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General/Other - Fisticuffs Why FC is bottom tier, and ways to save him

Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
SaSSolino said:
1 blocked ball is enough to make up for the damage u sacrifice, and now you are full screen with the buff. it's still better than variationless johnny.
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never said it wasn't

Definitely not worth giving up 44% meterless punishes into restand or top 3 block pressure in the game though lol.

Also that depends on the matchup, takeda will punish that for 30% with ex teleport just to name one example.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Wigy said:
never said it wasn't

Definitely not worth giving up 44% meterless punishes into restand or top 3 block pressure in the game though lol.
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and I agree on that, but I think that with all the buffs suggested in the OP, this variation would get to be too strong. as I said: a bit of help to the string and you convinced me on the faster recovery on the buff, but I don't think he needs anything else.
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Wigy said:
Speed bag 9 frame startup, made -2 on block.

That way ANY character has 3 frames to poke out but it still has some utility

fistbump recovery much faster. Flame fist liu has a MUCH better damage buff tool and a whole bunch of other excellent specials to go with it.
Possible ex fistbump that increases grab damage to 16 and has even faster startup- fast enough to get out after NP with leftover Adv and maybe increase his d1 to 6 frames during active frames.

Even with this the variation nowhere near competes with his a list variation, without making speedbag 0 on block as it was which causes characters like takeda issues -no more than DF Liu to be fair though, its very difficult to balance this variation.

Maybe the addition of some other normal or maybe fistbump special cancelable -with everything except ex forceball. Considering all of his specials are full punish except ex SK (which can be ducked) i don't see this is as too obscene, it would also help solve the startup issue, and give him decent zoning momentum of 114 fb df1.

Some of this is probably stupid but im just spitballing, hes a tricky character to balance. He is build around string that is either useless or OP dependin on a few frames

Ismael are you eu or us?

I wouldn't mind getting sets with you if you're eu
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I'm usually in the european servers, of course we can play! You are going to wreck my fisti with A-List probably, but I'll try :p

I would buy that -2 too, yes. Though 0 is not as broken as many shit that still is in the game, people would start to complain again...
The fistbump definitely feels bad and lacking something. I think nrs put no effort in this variation, and when a problem appeared they decided to go the easy way and overnerfed him.
It's absolute nonsense that the move a variation is built around is average to bad.

Roko1985 said:
So you are still holding to FC Cage. I agree with all that. I tryed some characters that i liked from the time the game came out, but other characters like Tempest are so much better, so i did join them. You are wellcome to the Tempest army if you want. You will get promoted to a Top Tier just for picking him. Other wise play A-list.
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Yeah, believe it or not I'm sticking with him!
For some reason I'm not attracted to top tier characters like Lao. That doesn't mean I enjoy playing trash tiers, I just prefer those ones who just have the necessary tools to win and are not overpowered. FC had them before its nerf, but even then it was the worst variation.

I also main Kenshi, probably I'm masochist xD
 
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Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
ismael4790 said:
I'm usually in the european servers, of course we can play! You are going to wreck my fisti with A-List probably, but I'll try :p

I would buy that -2 too, yes. Though 0 is not as broken as many shit that still is in the game, people would start to complain again...
The fistbump definitely feels bad and lacking something. I think nrs put no effort in this variation, and when a problem appeared they decided to go the easy way and overnerfed him.
It's absolute nonsense that the move a variation is builded around is average to bad.



Yeah, believe it or not I'm sticking with him!
For some reason I'm not attracted to top tier characters like Lao. That doesn't mean I enjoy playing trash tiers, I just prefer those ones who just have the necessary tools to win and are not overpowered. FC had them before its nerf, but even then it was the worst variation.

I also main Kenshi, probably I'm masochist xD
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My PSN is Netpls.

Add me, when you next on dude. Connection hopefully will be acceptable haha.
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
M.D. said:
You forgot being able to armor at ANY time during the speedbag string on block .ANY. TIME.
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You are right, I got lost in the middle of the sea of FC issues, too much to say xD
Yeah, I don't think the gap in the string is necessary. At least not after the second rep. Maybe after the third, or the fourth...or just no gap at all. The staggers were and are pokeable, that should be enough.
 
KrstffrMunk

KrstffrMunk

Bane/Black Manta/Captain Cold
I don't have a high lvl Johnny but I enjoy playing him and exclusively play Fisticuffs despite Stunt Double being the better choice for someone who hasn't labbed the A-list run cancels. As such I've no knowledge about the variation's struggles at high lvl play.

I do take pride in my Flame Fist Liu Kang however, so to me making Fist Bump more like Shaolin Flame is a great idea.

I forget if the red properties are Fisticuffs-only or available to all his variations. Regardless, activation at 10% seems more reasonable to me.
 
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Somea2V

Somea2V

Thread Referee
KrstffrMunk said:
I do take pride in my Flame Fist Liu Kang however, so to me making Fist Bump more like Shaolin Flame is a great idea.

I forget if the red properties are Fisticuffs-only or available to all his variations. Regardless, activation at 10% seems more reasonable to me.
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Having an EX version that allows cancels, safe activation and maybe a longer duration wouldn't be too awful. Double chip is already nice enough for the increase amount. An EX version would really only need to improve usability.

Every variation has the red shadow property, so I don't think giving him an expansion on its use is necessary since having double damage specials isn't really part of Fisticuffs's schtick. Activating it early could also be detrimental to his balance. I don't like how fleeting it is at <5% health but I think it was always meant as a last ditch, "you're one hit away" factor.
 
kantboy-2

kantboy-2

Ripper
Give him back the speed bag swag OR give him 2 new overhead + pokes OR give him Red Property upon Fisticuff activation (5 seconds active/5 second cool down).

All 3 would make Fisticuffs a BEAST.

I like Johnny.
 
Somea2V

Somea2V

Thread Referee
kantboy-2 said:
Give him back the speed bag swag OR give him 2 new overhead + pokes OR give him Red Property upon Fisticuff activation (5 seconds active/5 second cool down).

All 3 would make Fisticuffs a BEAST.

I like Johnny.
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I think most of us like Johnny, but he doesn't need anything that ridiculous. Let's have NRS just admit they overreacted and get things back to normal.

Wigy said:
Lets not get carried away. Bug spray is a full punish on block special
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While you are correct, staggering the bug spray still makes you have to guess when to do your punish. You can't armor out of it. It's a restand. It has range. And it can be enhanced to do insane chip damage/hit damage.

Basically the only way in which it is worse than Speed Bag (now or then) is that you can full combo punish Bug Spray IF you guess right. And yet...
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
You can't armor between the ticks of the bugspray.
You can armor between any hits of the speedbag.

Not the same.
 
freerf245

freerf245

11 11 11 11
Anyone know if fisticuffs has been affected within the beta? All the other characters in there have seemed to be buffed in some way so I wanna see if my favorite Johnny variation was
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Folux182 said:
Just so everyone knows, Fisticuffs, with the buff, has the 17% throw like when he's red
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This grab buff is for all variations.

At the moment, what Fisticuffs has got is a very slight reduction of Fistbump recovery (just 40 down from 44 according to the frame data in the beta) and speedbag startup to 10 down from 11. In exchange, he has lost his ability to special cancel b2 as a collateral damage from a SD nerf, and also his d4 is now -6 on block... Let's hope this is not definitive, because honestly, comparing the "buffs" and nerfs I would prefer him to stay the way he was.
 
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thlityoursloat

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Why are they treading so damn lightly with Fisticuffs??? There are characters who have pressure that's 10000x better. I swear to god if Tempest and Kobu motherfucking Jutsu aren't nerfed when they're part of the beta, I will lose my shit.
 
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