a list, i cant seem to figure one out since nutpunch doesn't come out as fast as in stunt double. anyone?
Here's some 1 metered ones:

db[4], 12 12 12 12 114 xx ex np, 1 xx np - 40%

Alternately

db[4], 12 12 4 xx ex np, 12 12 np - 40%

The only problem is getting the db[4] to hit. At a glance this doesn't look like it has much practical application cause it has massive start-up from the charged hit, however, you don't need to charge the db4 all the way in order for it to combo. I've made great use of this in my pressure game in a few ways; Johnny's 113 xx np string got predictable fast - mix it up by doing 113 xx db[4] xx rc 113 xx np and occasionally follow through with the db[4] instead of doing the run cancel to keep them guessing.
 

Kensou

Noob
I posted this in another thread about Johnny and I think it's more appropriate here. So here you go =D

Honestly it doesn't matter if Dizzy or Tom Brady or my next door neighbor tested Johnny. It's up to US the players, the Johnny community to help develop his long term strats and tactics. Sure NRS will step in and fix somethings as they see fit based on the community be it hard core competitive, non competitive, or simply just MK enthusiast, feed back is feed back. That aside Johnny does have his fair share of problems in this game as does many others. His inside game just about requires you (the player) to decipher what's right for the given situation at hand. Do you want to corner carry? End your combos in Shadow Kick. Do you want the 3 way mixup (high/low/throw)? End in Nut Punch. Do you want to bait reversal wake ups and punish? Don't end the combo with a special ender and stay next to them. The point I'm making here is that you have options.

Now as for closing the distance, you have little to no choice but to play the footsie game till you can get inside your optimal poking range of F3 and D3/4. It sucks but you have to be patient. Johnny is really strong in the corner as that's where most of your GREAT damage comes from. In mid screen you get GOOD damage that's consistent. You should try to check your opponents with F3, D1, D3, D4, canceled into Force Ball or even EX Force Ball to gain some respect when playing footsies. Its not fool proof that's for sure but you can't start much of anything without that. When they start to respect it then you start mixing in the Run Cancels and Dash Cancels, the most important aspect of A-list. You have to be mindful of your stamina gauge as when you RC from say F3, the gauge isn't consumed has heavily as opposed to using Shadow Kick RC's. You may want to mix in some dash cancels to offset the RC's and make them guess the pressure game from that point. It's not free but the goal is to create a panic scenario for the opponent. You can in THEORY crouch guard him all day in maybe most instances because his low starter game isn't all there. So you HAVE to CONDITION them to crouching if you want that F2,4 to connect, and even then you can keep pressuring them with EX FB if available to gain some frame advantage.

On block yes his punish game could be better but you gain pressure that corner carries which again is another strong point of A-List which is corner carry. If you can execute F3, 4 RC x2 you've pushed them substantially closer to the corner than almost anyone in the game. You also have to consider that the carry is not only on hit but also on block...pretty strong if you ask me. As for the T-Rex arms, yeah I agree on that one in terms of using 1 as a starter. I've defaulted to using 2 as a starter as it's the same speed (9f) with more range. On the note of damage again, there are a ton of posters posting great damage inside the corner so keep that position again in mind. Even his throw sets the enemy up a far which on one end seems bad but when you consider the ground you gain from it, its pretty substantial. To top it off when they get thrown into the corner it automatically will make them think "Oh snap, I'm cornered" right away. But now that you're there you can really put on the pressure and force the mistakes. Most characters (I've fought) can hardly contest F3 when you know how to use this move which will take some matchup exp training to know the instances.

Either way, I could write a dissertation on how I think you should approach A-List but the above should be a great start. He's strong, just hang in there it'll take more time to develop him than say Jin. Just gotta put in the work and don't let a tester not maining him throw off what YOU enjoy.

-Cheers mate-
 

Matador Fiend

Kombatant
He dont got dirt or good blockstrings like other chars. F3 cancel only makes it +1 and its an 11 frame move. It can be combo punished or poked depending on the character.

I like his stunt double variation the best now because i think it offers some pressure and the best utility. I dont think hes as good as many other chars but can be fun to use

Fisticuffs is dumb and really offers nothing. Fist bump doesnt last long and puts you like -45 and cant be canceled into a move like the mimic. The speedbag combo has like a 13f startup and is ok for trolling noobs but not much else
 

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
I hate saying it, but JC only seems worth using if you truly like him, not because he's good. I feel his entire gameplan, Cassie (Hollywood) can do better. I feel like SD/A-List in MK9 would be top tier. This game (that basically is a 50/50 fest), doesn't seem to reward you for guessing right (isn't that the point?) as well as others. Can you win with him? Of course, yes. But yeah,
 

Matador Fiend

Kombatant
I hate saying it, but JC only seems worth using if you truly like him, not because he's good. I feel his entire gameplan, Cassie (Hollywood) can do better. I feel like SD/A-List in MK9 would be top tier. This game (that basically is a 50/50 fest), doesn't seem to reward you for guessing right (isn't that the point?) as well as others. Can you win with him? Of course, yes. But yeah,
Not to be a dick, but did someone kick your ass? Almoat everyone has been saying what you said in this post, but it seems like in your other posts you just were saying they were wrong and jc was great in this game
 

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
Not to be a dick, but did someone kick your ass? Almoat everyone has been saying what you said in this post, but it seems like in your other posts you just were saying they were wrong and jc was great in this game
Look at the dates of my posts. When the game came out (before it was discovered it was a giant 50/50 fest), I felt JC would not only be viable, but possibly top tier. But after putting in a ton of time (winning and losing both, almost made it out of my pool at TX Showdown), I feel in THIS game, JC has to work too hard to do what others have an easier time doing. I'll always love JC, like I said, I hope something changes

I also said people shouldn't panic on Day 3 and make wild assumptions that he sucks. Let the game breathe (it's been a month now) before making conclusions. I put a ton of time into something, espeically if it's new, before giving an opinion
 

Rodney Quillz

Kombatant
Look at the dates of my posts. When the game came out (before it was discovered it was a giant 50/50 fest), I felt JC would not only be viable, but possibly top tier. But after putting in a ton of time (winning and losing both, almost made it out of my pool at TX Showdown), I feel in THIS game, JC has to work too hard to do what others have an easier time doing. I'll always love JC, like I said, I hope something changes

I also said people shouldn't panic on Day 3 and make wild assumptions that he sucks. Let the game breathe (it's been a month now) before making conclusions. I put a ton of time into something, espeically if it's new, before giving an opinion
i don't know what it is, some things don't make sense. I almost think that they made f3 hella negative on block as a troll lol. It's his best footsie tool besides d4 and its 11 frames and -8. Yes there are things to make it safe in a-list and sd(at the cost of clones which reboot hella slow(wtf!) but what about fisticuffs? This damn variation almost seems completely useless lol.

And f4 wants to be an anti air so bad but it's 13 frames when most jump attacks are 6 and 7 and crushing most uppercuts!(wtf)

Do I want simplicity like mk9? no not really but it's obvious to me and it seems everyone else too that the character needs some minor tweaks to compete with the big dogs or at least compete with their fleas lol.

He's fun as hell to use though, that hasn't changed at least.
 

Epy69zSmallBoys

No respect for Kung Jin
i don't know what it is, some things don't make sense. I almost think that they made f3 hella negative on block as a troll lol. It's his best footsie tool besides d4 and its 11 frames and -8. Yes there are things to make it safe in a-list and sd(at the cost of clones which reboot hella slow(wtf!) but what about fisticuffs? This damn variation almost seems completely useless lol.

And f4 wants to be an anti air so bad but it's 13 frames when most jump attacks are 6 and 7 and crushing most uppercuts!(wtf)

Do I want simplicity like mk9? no not really but it's obvious to me and it seems everyone else too that the character needs some minor tweaks to compete with the big dogs or at least compete with their fleas lol.

He's fun as hell to use though, that hasn't changed at least.
^^^^^THIS^^^^^
 

Epy69zSmallBoys

No respect for Kung Jin
Seriously, what are you guys using for an AA into combo? D1 gets blown up, I can SOMETIMES get a F3 but then I can't do anything afterwords, and my uppercut gets blown up wayyyy too often. Standing 1 is f**king useless.