Why is no one talking about how bad anti-airs are in this game?

[Groove Heaven]

I mean really. I kept telling myself for months that the issue was with me, that I suck and my reactions are bad and that I should be catching jumpers. After continuously trying to improve in that area, watching a lot of tournament videos/pro streams, and especially after seeing the thread where REO compiled data that showed that jumps are overhwelmingly not being anti-aired, it's starting to seem to me like jump kicks need serious retooling. I'm not saying it's impossible but it feels far too common where I know they're gonna jump and still eat shit for trying to stop them.

At the end of the day...in this game the risk/reward feels heavily in favor of the jumper and that's very detrimental to the meta of a game that's meant to emphasize neutral and a good ground game. I'm really enjoying MK11 on the whole but this really hurts it both in terms of playing and spectating. Maybe I suck (actually I definitely suck), but the pros don't and seeing jump kicks get blocked 4/5 times in tournament for free plus frames is disgusting.

 

[FonicSox]

REO put together some interesting data on the # of anti-airs vs successful jump-ins spanning the top 8s of the last three majors.

A bunch of people tried disregarding the data as inconclusive and lacking in context; but a 10:1 ratio favoring the jumps needs anything but greater context. It tells the story quite well by itself. Either jump kicks are too good or anti-airs are not good enough.

Either that or our best players are just trash, whatever takeaway suits the preferred narrative I suppose.

 

[ExpectFlames]

Yeah with a little bit of extra effort you could play cetrion. Amazing s1 aa but THE SINGLE BEST MOST BUSTED AA with d4. Which for the record destroys all jump ins every one everytime regardless of distance. As long as it comes out relative to the time the jump attack was committed boom instant punish.

 

[DayAlreadySucks]

Don’t forget about the fact that you can throw someone after they block a jump in.

 

[Plays2_MX]

Don’t forget about the fact that you can throw someone after they block a jump in.

Yeah, deep jik being between +11 & +15 on block is crazy.

 

[Error404]

Because anti-airs are not bad in this game. Every character can anti-air you for a combo.

Don’t forget about the fact that you can throw someone after they block a jump in.

Not while they're in blockstun from the jump normal. You have to wait ,otherwise the throw whiffs.

 

[Gaxkang]

I mean really. I kept telling myself for months that the issue was with me, that I suck and my reactions are bad and that I should be catching jumpers. After continuously trying to improve in that area, watching a lot of tournament videos/pro streams, and especially after seeing the thread where REO compiled data that showed that jumps are overhwelmingly not being anti-aired, it's starting to seem to me like jump kicks need serious retooling. I'm not saying it's impossible but it feels far too common where I know they're gonna jump and still eat shit for trying to stop them.

At the end of the day...in this game the risk/reward feels heavily in favor of the jumper and that's very detrimental to the meta of a game that's meant to emphasize neutral and a good ground game. I'm really enjoying MK11 on the whole but this really hurts it both in terms of playing and spectating. Maybe I suck (actually I definitely suck), but the pros don't and seeing jump kicks get blocked 4/5 times in tournament for free plus frames is disgusting.

It's not particularly good, no. Injustice 2 I felt wasn't great with anti-airing either.

By instinct you want to use D2's...but only some characters have good ones for that. The game wants to you to do S1...anti-air jab. Unless a character has a bad one...then one has to block, which is bad.

Anti-airing by reaction will often lead to disappointment. It's like anti-airing works strictly in the game's way of doing it and that's it...and it's not geared towards reaction.

To compare with SFV...most jumps people eat in MK11 would be easily anti-aired in SFV.

 

[BarakaTile]

Why? Because I play Kollector who, if he can't aa and then combo you, he will treat you like a volleyball with his d2 or he will swat you away with his b3.

 

[Gaxkang]

Don’t forget about the fact that you can throw someone after they block a jump in.

You can try, at least...it's kinda inconsistent. You will either catch the person with the throw easy, or you will eat a mashed D2 (and krushing blow combo).

 

[Rasssta48]

You should flawless block it, anyway you're lose nothing for try

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Certain JIK's are harder to AA like D'Vorah's J1, Kabals J2, Baraka J3, Geras JD+2.
But for the most part I can consistently AA jump INS.
If I ever have an issue AAing anything I usually Flawless Block U+2 or Trip Guard which has 100% success rate when done properly unless its vs something like D'Vorah's J1.

But yes some JIKs are very strong. AA's are not bad its certain jump INS are Hurtboxless where your AA doesn't connect with their hurtbox.

If anyone can't AA just use Cassie's B3 which AA's everything.

 

[Kenshi-Keanu-Kool]

I mean really. I kept telling myself for months that the issue was with me, that I suck and my reactions are bad and that I should be catching jumpers. After continuously trying to improve in that area, watching a lot of tournament videos/pro streams, and especially after seeing the thread where REO compiled data that showed that jumps are overhwelmingly not being anti-aired, it's starting to seem to me like jump kicks need serious retooling. I'm not saying it's impossible but it feels far too common where I know they're gonna jump and still eat shit for trying to stop them.

At the end of the day...in this game the risk/reward feels heavily in favor of the jumper and that's very detrimental to the meta of a game that's meant to emphasize neutral and a good ground game. I'm really enjoying MK11 on the whole but this really hurts it both in terms of playing and spectating. Maybe I suck (actually I definitely suck), but the pros don't and seeing jump kicks get blocked 4/5 times in tournament for free plus frames is disgusting.

Thank gud they are bad lol i remember paying MK9 and all the smoke players would wait the all match so they could show off there " high level AA " bs IQ . Smoke was a killing machine but all they did was S2 LOL It was like their dick grow 5 inches everytime they landed that S2 LOL

 

[Vslayer]

I can't hear you over Cassie's B3.

 

[GLoRToR]

Except Reo all the time

 

[John Grizzly]

I find the anti-airs in this game to be much more consistent than they were in MKX. I play Shao Kahn and his standing 1 catches just about everyone. I know there are a lot of characters with really good options.

I have complaints about the game, but anti-airs aren't one of them.

 

[OutworldKeith]

You should flawless block it, anyway you're lose nothing for try

Most Jump ins are still plus after a Flawless Block. Also, most characters get trash damage from u2 block attack.

I feel like it’s one of those situations where it’s better to block.

 

[Rasssta48]

I feel like it’s one of those situations where it’s better to block.

As i already say - you lose nothing for try because of blockstun from jk, if you fail you simply block it, OS of some sort

 

[SaSSolino]

Anti airs being lackluster and throws are what ruined the game for me, and to think the base game was so good too. Also terrible hitboxes.

 

[Eldriken]

Anti airs being lackluster and throws are what ruined the game for me, and to think the base game was so good too. Also terrible hitboxes.

I stand by what I and others have said for a while now: we don't have hurt/hitbox displays in training because they're so fucked that it would blow our minds seeing it in full detail.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of them reached to the sky. I hope this shit gets fixed for a change.

 

[MKF30]

I think it balances out since the jumps are slow and floaty AF in this game, some characters you can AA from a mile away. But if you seriously want to AA just pick Jade, Shao Kahn, Subby etc their AA D2's are beyond good in this game. I don't think the AA's are THAT bad, just different timing since I've been AA with jabs and D3's in this game while trying to get a jump in starter.

 

[The_Tile]

It is literally just the JiKs that are stupid, all JiPs can be consistently anti aired if you space yourself right in my experience.

However the JiKs might need to be toned down, certain ones like Baraka and Geras, off the top of my head, are just impossible to anti air.

 

[JSF]

anti air's are actualyl not bad but jump kicks are broken and jumping itself is too good. but if you look at the anti air's as moves alone they arent that bad they just dont have a place in this game with its ridiculous jump ins

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I think people might be exaggerating a little here. JIK's are definitely strong mostly because they can do em at different timing changing when to AA. But they are far from invincible. Even Geras's Jump in D+2 body splash is AA able.

There are options and plenty of moves that low profile them or move your hurtbox out of reach.
Like:
Cassie's B3
Liu's D3
Kabal's D3/D4
D'Vorah's DF2
Kollector's s2
. all of these will overide even the best JIK's in the game.
That's not all either you have universal options to AA them like:

• Flawless Block (20% minimum)
• Trip Guard, just walk back there is more than 35f notice to react. And you get easy 30% with most 25% minimum.

Then we have very decent options that are far from bad:

• S1's/D1/D3 nearly everyone's S1 is good enough to AA the average JIK especially when they do the same timing every time.
• Spacing: you can stay out of JIK range threatening trip guard if they attempt.

Are JIKs strong? Yes
Are they unbeatable? No

If anything was to be done Id rather More characters get better options similar to Cassie's B3 or Cetrion's S1 so JIK's like Barakas is easier for some characters to AA.

 

[DayAlreadySucks]

It is literally just the JiKs that are stupid, all JiPs can be consistently anti aired if you space yourself right in my experience.

However the JiKs might need to be toned down, certain ones like Baraka and Geras, off the top of my head, are just impossible to anti air.

Baraka’s jump 3 is just crazy. I have a bud that plays Baraka and I have to train myself to never try to contest the air to air game with him since I’ll always lose.

 

[ExpectFlames]

It always confuses me when people talk about AA in injustice 2 or mkx. I mean Injustice b2 for F3 obliterated jump ins and mkx everyone had a special good against most jump attacks spin ball roll flip kick come to mind

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

MK9's aa's were lovely because jump attacks had universal animations across the roster. Learn your AA timing and spacing, and it'll be the same against everyone pretty much.