What's new

Why I feel NW should be able to make top 8

Can NW really make top 8?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 74.3%
  • No

    Votes: 19 25.7%

  • Total voters
    74

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
I had to scratch the NW forum itch...it's just been too long.


If we look at the characters that have made top 8 recently or who are just common, we see that NW only loses to a few and they really are not that bad. Below are a list of characters and the popular MU number for NW, and most of the characters reps, worst to best.

(NW-Opp)
Zod 3-7 or 4-6
Sinestro 4-6
Green Lantern 4-6
Superman 4-6
Batgirl 5-5
Flash 5-5
Bane 5-5
Batman 5-5
MMH 5-5
Aquaman 5-5
Deathstroke 5-5
Wonder Woman 5-5
Lobo 6-4

Of these 12 Mu NW only loses 4, goes even with 8 and wins 1. Compare your own character to these 12 and tell me if they stand a better chance than NW. It's interesting to look at it this way when you consider the most common and frequent characters you see in top 8.

People like to make fun of NW (myself included lol) but it looks like he has enough going for him to make top 8. This is one reason why I like playing him despite the occasional cyborg or HG.

My updated MU chart for those who are interested is below:

Cyborg 3-7
Isn't it obvious how bad this is? Iafb and gfb zoning own him. Cyborg can use his pressure to gain space as well up close making everything a guess and a risk for NW? Interactables are stupid. Escrima

Zod 4-6
My most common MU. Interactables destroy NW here and make the damage game weight heavy in zods favor. Zoning isn't really the issue...in fact if zod only zones without Interactables or trait mixups, NW can win the zoning war. Rare though. I also find myself back in staff for much of the match stuffing his wakeups.

Sinestro 4-6
Not hard for him to get out trait which ends the game. Only way to get in is to stay on the ground and dash cautiously around FB. Using GS, You only get 1-2 dashes depending on distance. Don't yet greedy. Clash and transition intelligently, and void his trait when ever possible. 80% escrima

HG 4-6
Understanding when to move and when to punish is counter intuitive to every other character in the game. Learn how to oki and punish her wakeups. 60% escrima 40% staff

Harley 4-6
Damage is great and zoning is very difficult to get around. Her 50/50 are hard to react to also. I might change it to 5-5 but right now I feel like her zoning mixups are hard to read and move in on. 90% Escrima

BA 4-6
Still a beast that out damages and out footsies many of cast. Bird Adam with meter is a pain in the ass. NW has options but it isn't easy for him. 90% Staff. Best in jump distance range.

GL 4-6
Zoning with smart trait usage is problematic for NW cause you can't touch him. Recognize when us is and isn't in trait and use his patterns against him. Learn how to block his mixups on knockdown and oki effectively. 60% esc 40% staff

Superman 4-6
Thus could be 5-5 honestly. His zoning is easier to get around these days and his footsies are not godlike. F23 breath and f2 breath can interrupted by 113 both mid screen and corner making his pressure not as good. He has to zone to win. Watch out for divebombs and get used to moving cautiously. 60% staff 40% escrima


Zatanna 4-6
Her zoning is a huge problem and her mixups and resets can be huge. Best to get momentum early and keep pressure. Faint with d1 to bait movement and be ready.


Killer Frost 4-6
Her damage is super underrated and with her 50-50s she can be very dangerous...parry wtf? Oh and her projectile is damaging and pushes you full screen. I tend to stay in staff on the ground but I honestly don't have enough MU exp here.


Aquaman 5-5
NW has better pressure, footsies, and zoning but lacks AM mobility. Am can effectively get around staff zoning and can punish hard on whiffs. Keep him guessing by switching it up and get your timing down with trip guarding jumps. 60% staff 40% escrima

Bane 5-5
I used to say 6-4 but bane is just too good. 113 and wing dings are his saving grace. Learn when to use both and be ready to punish his whiffed specials. Watch his venom. 60% escrima 40% staff.

Batgirl 5-5
Footsies are in NW favor but mobility and damage are in hers. Careful switching from escrima to staff is essential. Jump back 1 in staff is your best friend. Oki her from sweep distance or farther. 80% staff 20% escrima


Batman 5-5
GS goes under his trait and keeps him from approaching easily so use that often. If he is jumping in after trait you can j3 wingding for quick and easy damage. Push block when he pressures you with trait and zone him to keep life lead. 80% Escrima 20% staff

Flash 5-5
Poke with quick Normals like staff 1 d1 1b1 b1. Bait movement and punish. I like to push block so I don't have to deal with 50-50. Switch often but stay mindful your options and punishes in each. 50/50 in both stances

Lobo 6-4
Footsies are about even and his damage is crazy. He can punish regular wingdings with shells so you have to zone very carefully. Don't let him in. 90% escrima

Raven 5-5
Interesting yet super annoying MU here. In staff you can't do anything against constant projectiles except 4 gs or work your way in and mb b3. You can trade well if she soul crushes on block but you got to wait. In escrima gs goes under projectiles but gets bodied by reflect and sc. Stay switching and win the zoning meta. 50/50 both stances

WW 5-5
I love this MU. Staff beats lasso, shield beats staff, escrima beats shield, lasso beats escrima. Life lead changes this but a close match will have both players trying to get the other stuck in one of the stances theirs counters at a given time. Staff lasso footsies match is very fun and tends to be what happens most often due to comfort of WW players.

MMH 5-5
Staff wins footsie war and zoning war. Mmh has Interactables. Learn how to block his ghetto resets and bull shit hitbox teleports and the match is surprisingly even. NW has great post tele options with Staff spin and gp mb. 90% staff

Grundy 6-4
Run and don't get grabbed. Lol staff might be best but escrima works too. NVM just Staff Spin literally every thing.

Ares 6-4
NW doesn't really need to move. Ares pressure can be tricky but in general staff d1 might single handedly make this annoying for him. Zone with caution and watch for god smack and tele. 80% staff

Catwoman 6-4
She dominates escrima so switch cautiously but switch ASAP. I like jump 1 vs her due to start up and downward hitbox. D1 staff spin beats her cat dash and allows you the chance to do chip and force her to take risks. I play very lame 100% in staff besides the occasional knockdown into gs.

Deathstroke 5-5
Staff oki I feel wins him the match. I can easily blow up all ds wakeups while zoning is pretty even. Watch for mb shots and don't get put in the corner against ds. This could be 5-5 and I wouldn't be mad. 70% staff

Doomsday 5-5
Online this is a bitch because I have to be patient and block (impossible). Offline I can stiff his options with staff oki. NW has the + frames he needs to keep DD out. 90% staff

Joker 6-4
Footsies and zoning smart are the most important thing. But I feel they are much stronger than jokers options there. I switch my stances 50/50.

Lex 5-5
NW can win zone war and almost always get rid of his trait before he gets in. Trip guards and FG are very important. Fg goes through his body if he dashes toward you with trait leaving u safe and him taking damage. Keep zoning. 60% staff.

Green Arrow 7-3
NW wins in both stances fairly easily. The struggle is real.

Scorpion 7-3
Staff d1 punishes everything known to man in Scorpions world. Flip kick both teleports, b2. It's hard for scorp to get both damage and momentum unless you just havnt played much scorp. 90% staff

Shazam 7-3
You out footsie him everywhere making him have to be reckless to get in and get damage. Similar to scorp you can punish all his advances for big damage so just be patient and win. 90% staff
 
Last edited:
from the looks of this match up chart, what makes you think nightwing is a shitty character? Interactables? the mobility of someone whos trying not to shit them self?
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
from the looks of this match up chart, what makes you think nightwing is a shitty character? Interactables? the mobility of someone whos trying not to shit them self?
I don't think he is shitty...interactables are a huge problem though.
 

Captain Oxygen

The end of one combo is the beginning of another
Why do you think Nightwing beats Lobo?
I'd like to talk about that matchup, instead of all the other nightwing players I try to talk to that say "hey play this guy and yull see ur wrong".
 
Why do you think Nightwing beats Lobo?
I'd like to talk about that matchup, instead of all the other nightwing players I try to talk to that say "hey play this guy and yull see ur wrong".
same reason why flash beats lobo, he has multiple safe on block ways of getting out of lobos command throw on wake up set up. It's really tough to keep him down.

Staff on Staff on Staff!
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
Why do you think Nightwing beats Lobo?
I'd like to talk about that matchup, instead of all the other nightwing players I try to talk to that say "hey play this guy and yull see ur wrong".
Just my opinion but I'd love to play it out. My first exp against lobo was phill at FR last year and I had it at 5-5 for a while. Then I realized how easy it is to stuff all his wakeups after knockdown as well as how good NW keep away game is vs him.
 

Captain Oxygen

The end of one combo is the beginning of another
I need to play it more, but instead of doing the command grab on wakeup, after hook charge I have this safe jump to beat out nightwings wakeups. Forward J1 will stuff staff spin, and flying grayson will whiff. Forward J2 will punish flying grayson, but get hit by staff spin. His wakeups in Escrima aren't amazing either.

But yeah it's probably much easier to beat out Lobo's wakeups.
 

IMakeItL00kC00L

Do not provoke a god
Sinestro

Sinestro -Like opp
Zod: 5-5 (im taking the ability to do consistent iazb into consideration)
Sinestro: N/A
Green Lantern: 6-4
Superman: 6-4
Batgirl: 5-5
Flash: 5-5
Batman: 4-6? 5-5? Imo it's debatable
Martian Manhunter: 4-6
Aquaman: 3-7
Deathstroke: 5-5
Wonder Woman: 6-4
Lobo: 5-5
Doomsday: 4-6
I threw doosmday in because i think he's a pretty popular top 8/tourney character.

So yeah in general he does pretty well against tournament regular characters but against characters that people will pocket he's usually at a disadvantage. He does better than nw in the fact that Sin has more winning MUs but NW does much better against common pocket characters MMH & Aquaman.

I could be wrong on some of the MUs but I believe the MUs are reflective of what most Sin reps believe
 

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
I always get chided for losing such an easy matchup like Nightwing/Superman (to be fair, I'm dog shit at the NW matchup) and I always ask why Superman beats NW so definitively (I've heard 7-3 numbers) and it usually just goes to "Superman can zone him out" which I don't believe, at least not easily. Superman's plan is indeed to zone but he can't keep NW out as easily as people say.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
I always get chided for losing such an easy matchup like Nightwing/Superman (to be fair, I'm dog shit at the NW matchup) and I always ask why Superman beats NW so definitively (I've heard 7-3 numbers) and it usually just goes to "Superman can zone him out" which I don't believe, at least not easily. Superman's plan is indeed to zone but he can't keep NW out as easily as people say.
Your correct
 

chemist4hire

I Got Guiled
Match up charts do not take player skill into consideration. You are stating that, match up-wise, NW does well against the common top 8 characters. Are you therefore implying that NW has not made top 8 because the players using the character lack skills? Just messing with you. I think it is because of bracketology.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
Match up charts do not take player skill into consideration. You are stating that, match up-wise, NW does well against the common top 8 characters. Are you therefore implying that NW has not made top 8 because the players using the character lack skills? Just messing with you. I think it is because of bracketology.
lmao...yes thats exactly what I am saying...myself included. 9th isn't top 8.