ismael4790
Stay focused or get Caged
-Edit - January 2016: EO Beta has added a 17% throw when Fistbump enabled and 1 frame shaved from b1 recovery.
-Edit - March 2016: B1 had 1 frame of startup reduction. BF1 has 40 frames of recovery. BF1 enables red mode throw. Speedbag does 3% instead of 2% while BF1 is activated.
This is a good start nrs, but definitely is not enough to take FC out of the trash bin. Come on, give this variation of Cage the opportunity to shine!
There's a strong chance that in about one month the next big mkx patch arrives.
So I'm here to analize and discuss about this very abandoned variation of Johnny, and try to explain changes that would make him viable again. He has been ignored since his famous nerf, and now more than ever it is obvious he needs something.
If you love the character, would be great you also shared your opinions, because if the community remains silent nothing is going to change.
What makes this variation different?
Fisticuffs Cage is just variationless Johnny with two extra tools. The speedbag string, b1,2, a cool string which can be repeated, and the Fistbump, a chip bonus.
Nothing else, no cancels as A-List, no clones with plus frames as Stunt double, nothing. So one would expect these two tools Fisticuffs has, to be good to compensate it...
Why this variation was decent (and not op) before 6/23 patch?
The fistbump has remained the same through the patches, so I will talk about this move at the proposed changes section.
The main reason to pick this variation over the other two before 6/23 patch was the speedbag string, as the other moves come from variationless Johnny and the other variations share them. So you sacrificed cancels and clones and the many possibilities they give, for one special string.
Speedbag had 9 frames startup (not the fastest thing I've seen, but it's ok). Your game was based on the recovery properties it had. While the opponent was blocking, if you stopped the string at an odd hit, you were at -3. BUT, if you stopped at an even hit you were left neutral on block. This forced the enemy to guess where you were going to stagger the string to adjust his/her reaction accordingly.
Was this op? Imo, not at all. There were many ways to get out of it. Pokes (you had a window to poke varying from 9 frames to 12 depending on where the stagger was done), backdashes at midscreen, and with some characters, armor. And the string had (and still has) a gap after the second hit, many chars can armor through it to escape.
Was it hard to get out? Yes, in some cases. As it is hard to get out of many other characters pressure that still remain intact...
My point is developers didn't left enough time for people to get used to this string. Some players got caught off guard, and this string was highly overrated. Then 6/23 arrived...
Why this variation is bottom tier after 6/23 patch?
Let's remind the famous nerf from 6/23 patch:
First of all, this reduced his damage midscreen: his more damaging midscreen combos relied on b1,2, and with the startup becoming slower, these combos turned very inconsistent.
What about speedbag "pressure"? There was something left? No.
With the new frame data, the opponent does not need to guess anymore if you are going to stagger at an even or an odd hit. All is -3. And if you dare to stagger, you leave him/her 11+3=14 frames to do whatever.
Landing a poke became extremely easy in this new scenario, the pressure was over and speedbag just became a "bait tool". So what we have here is basically variationless Johnny.
The Fistbump main use was to chip the enemy to death with speedbag while enabled . As now FC has to fear about doing more than two reps of the string, this chip bonus became even less useful.
Which options this variation actually has?
Let's summarize the most important:
-His best normal is his d4: I'm not gonna lie, it's one of the best in the game, but it is part of variationless Johnny moveset, and let's be honest, you are not gonna win with d4s...xD
-Standing 1: 9 frames of startup, which is a joke for a pressure type character. Look at Jax with his 6 frames, for example.
-Down 1 poke: 8 frames, not terrible, but 7 would be much more fair. D3 is worse, no reason to use it over D1.
-F3: A great normal, very good range...but in this variation this fantastic move is wasted. Your options are F3,4 for whiff punishing (12%...wow), F3 exforceball (spend a bar for low damage), f3 nutpunch (you can't hitconfirm it, so you have to commit and risk a full punish)...and that's it. Don't even try canceling F3 into Fistbump.
Basically, your main source of damage is going to come from unblocked F2 overheads. Your goal is forcing the opponent to crouch, which is very hard once they realize how EXTREMELY WEAK your low option damage output and possibilities are. In A-List, for example, when a low hits, the cancels lead you to full combo, so it is fearsome. Here:
Your low option comes from 113 string:
-113 is unsafe on block.
-If 11 is blocked and you hit the 3, you can't hit confirm into nut punch, so you basically have to commit and take the risk with the nutpunch for a 14-16% damage, getting full combo punished if blocked. Ex nutpunch after the 3 is also unsafe.
-If you want to make this string "safe", you have to spend a bar to do an exforceball. You get few damage from this. And notice there's a gap between the 3 and the forceballs, so you may even be punished for this.
So basically if you don't have meter there's absolutely no reason for the opponent to block low, at most they will eat a 16%.
-11 stagger into F2/ 113 is a mixup that works against people not used to the matchup, but it is very easy to fuzzy guard and people is doing this more consistently as the time passes.
Hence, what we have here is a variation with a chip bonus that he can't use in most of the situations because he has no true pressure or true mixups to get the most of it. Very frustrating.
What changes would make this variation viable again?
Right now, there's absolutely no reason to pick Fisticuffs over the other two variations. I doubt the developers want useless variations in this game...
My ideas to make Fisticuffs viable:
-Edit - March 2016: B1 had 1 frame of startup reduction. BF1 has 40 frames of recovery. BF1 enables red mode throw. Speedbag does 3% instead of 2% while BF1 is activated.
This is a good start nrs, but definitely is not enough to take FC out of the trash bin. Come on, give this variation of Cage the opportunity to shine!
There's a strong chance that in about one month the next big mkx patch arrives.
So I'm here to analize and discuss about this very abandoned variation of Johnny, and try to explain changes that would make him viable again. He has been ignored since his famous nerf, and now more than ever it is obvious he needs something.
If you love the character, would be great you also shared your opinions, because if the community remains silent nothing is going to change.
What makes this variation different?
Fisticuffs Cage is just variationless Johnny with two extra tools. The speedbag string, b1,2, a cool string which can be repeated, and the Fistbump, a chip bonus.
Nothing else, no cancels as A-List, no clones with plus frames as Stunt double, nothing. So one would expect these two tools Fisticuffs has, to be good to compensate it...
Why this variation was decent (and not op) before 6/23 patch?
The fistbump has remained the same through the patches, so I will talk about this move at the proposed changes section.
The main reason to pick this variation over the other two before 6/23 patch was the speedbag string, as the other moves come from variationless Johnny and the other variations share them. So you sacrificed cancels and clones and the many possibilities they give, for one special string.
Speedbag had 9 frames startup (not the fastest thing I've seen, but it's ok). Your game was based on the recovery properties it had. While the opponent was blocking, if you stopped the string at an odd hit, you were at -3. BUT, if you stopped at an even hit you were left neutral on block. This forced the enemy to guess where you were going to stagger the string to adjust his/her reaction accordingly.
Was this op? Imo, not at all. There were many ways to get out of it. Pokes (you had a window to poke varying from 9 frames to 12 depending on where the stagger was done), backdashes at midscreen, and with some characters, armor. And the string had (and still has) a gap after the second hit, many chars can armor through it to escape.
Was it hard to get out? Yes, in some cases. As it is hard to get out of many other characters pressure that still remain intact...
My point is developers didn't left enough time for people to get used to this string. Some players got caught off guard, and this string was highly overrated. Then 6/23 arrived...
Why this variation is bottom tier after 6/23 patch?
Let's remind the famous nerf from 6/23 patch:
- Johnny Cage (Fisticuffs) – Away + FP now has 11 startup frames (up from 9)
- Johnny Cage (Fisticuffs) - all Speed Bag hits are now always -3 on block instead of every 4th one being 0
First of all, this reduced his damage midscreen: his more damaging midscreen combos relied on b1,2, and with the startup becoming slower, these combos turned very inconsistent.
What about speedbag "pressure"? There was something left? No.
With the new frame data, the opponent does not need to guess anymore if you are going to stagger at an even or an odd hit. All is -3. And if you dare to stagger, you leave him/her 11+3=14 frames to do whatever.
Landing a poke became extremely easy in this new scenario, the pressure was over and speedbag just became a "bait tool". So what we have here is basically variationless Johnny.
The Fistbump main use was to chip the enemy to death with speedbag while enabled . As now FC has to fear about doing more than two reps of the string, this chip bonus became even less useful.
Which options this variation actually has?
Let's summarize the most important:
-His best normal is his d4: I'm not gonna lie, it's one of the best in the game, but it is part of variationless Johnny moveset, and let's be honest, you are not gonna win with d4s...xD
-Standing 1: 9 frames of startup, which is a joke for a pressure type character. Look at Jax with his 6 frames, for example.
-Down 1 poke: 8 frames, not terrible, but 7 would be much more fair. D3 is worse, no reason to use it over D1.
-F3: A great normal, very good range...but in this variation this fantastic move is wasted. Your options are F3,4 for whiff punishing (12%...wow), F3 exforceball (spend a bar for low damage), f3 nutpunch (you can't hitconfirm it, so you have to commit and risk a full punish)...and that's it. Don't even try canceling F3 into Fistbump.
Basically, your main source of damage is going to come from unblocked F2 overheads. Your goal is forcing the opponent to crouch, which is very hard once they realize how EXTREMELY WEAK your low option damage output and possibilities are. In A-List, for example, when a low hits, the cancels lead you to full combo, so it is fearsome. Here:
Your low option comes from 113 string:
-113 is unsafe on block.
-If 11 is blocked and you hit the 3, you can't hit confirm into nut punch, so you basically have to commit and take the risk with the nutpunch for a 14-16% damage, getting full combo punished if blocked. Ex nutpunch after the 3 is also unsafe.
-If you want to make this string "safe", you have to spend a bar to do an exforceball. You get few damage from this. And notice there's a gap between the 3 and the forceballs, so you may even be punished for this.
So basically if you don't have meter there's absolutely no reason for the opponent to block low, at most they will eat a 16%.
-11 stagger into F2/ 113 is a mixup that works against people not used to the matchup, but it is very easy to fuzzy guard and people is doing this more consistently as the time passes.
Hence, what we have here is a variation with a chip bonus that he can't use in most of the situations because he has no true pressure or true mixups to get the most of it. Very frustrating.
What changes would make this variation viable again?
Right now, there's absolutely no reason to pick Fisticuffs over the other two variations. I doubt the developers want useless variations in this game...
My ideas to make Fisticuffs viable:
- Speedbag NEEDS to get back its 9 frame startup. 11 frames is just pure trash.
- About the recovery of the speedbag on block, the best scenario would be prepatch state, which was not broken at all as I said. But this would imply nrs to admit they did a mistake... I doubt this happens.
So... -3 for odd hits and -2 or -1 for even hits. This would give him back part of the guessing game with the staggers. - Fistbump recovers a lot faster and lasts longer.
- Access to red mode when his life is under 15%, instead of 5% as the other two variations (this one is not really needed).
- Ex Fistbump added, which increases the chip damage to x2.5 (or even x3), or increases regular damage. Also, it works as Liu Kang's Shaolin flame move allowing Cage to make his strings safer on block and even to combo off of some of them. For example: 113 exfistbump f24 would combo. This would improve his weak mixup game, and give more uses to his 113 string.
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