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Why is Kabal's FB better than everyone eles's?

Wrenchfarm

Wrenchfarm

Lexcorp Proprietary Technologies
One thing I noticed in the beta is that not all FBs are created equally. Jade's reaches a little further than some, but is slow and looks like it should be an overhead but isn't. Skarlet's seems like it might be a little faster but is kinda stubby? Scorpion and Baraka seems pretty middle of the road and what I'd expect the majority of FBs to look like.

But none of them can do what Kabal can. His FB provides him with a full screen projectile and jump punish. When Kabal has FB, it represents a huge shift in the fight. You can't zone anymore and you need to be verrrrry careful with your movement, which can be difficult since he can still zone you as he pleases. Basically, you have to play his game. With the other FBs, you need to be careful and watch out for desperation wake-ups, counter-pokes, and people wilding out, but Kabal gains this noticeably huge tactical advantage.

I'm not really complaining. I mean, this is super familiar to playing against a Superman or Flash with a full meter in IJ, and I like the tension of shifting dynamics during a fight. I just don't get the design. By all accounts Kabal is a very strong character. I could see giving a somewhat weaker or more tricky character a stronger come back mechanic to help prop them up a bit, but Kabal has a lot going for him already.

What do you think? Do you like this kind of tiered Fatal Blow where some seem a little handier than others? Or do you think they should be very similar between characters? And yes, IB4 "I think all FBs are bad and shouldn't be in the game."

Personally I'm torn. I actually like the idea that some FBs have a different flavor and can change the conditions of a match. I just wish the one example we had to go with right now didn't belong to such an already strong character.
 
dribirut

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
It’s punishable.. that’s why.

Well actually most of the time. For some reason some timed the push back is much greater
 
M

MixMeUpDaddy

Noob
Because hes OP and NRS want to make him as annoying as possible and lack nothing . Its also safe and seems to get armour on start up, I never beat it once.
 
MKF30

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
His FB is annoying lol, it's fast, teleport, hits you from the other side and seems like forever lol.

I just hope that both online competitive and tourney pro players alike don't tier whore the shit out of him again for easier wins if he winds up being beta good or better in the final game.
 
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Zhidoreptiloid

Zhidoreptiloid

Watcher from the sky
1) I say more, dude, He have NO gaps. No fkng one. And all other 4 fighters have TONS of gaps.
2) Nomad dash. That move avoid 2 general mechanics - 1) launch for meter 2) you can make air drop from combo for 2 bard of defensive meter. With such broken shit, that ignores 2 core mechanics, he must have minus million on block and 100% garauntee, that you will punish it. But now ussless scorpion spear is minus million on block, and nomad dash is semi-safe - sometimes, it has pushback and you cannot punish it with st. 1. Nice work, NRS!
3) And pf course, broken AF custom loadout, which make him terminator who makes 50% damage with restand.
4) Broken hitbox of air-saw, even such player as Dragon doesnt make Fl Bl on it.
And why it so?
Maybe, because kabal is favorite of 16 bit?
He is broken af, even in beta, you can see it without glasses
 
MrMiketastic

MrMiketastic

Noob
His FB is really good, but it's actually pretty punishable I feel. I was able to punish a couple of Kabals for doing this raw to me (I played Skarlet).

All in all, I think we just need to lab it out a little when the game comes out. Who knows too? Maybe by then, Kabal might be balanced a little further.
 
xWildx

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
We have no idea what the best fatal blow in the game is yet.. We’re not playing the final patch, and we haven’t had an opportunity to play most of the cast.

Save this for some weeks after release.

Copied Crimson’s post from the other Kabal thread. Since we leave some things open and close others for no reason.
 
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Saltea Moonspell

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
The game isn't out yet. We played some old build and the kids begun to cry. ..
Its terrifying what will happen once the game is out. If understanding basic principle of play BETA isn't there, than threads like this will pop out like mushrooms.
Now on Kabals Saws - they were negative and punishable. If Kabal were to zone, he required more patients, but that requires some skill, and clearly a lot of kids those days wants everything "here now - give me".

Chill the f@ck out, play some shooter, RPG and stop this nonsense. Let the game come out, play it for some time, observe and THEN perhaps someone will look at you seriously.
 
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Jackdiesel05

Jackdiesel05

Noob
Yes
MKF30 said:
His FB is annoying lol, it's fast, teleport, hits you from the other side and seems like forever lol.

I just hope that both online competitive and tourney pro players alike don't tier whore the shit out of him again for easier wins if he winds up being beta good or better in the final game.
Click to expand...
yes even noob too people dont notice but noob FB tracks as well
 
ogrimtitan

ogrimtitan

Mortal
It's easy to say that we should reserve judgment for release, but there are some major flaws with that argument:

1. Knowing it's the beta doesn't eliminate the value of critical thought and discussion,
2. Discussing it now might conceivably inspire pre-release changes that would keep Kabal from dominating the first generation of the game (including its first EVO and most important advertisement opportunity), and
3. It's completely rational to be suspicious of Kabal being OP given his history in the series.

Let's just think about what Kabal has already in the game, and will have at release unless they literally eliminate moves from his toolkit:
+Decent combos and respectable damage meterless, with one bar, and with two bars
+Decent zoning, with high, low, and aerial projectiles
+Full-screen pressure and projectile combo confirms
+Full combos that don't launch and thus can't be escaped
+Reach and footsies
+Strings that are difficult to punish and/or can be made safe
+Minimal gaps in his strings for flawless block
+Restand + pressure
+Krushing blows that are mostly easy to use and that have high value on use
+A full-screen fatal blow that changes the entire pace of the match no matter what else is happening

What other characters would you expect to have ALL of that?
What could NRS realistically do between now and release that would make THAT toolkit balanced with a diverse roster of characters, all the rest of whom so far seem to have significant weaknesses built into their design?
Is it really worth "reserving judgment" now at the risk of the world seeing a Top 8 EVO full of Kabal mirrors AGAIN?
 
Charybdis

Charybdis

We are returned! Death to the False Emperor!
ogrimtitan said:
It's easy to say that we should reserve judgment for release, but there are some major flaws with that argument:

1. Knowing it's the beta doesn't eliminate the value of critical thought and discussion,
2. Discussing it now might conceivably inspire pre-release changes that would keep Kabal from dominating the first generation of the game (including its first EVO and most important advertisement opportunity), and
3. It's completely rational to be suspicious of Kabal being OP given his history in the series.

Let's just think about what Kabal has already in the game, and will have at release unless they literally eliminate moves from his toolkit:
+Decent combos and respectable damage meterless, with one bar, and with two bars
+Decent zoning, with high, low, and aerial projectiles
+Full-screen pressure and projectile combo confirms
+Full combos that don't launch and thus can't be escaped
+Reach and footsies
+Strings that are difficult to punish and/or can be made safe
+Minimal gaps in his strings for flawless block
+Restand + pressure
+Krushing blows that are mostly easy to use and that have high value on use
+A full-screen fatal blow that changes the entire pace of the match no matter what else is happening

What other characters would you expect to have ALL of that?
What could NRS realistically do between now and release that would make THAT toolkit balanced with a diverse roster of characters, all the rest of whom so far seem to have significant weaknesses built into their design?
Is it really worth "reserving judgment" now at the risk of the world seeing a Top 8 EVO full of Kabal mirrors AGAIN?
Click to expand...

Precisely. I've yet to see anyone (any Kabal main) actually present an argument for why Kabal is fine or why he shouldn't be nerfed from the beta build that isn't "wait to see the rest of the roster" which is, as you covered, bunk.

Legitimately, Kabal players: tell me what weakness your character has. What tool does he lack, what does he do poorly? Like I've seen the argument made that his ground saws are negative on block and can be punished up close. Really? So your argument is that you can't frame trap me with projectiles from across the screen?
 
STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
ogrimtitan said:
It's easy to say that we should reserve judgment for release, but there are some major flaws with that argument:

1. Knowing it's the beta doesn't eliminate the value of critical thought and discussion,
2. Discussing it now might conceivably inspire pre-release changes that would keep Kabal from dominating the first generation of the game (including its first EVO and most important advertisement opportunity), and
3. It's completely rational to be suspicious of Kabal being OP given his history in the series.

Let's just think about what Kabal has already in the game, and will have at release unless they literally eliminate moves from his toolkit:
+Decent combos and respectable damage meterless, with one bar, and with two bars
+Decent zoning, with high, low, and aerial projectiles
+Full-screen pressure and projectile combo confirms
+Full combos that don't launch and thus can't be escaped
+Reach and footsies
+Strings that are difficult to punish and/or can be made safe
+Minimal gaps in his strings for flawless block
+Restand + pressure
+Krushing blows that are mostly easy to use and that have high value on use
+A full-screen fatal blow that changes the entire pace of the match no matter what else is happening

What other characters would you expect to have ALL of that?
What could NRS realistically do between now and release that would make THAT toolkit balanced with a diverse roster of characters, all the rest of whom so far seem to have significant weaknesses built into their design?
Is it really worth "reserving judgment" now at the risk of the world seeing a Top 8 EVO full of Kabal mirrors AGAIN?
Click to expand...
When you’re arguing the difficulty of a punish after a maximum of a few days of beta gameplay (a build in which Jade looked noticeably unfinished I might add), and training mode was completely inaccessible, yes, judgement should be reserved until release.

Also, a Kabal mirror never happened at EVO top 8, in any game, ever, if you’re gonna be an armchair critic, at least be an armchair critic correctly.
 
GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Guys, it's a Beta. He will NOT be overperforming in the end product.
He had to be overperforming so that they can cut him down to size. His overall concept - mobility - is always insanely hard to balance in any and all forms of pvp.

His FB will likely start up slower and be unsafe.
 
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