Why do so many suddenly dislike the level of chip damage?

[TarkatanDentist]

One of the more common criticisms of MKX's engine tends to be that chip damage is 'too high'. I don't have a problem with anyone thinking this, for the record - I may not personally agree (IMO the chip damage in MKX is pretty much perfect), but if someone thinks that chip damage should be lower then I can at least understand where they're coming from.

What confuses me much more is that few people were particularly upset with the level of chip damage in MK9... even though it was in many scenarios stronger than chip damage in MKX. I'm thinking especially of the likes of MK9 Sonya here, where she could hit you with a blockstring that did 8-10% damage, completely meterless, and still not have any disadvantage on block or leaving any sort of gaps to exploit. How many characters in MKX can boast the same without resorting to meter? A handful of RC-centric characters can do similar, granted, but they at least have stamina to hinder them and prevent them from simply being able to do it again, and again, and again... (also they're much harder to perform)

It just seems odd that strong chip damage is considered a big problem now when it very rarely was for MK9.

 

[Derptile]

Because 90% of NRS players don't understand patience.

 

[Wigy]

I just hate kung lao jumping in on me for free with his ludicrous j2 then getting like 25% chip with that stupid 122122121 ex hat pressure.

In mk9 there was ways out most of the chip, in mkx the execution for most chip is pretty braindead. Even mk9 johnny had holes where you could armour and poke, mkx has a lot of stupid +10 specials etc

 

[errormacro7]

Because it's CHEAP damage.

IIRC, Skarlet could do her F2121+2 EX dagger cancel pressure five times in a row if she had three bars because she builds two while pressuring due to the multi hits of that string on block. That would take around 50% of chip damage.

 

[LaidbackOne]

I just hate kung lao jumping in on me for free with his ludicrous j2 then getting like 25% chip with that stupid 122122121 ex hat pressure.

In mk9 there was ways out most of the chip, in mkx the execution for most chip is pretty braindead. Even mk9 johnny had holes where you could armour and poke, mkx has a lot of stupid +10 specials etc

Umm, no. Chip in MK9 was way more "braindead" than in MKX. Don't even try.

 

[BiPolarExxpress]

I think it's certain characters that salt people out with chip. Venomous D'Vorah, Liu Kang etc. It's a massive part of their gameplan though. In general it seems fine.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

I think it's because this game is faster than MK9. Many of the defensive-minded players are more used to thinking at a slower speed, the faster pace will (generally) benefit the more offensive-minded players earlier in the game's life (as we've seen) and one thing that helps them is the high chip damage.

The defensive-minded players that haven't adapted to the pace of MKX yet are looking to blame anything other than themselves. So, until they level up, they will look to find any excuse for their poor performance and taking damage while they block seems to be an easy scapegoat.

A year from now the nonsense of a mantra "having good defence helps you die quicker in MKX" (reporting that as an unsolved mystery to @KingHippo) will be long forgotten and people will pretend like they never complained about chip damage.

TLDR: Fuccboi's will be fuccbois

 

[Clampa_]

I just hate kung lao jumping in on me for free with his ludicrous j2 then getting like 25% chip with that stupid 122122121 ex hat pressure.

In mk9 there was ways out most of the chip, in mkx the execution for most chip is pretty braindead. Even mk9 johnny had holes where you could armour and poke, mkx has a lot of stupid +10 specials etc

ex hat has a gap... not guaranteed

 

[Blade4693]

I think its fine, but Liu with Flame Fists activated + Windmill Punch...GG

 

[Sage Leviathan]

I just hate kung lao jumping in on me for free with his ludicrous j2 then getting like 25% chip with that stupid 122122121 ex hat pressure.

112124~EXOrbit does, what, 3.5-ish% chip?
It's loopable five times, sure, but let's not forget all those times in-between when you can backdash, armor, or poke.

 

[aieches]

I think its fine, but Liu with Flame Fists activated + Windmill Punch...GG

this shit here man

 

[Robotic]

Fuck it. I'll answer for those that maybe had this on the tip of the tongue but maybe didn't know how to articulate it:

Because the game itself is very fast, because the rush down character has an easier time getting in in this game.

The above isn't really a big deal, UNLESS you have shit the bed with respect to online. Now you have a game that is too fast on a foundation that is too slow. Now you are scared to interrupt strings with your d1 because chances are your opponent has already begun another string, thanks to online. Now u sit and take the chip much more than not.

In short, most of our problems stem from the online experience. Everything is else is born from this circumstance.

 

[Wigy]

112124~EXOrbit does, what, 3.5-ish% chip?
It's loopable five times, sure, but let's not forget all those times in-between when you can backdash, armor, or poke.

Forgot this was changed in the patch.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

lol take a look at Venomous Dvorah and her new "trident rush"

 

[Enexemander]

Fuck it. I'll answer for those that maybe had this on the tip of the tongue but maybe didn't know how to articulate it:

Because the game itself is very fast, because the rush down character has an easier time getting in in this game.

The above isn't really a big deal, UNLESS you have shit the bed with respect to online. Now you have a game that is too fast on a foundation that is too slow. Now you are scared to interrupt strings with your d1 because chances are your opponent has already begun another string, thanks to online. Now u sit and take the chip much more than not.

In short, most of our problems stem from the online experience. Everything is else is born from this circumstance.

I don't think you can lay this all at the feet of online. I'm not an expert, but here's my thoughts-

Online has no real relevance to the Flame Fist Liu match up. His game is all about guessing and choosing the appropriate reaction to the end of his windmill punch window. In the Dragon's Fire match-up, lag works in the defender's favor because hitting frame perfect (or near perfect) fireball cancels in lag to make string connections uninterruptible is much more difficult. That gives the defender more options as armor and backdash becomes a viable "lag strat."

Also, while I'm sure Kobu Tanya online makes you want to huff a pistol barrel, enough pro players are having trouble with it offline that the timing isn't the main issue. The Kobu player having too many different options for pressure that can generally only be guessed out of literally annoys people to death.

Basically, yeah lag certainly affects pressure characters (mostly good for them with some drawbacks), the game as designed even offline makes dealing with pressure highly annoying.

 

[11411181]

lol take a look at Venomous Dvorah and her new "trident rush"

lolwut?

 

[EndofGameBoss]

I just hate kung lao jumping in on me for free with his ludicrous j2 then getting like 25% chip with that stupid 122122121 ex hat pressure.

In mk9 there was ways out most of the chip, in mkx the execution for most chip is pretty braindead. Even mk9 johnny had holes where you could armour and poke, mkx has a lot of stupid +10 specials etc

You can interrupt the KL shenanigans.

Also, chip damage was serious business in MK9. You are also forgetting MK9 had EX moves that gave advantage as well.

 

[Zoidberg747]

lol take a look at Venomous Dvorah and her new "trident rush"

I bet Injustice players wished trident rush was -17 on block.

 

[BigMilk]

Play Gunslinger Erron Black or and Erron Black or Sorcerer Quan or Kobu Tanya or Dragon Fire Liu Kang or Flame Fist Liu Kang or Pre Patch Raiden(my Raiden salt is so real)

 

[The Highlander]

I bet Injustice players wished trident rush was -17 on block.

She needs a HUAHAUAHUAHUUUU buff, for it to really be trident rush...

 

[RM Jonnitti]

i think a lot of it is because there are a lot of people who came form injustice where chip damage was significantly lower. also a lot of people who came from other games where normals dont even do chip damage. just the mkx playerbase seems to be very diverse

 

[JJV Phoenix]

They don't remember or didn't play MK9. Simple as that.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

For most characters I think it's perfect. The design philosophy of chip is to encourage a certain level of aggression.

The only times I think chip can be too much is with the pressure characters, specifically Flame Fist and maybe Kobu Jutsu. It feels a bit cheap with such variations, but those variations do sacrifice in other areas such as 50/50's etc... so maybe it's balanced, maybe the chip could be scaled back a bit (only for them) or maybe their pressure could just be a bit more negative on block.

Don't know enough about those specific variations to make a judgement.

 

[Dinosaur]

I actually want more chip damage, for raiden only though. Treat your god right nrs.

 

[Sultani]

I haven't seen a lot of complaining about this tbh. But I would tend to agree that it's not as bad as MK9.

I have no idea what they've changed recently or whatever since I haven't really played a lot since the Tanya patch totally ruined this game, so I could be completely wrong here.

There's not a whole lot of plus on block strings. At least not as many as MK9, so you can't really just force people into blocking and eating chip through repeated pressure strings the same way.

That said, I've always said that the combination of chip on block normal combined with throw teching being a complete guess is the absolute worst part about MK games. If someone is going to force you to block from block string pressure and then use a tick throw setup and it's completely obvious and completely readable, teching the subsequent throw SHOULD NOT BE A GUESS.

Throw teching inputs should be 1+3 universally. There's no reason for them not to be.