Why do so many suddenly dislike the level of chip damage?

[The_Tile]

being a defensive player doesn't mean blocking endlessly or running away it means being patient knowing the opponent blowing up their plus heavy pressure by knowing the gaps and what to do with them

This sums it up pretty well imo.

 

[Glass Sword]

Well a middle of the road change would be to change how meter is gained slightly.
It takes roughly 16 blocked attacks to build a bar.
Now must plus situations people complain about come from EX moves such as meter burn hat spin or ex ground burst. So, we could alevate this pressure by making it where EX moves no longer build meter on block. It may not seem like much, but doing this is in fact a big change.

 

[Rude]

So the looping pressure character has full advantage the entire time building meter and doing chip while the person on defense has to work harder blocking it all, then to get out you have to spend resources (meter or stamina) on a read, when your opponent can easily make that read to and put you right back in. So looping pressure is at full advantage until both players go to even grounds when they both can make a read. So being even on that one moment makes it even the overall?

And btw, a game can still be fast paced and reward multiple playstyles including defensive play, MKX just isn't that game

I'm a zoner. I love defensive play. I have no problem with how the game is played.

If the opponent is pressuring you, you fucked up. If I can't keep my opponent out, that's my bad.

Tough luck. Make a read and get out. If your opponent reads your escape attempt, that just means he's on the next level of yomi.

Most Run Cancel characters can't loop you forever. Eventually they run out of stamina. That's where your meta begins and yes, if your opponent put you in a pressure situation, you SHOULD have to work to get out. Hell, you had to guess to get out of Cage pressure in MK9. Deal with it.

Better question:

Why aren't YOU the one pressuring the opponent?

Why aren't YOU make THEM start blocking?

Why should the game bend itself to reward sloppy play?

Every single character's pressure system has some kind of escape point. If you're not good enough to get out, or if you get caught in the first place, that's your bad.

Most characters have some kind of armor move, many of them launchers. Downpokes in this game give you enough advantage in most cases to either initiate pressure or apply a 50/50 of your own. On top of that, anti-airs were buffed, you have invincible backdashes, corner escape interactables that you can burn meter to give yourself armor, armored interactable objects you can hit people with that pushes them away from you. You have block breaker. You have regular breakers. You have strings in this game that advance you forward for footsies.

How much more do you want?

Get good, my man.

 

[DrFolmer]

I think the chip damage is fine. Especially when we have a few guys like Kung Lao and Johnny who don't get to use the typical overhead/low mixup like other fighters do.

It also works extremely well the other way around. Predator's projectiles do a lot of chip damage while also being incredibly hard to jump over. Once Quan and Predator start their fullscreen game you usually end up taking a lot of chip damage (and therefore also a lot of meter).

 

[Wetdoba]

I'm a zoner. I love defensive play. I have no problem with how the game is played.

If the opponent is pressuring you, you fucked up. If I can't keep my opponent out, that's my bad.

Tough luck. Make a read and get out. If your opponent reads your escape attempt, that just means he's on the next level of yomi.

Most Run Cancel characters can't loop you forever. Eventually they run out of stamina. That's where your meta begins and yes, if your opponent put you in a pressure situation, you SHOULD have to work to get out. Hell, you had to guess to get out of Cage pressure in MK9. Deal with it.

Better question:

Why aren't YOU the one pressuring the opponent?

Why aren't YOU make THEM start blocking?

Why should the game bend itself to reward sloppy play?

Every single character's pressure system has some kind of escape point. If you're not good enough to get out, or if you get caught in the first place, that's your bad.

Most characters have some kind of armor move, many of them launchers. Downpokes in this game give you enough advantage in most cases to either initiate pressure or apply a 50/50 of your own. On top of that, anti-airs were buffed, you have invincible backdashes, corner escape interactables that you can burn meter to give yourself armor, armored interactable objects you can hit people with that pushes them away from you. You have block breaker. You have regular breakers. You have strings in this game that advance you forward for footsies.

How much more do you want?

Get good, my man.

I don't doubt you mind how the game plays if you play Summoner Quan lol. Characters that zone with space control tools like Kenshi get fucked by running, Quan zones with full screen frame traps into vortexes... pretty different.

Meter is the most valuable resource in this game bar none. Why is it that someone like Tanya for instance gains meter and does damage while the other character has to patiently block correctly waiting for the gap (somehow this is sloppy play?) and then she can just EX rekka with the meter she just built and loop you right back into it?

Why make base mechanics in a game that just reward the simplest and easiest play style the most? Certainly not my cup of tea and I think the base mechanics in this game could certainly use some changes. Backdashes need to be better (either more invincibility or less recovery). and block breakers need to cost 1 bar and half your stamina at the least if they want to be viable, because they 100% are not

 

[Rude]

I don't doubt you mind how the game plays if you play Summoner Quan lol. Characters that zone with space control tools like Kenshi get fucked by running, Quan zones with full screen frame traps into vortexes... pretty different.

Meter is the most valuable resource in this game bar none. Why is it that someone like Tanya for instance gains meter and does damage while the other character has to patiently block correctly waiting for the gap (somehow this is sloppy play?) and then she can just EX rekka with the meter she just built and loop you right back into it?

Why make base mechanics in a game that just reward the simplest and easiest play style the most? Certainly not my cup of tea and I think the base mechanics in this game could certainly use some changes. Backdashes need to be better (either more invincibility or less recovery). and block breakers need to cost 1 bar and half your stamina at the least if they want to be viable, because they 100% are not

Runes are space control tools. It's how we stop running. Why exactly are full screen frame traps bad again? Rushdown characters and frame trap you up close.

Again I ask, why are you letting Tanya pressure you? Why aren't you pressuring her?

Again I say, if your opponent is pressuring you, you're SUPPOSED to have to work to get out. What, you don't think Cage baited armor in MK9?

So in your hypothetical situation, you couldn't bait HER armor? Seriously.

I hate rushdown tom foolery, but I don't think it should be easy to get out if I fuck up and they get in.

Ultimately, that's my fault, not MK X's.

 

[Wetdoba]

Runes are space control tools. It's how we stop running. Why exactly are full screen frame traps bad again? Rushdown characters and frame trap you up close.

Again I ask, why are you letting Tanya pressure you? Why aren't you pressuring her?

Again I say, if your opponent is pressuring you, you're SUPPOSED to have to work to get out. What, you don't think Cage baited armor in MK9?

So in your hypothetical situation, you couldn't bait HER armor? Seriously.

I hate rushdown tom foolery, but I don't think it should be easy to get out if I fuck up and they get in.

Ultimately, that's my fault, not MK X's.

Because Quan has frame traps and block strings into mix ups up close as well and its not just normal frame traps from full screen they are frame traps that are confirmable into vortex with a bar, again, pretty different.

Shit dude your really asking why I LET Tanya pressure me? Your right no one should ever be pressured by Tanya or its all on them, no way that Tanya is the issue she just has to work soooo hard to start her pressure started it is inexcusable to let her start her game even once. And baiting Tanya's armor does really mean much considering the Rekkas have different recovery for every different delayed, non delayed, EX delayed or EX non delayed version so good luck with that. Or maybe its the fact that she is also making you GUESS when you bait her armor since she has overhead armor and low armor options...

 

[Rude]

Because Quan has frame traps and block strings into mix ups up close as well and its not just normal frame traps from full screen they are frame traps that are confirmable into vortex with a bar, again, pretty different.

Shit dude your really asking why I LET Tanya pressure me? Your right no one should ever be pressured by Tanya or its all on them, no way that Tanya is the issue she just has to work soooo hard to start her pressure started it is inexcusable to let her start her game even once. And baiting Tanya's armor does really mean much considering the Rekkas have different recovery for every different delayed, non delayed, EX delayed or EX non delayed version so good luck with that. Or maybe its the fact that she is also making you GUESS when you bait her armor since she has overhead armor and low armor options...

You can armor follow ups after MB Rune. b3 is 10 frames and B2 is 15. You have to commit after MB Rune. You have a frame to armor or backdash if he does overhead and he has a 2 frame window to land B3 without intertuption. If he's off by two frames, you can armor or backdash. Or block and full combo punish his -14 low and -12 overhead. Or armor or backdash in between the low and the MB Rune.

You're also completely missing the point. When I ask, "Why are you letting her pressure you," what I'm getting at is why aren't you using your characters' tools to win the nuetral?

Why aren't YOU pressuring HER?

Why aren't YOU making her play YOUR game?

Instead of blaming Tanya, get better in the Tanya match up. Those armored low/oh specials? Punishable. So what if you have to guess on rekkas? They're not +. If her rekkas didn't work the way they do, she would be a terrible character.

All this sounds like you want a get out of pressure free button. You're fine when you have your opponent cornered and you're doing 50/50s on them. However, if they do them to you than it's unfair and broken.

 

[Wetdoba]

You can armor follow ups after MB Rune. b3 is 10 frames and B2 is 15. You have to commit after MB Rune. You have a frame to armor or backdash if he does overhead and he has a 2 frame window to land B3 without intertuption. If he's off by two frames, you can armor or backdash. Or block and full combo punish his -14 low and -12 overhead. Or armor or backdash in between the low and the MB Rune.

You're also completely missing the point. When I ask, "Why are you letting her pressure you," what I'm getting at is why aren't you using your characters' tools to win the nuetral?

Why aren't YOU pressuring HER?

Why aren't YOU making her play YOUR game?

Instead of blaming Tanya, get better in the Tanya match up. Those armored low/oh specials? Punishable. So what if you have to guess on rekkas? They're not +. If her rekkas didn't work the way they do, she would be a terrible character.

All this sounds like you want a get out of pressure free button. You're fine when you have your opponent cornered and you're doing 50/50s on them. However, if they do them to you than it's unfair and broken.

Your missing my point too. Im not asking for help on how to handle these characters, I have plenty of offline experience against both. The point is that they have an immensely EASIER time with their gameplans over the majority of the cast while ALSO having BETTER tools and/or frame data. If a character is going to be top tier they should aim to be like Jax and have to put in real work for their top shelf status, not like Quan, Tanya, or Predator who are both easy and effective, thats just bad character design.

 

[Evil Canadian]

best chips are sun chips, come at me.

 

[Rude]

Your missing my point too. Im not asking for help on how to handle these characters, I have plenty of offline experience against both. The point is that they have an immensely EASIER time with their gameplans over the majority of the cast while ALSO having BETTER tools and/or frame data. If a character is going to be top tier they should aim to be like Jax and have to put in real work for their top shelf status, not like Quan, Tanya, or Predator who are both easy and effective, thats just bad character design.

I disagree completely. I think the design is fine.