Who in your opinion is the best character in the entire game ?

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

She locks down the screen and zones just well as some of the better zoners. This isn't to zone really but as a way to get in. Once she does, it's lights out.

 

[JHCRANE 14]

I picked Cassie Cage just because I hate playing against her more than any other character.

Reptile 4 Life!!!

 

[honeybooboo]

So ill just say this again, why not buff the rest of the cast to s tier. Then everybody would be happy

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

So ill just say this again, why not buff the rest of the cast to s tier. Then everybody would be happy

thats like having 4 broken windows out of 10, and instead of fixing the 4 windows, you break the other 6 to match

 

[Slips]

Let me add to pigs post

Her d4 is 8 frames and +20 on hit. This guarantees her b1 string and sets up her 50/50s

Her ia guns also check any zoner very well. On hit she can run in all day and again set up b1 and 50/50s.

The 2 things pig left out are ia guns and her d4. These make the things pig mentioned even better.

Cage, Kotal, Reptile, Kano, Shinnok, D'Vorah, all have similar footsie tools yet aren't considered S tier. That's just off the top of my head.

I'll admit the instant air guns are an x-factor. If someone can do them as good as SonicFox can on a good day I can see it. But even he can't do it as much as he'd like to I don't think. In the end he picks someone else over Cassie when he needs to win.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

That's actually not true anymore with the current patch. I don't even know if it was possible to hit 55% 1 bar without f34 being special cancable. Highest combo that is possible currently is 46% and that's even from a S4 as a starter as far as I know. I'm curious what combo you're talking about.

I just played xeno last night offline for 2 hours

We are obviously using current patch

@AK XEN0M0RPH help this guy out

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Cage, Kotal, Reptile, Kano, Shinnok, D'Vorah, all have similar footsie tools yet aren't considered S tier. That's just off the top of my head.

I'll admit the instant air guns are an x-factor. If someone can do them as good as SonicFox can on a good day I can see it. But even he can't do it as much as he'd like to I don't think. In the end he picks someone else over Cassie when he needs to win.

Those 6 don't have a 6f reversal special that leads to damage and a reset for more

Kind of a big deal

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

That's actually not true anymore with the current patch. I don't even know if it was possible to hit 55% 1 bar without f34 being special cancable. Highest combo that is possible currently is 46% and that's even from a S4 as a starter as far as I know. I'm curious what combo you're talking about.

F3 db2 121 21u4 4 db2 11 bd3. B212d1+2 bf4mb
39% + 13% chip = 52% and builds 2/3 bar


^^^plesse process that

So a 52% 1/3 bar combo

Jesus

 

[Slips]

Those 6 don't have a 6f reversal special that leads to damage and a reset for more

Kind of a big deal

And Cassie doesn't have a meterless launching overhead like Cage or free jab pressure like Cage off his Superman f21 and a utpunch he doesn't need to meterburn to get massive frame advantage.

Cassie doesn't have 50/50 guessing games built in a 9 frame mid like Kotal or a parry and sun ray to help mitigate zoning.

Cassie doesn't have a anti-zoning tool like D'Vorah, low pokes with no hurtboxes, a launching meterless overhead and mad pressure off her f1.

Cassie doesn't have the mobility, zoning, or 50/50's built in his f21 with meter like Reptile has. Nor can she turn friggin invisible.

Cassie doesn't have the zoning Kano has and his knee is just as fast as Cassie's b1 but also crushes lows.

Cassie doesn't have an end all be all footsie option like Shinnok sparks, nor the zoning, nor the anti-zoning he has with teleport.

Cassie has her stuff she brings to the table that these characters don't with the 6 frame flipkicks. But these characters bring something to the table she doesn't either.

All of these things are kind of a big deal that put them in A tier. (Except Kano)

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

And Cassie doesn't have a meterless launching overhead like Cage or free jab pressure like Cage off his Superman f21 and a utpunch he doesn't need to meterburn to get massive frame advantage.

Cassie doesn't have 50/50 guessing games built in a 9 frame mid like Kotal or a parry and sun ray to help mitigate zoning.

Cassie doesn't have a anti-zoning tool like D'Vorah, low pokes with no hurtboxes, a launching meterless overhead and mad pressure off her f1.

Cassie doesn't have the mobility, zoning, or 50/50's built in his f21 with meter like Reptile has. Nor can she turn friggin invisible.

Cassie doesn't have the zoning Kano has and his knee is just as fast as Cassie's b1 but also crushes lows.

Cassie doesn't have an end all be all footsie option like Shinnok sparks, nor the zoning, nor the anti-zoning he has with teleport.

Cassie has her stuff she brings to the table that these characters don't with the 6 frame flipkicks. But these characters bring something to the table she doesn't either.

All of these things are kind of a big deal that put them in A tier. (Except Kano)

Instant guns are counter zoning tools, good luck as reptile getting balls off

Cassie f3 and angle 1 flip kick is actually better than cage overhead

Cassie doesn't need to turn invisible because u can't see her 50/50 already - hence I guess she is invisible

Kano? Dude...


B1 and shinnok Sparks are both pretty oppressive

 

[Braindead]

Cassie doesn't have 50/50 guessing games built in a 9 frame mid like Kotal or a parry and sun ray to help mitigate zoning.

Pig forgot to reply to this too, she kindda has this 50/50 built in in her 11f b1. "Are you giving me plus frames from my b124 or are you gonna try to armor through it and I'll block your armor and punish?"

EDIT: Unless you were talking about literal 50/50s with War God. I assumed you were talking about Sun God and tick throw mixups off the b1.

 

[Slips]

Instant guns are counter zoning tools, good luck as reptile getting balls off

Cassie f3 and angle 1 flip kick is actually better than cage overhead

Cassie doesn't need to turn invisible because u can't see her 50/50 already - hence I guess she is invisible

Kano? Dude...


B1 and shinnok Sparks are both pretty oppressive

We've both made our case. She has great tools but not enough for me to say she's Quan Chi, Tanya, Tremor class. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

She out zones half the characters you listed

 

[haketh]

I mean like, I'm the patron Saint of Reptile upplay & a huge fan of Forceballs

They are nowhere near comparable to IAG for counter zoning or controlling space

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

We've both made our case. She has great tools but not enough for me to say she's Quan Chi, Tanya, Tremor class. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Just to add a last jab Cassie beats Tanya Quan tremor

 

[Slips]

Pig forgot to reply to this too, she kindda has this 50/50 built in in her 11f b1. "Are you giving me plus frames from my b124 or are you gonna try to armor through it and I'll block your armor and punish?"

EDIT: Unless you were talking about literal 50/50s with War God. I assumed you were talking about Sun God and tick throw mixups off the b1.

Kotal b122 mixed with b1~command throw is a pure guess with b122 being a completely safe option against most of the cast and htt confirmable into more damage if need be. Cassie has to get almost point blank to get her 50/50 going. Kotal just has to get close. And yes the swords work pretty well in War God despite how gimmicky they are.

 

[Slips]

Just to add a last jab Cassie beats Tanya Quan tremor

Why?

 

[God Confirm]

Cassie doesn't need to turn invisible because u can't see her 50/50 already - hence I guess she is invisible

I know you know this since you play the character, but just saying that's not why Reptile goes invisible, you can't react to his 50/50 either, if Cassie had EX invisibility cancels she would be in a tier of her own

And Cassie doesn't have a meterless launching overhead like Cage or free jab pressure like Cage off his Superman f21 and a utpunch he doesn't need to meterburn to get massive frame advantage.

Cassie doesn't have 50/50 guessing games built in a 9 frame mid like Kotal or a parry and sun ray to help mitigate zoning.

Cassie doesn't have a anti-zoning tool like D'Vorah, low pokes with no hurtboxes, a launching meterless overhead and mad pressure off her f1.

Cassie doesn't have the mobility, zoning, or 50/50's built in his f21 with meter like Reptile has. Nor can she turn friggin invisible.

Cassie doesn't have the zoning Kano has and his knee is just as fast as Cassie's b1 but also crushes lows.

Cassie doesn't have an end all be all footsie option like Shinnok sparks, nor the zoning, nor the anti-zoning he has with teleport.

Cassie has her stuff she brings to the table that these characters don't with the 6 frame flipkicks. But these characters bring something to the table she doesn't either.

All of these things are kind of a big deal that put them in A tier. (Except Kano)

Ok so Cassie doesn't have EVERYTHING good that every single other top tier characters has, and none of those characters have EVERYTHING that Cassie has. Cassie is up there for her own reasons and the fact that she just has so much herself. Plus some of the stuff you mentioned here is just a bit unrealistic. At best, some of the things you mentioned are just different, not even better than hers, Shinnoks footsies for example in fact they its just flat worse than Cassies

 

[Metzos]

Ok I'll help explain my side

She has 50/50 55% 1 bar combos in the corner

She can make any 50/50 safe w ex flip

6f flip kick punishes things no other character can other than buzz saw Lao except he needs meter she doesn't . Characters w safe pressure like reptile f412 db2/ or reptile b34 get rekt by flip kick. Free non meter reversal launcher into reset

If you ever jump at her u will die either on cross up or straight jumps because of her 6f aa flip kick that leads into 50/50

B124 is superman pre patch f23

7f d3

F34 and f33 can only be punished by 3 of the cast. Cassie Lao and reptile

F34 and f33 and angle 1 guessing game is dumb and are all 50/50 strings that can be made safe w ex flip . This is stupid

Flip kick punishes d1/d4s in the game into a reset combo

212d1+2 is a safe hit comfortable large damage combo starter . If blocked u can build 2/3 a bar and spend a bar by doing 212d1+2 ex gun that jails and hits u on block for 14-16% . This is Aquaman trident rush all over again. This is fucked up

One of the fastest runs

Great walk speed

She also can end combos early w b1 nut punch that is broken because it gives ex but punch frame data on hit allowing guaranteed all options and a jump in

Ending combos w up kick does a quick restand that disables wake ups

I'm now barfing as I type this garbage

This character is F'ed up


@Slips let it be known when the Cassie community biggest bitch fest is "oh god we need stamina for combos " u know that's a sign your character is broke. That's like mk9 cyrax fans saying "damn bro we need to land net "

You forgot the 3rd most important tool she has, after b12 and flip kick.


Fucked up hitbox. As a Goro player its annoying as hell doing d1xxSG in the corner, POINT BLANK and then, watching miss Cage avoid SG blocking while crouching. Just another thing to think about. Her hitbox/hurtbox needs re-adjustment.

Imo, on paper, Cassie is even better than Temp KL. In action, i believe as well, she is top 5. Dunno about top 3, but top 5 for sure.

My current top 3 are:

1) KJ Tanya.

2) Tempest Kung Lao.

3) HQT Predator and Crystaline Tremor, compete for 3rd place. Crystaline is fucked up. Once his armor trait is up, you literally cannot stop him from attacking and he can punish strings and specials that are unpunishable.

Other notable mentions for 3rd place are: Liu Kang and Johnny Cage. Jax is a close call as well.


Post edited.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Kotal b122 mixed with b1~command throw is a pure guess with b122 being a completely safe option against most of the cast and htt confirmable into more damage if need be. Cassie has to get almost point blank to get her 50/50 going. Kotal just has to get close. And yes the swords work pretty well in War God despite how gimmicky they are.

B122 with kotal into command grab.

If they block b1 and the 22 hits the command grab won't hit. It's only hit conformance into ex pizza.

Your kotal analogy is respected though since kotal Cassie is probably 5-5 due to his normals being the only ones that rival hers.

 

[Slips]

I know you know this since you play the character, but just saying that's not why Reptile goes invisible, you can't react to his 50/50 either, if Cassie had EX invisibility cancels she would be in a tier of her own



Ok so Cassie doesn't have EVERYTHING good that every single other top tier characters has, and none of those characters have EVERYTHING that Cassie has. Cassie is up there for her own reasons and the fact that she just has so much herself. Plus some of the stuff you mentioned here is just a bit unrealistic. At best, some of the things you mentioned are just different, not even better than hers, Shinnoks footsies for example in fact they its just flat worse than Cassies

No I agree, I am not saying these tools are better than Cassie's, but they are good and are at least on par or comparable to value them over hers.

There's nothing like Quan Chi's damage and vortex game.
There's nothing like Tremor's easy damage, Crystalline's armor and Aftershock's air earhshake.
There's nothing like Tanya's mobility, pressure and wakeups.
There's nothing like Predator's zoning. (Besides maybe Quan, who's already silly)

I think those things play more outside the rules than Cassie's flip kick. That's how I look at it.

 

[Metzos]

Ok thank you.

Yea she does a lot of damage in the corner...a lot of characters do and are not S tier for it.

6 frame punisher is awesome. Definitely a tool that separates her from the rest of the cast. No argument here.

Flip kick is a better than average AA. I agree.

b124 is really good, but a lot of characters have their own version of Superman f21 and hers is not good on whiff. Despite having that tool she still has to play most other her opponent's game first.

Having a fast d3 is nice but that's not what makes a character S tier. A lot of characters have 7 frame pokes.

Having a safe overhead is nice but again that's not a huge deal. There are plenty of character that not only have safe overheads, but safe overheads that launch (Jax, Cage, Jacqui, Kung Jin, D'Vorah, Reptile, Kano, Sonya) and they are not considered S tier.

Having a 50/50 which requires meter to be safe again is not something exclusive to Cassie. Jax, Sonya Jacqui, Scorpion, Kano, Reptile, D'Vorah, Erron Black and Quan have this too. Some don't even require meter at all yet only Quan is considered S tier. And most of these character do more damage with their 50/50's midscreen.

Cassie being able to punish low pokes with flip kick on block I'd say was a pretty big deal before the option select was taken out. If a Cassie player does this to you, then they deserve props cause that is a hard read with significant risk attached to it on her end.

I'd rather take her 16% chip than eat her 50/50. A great round ender but nobody is raging about her spending a bar to get 16% chip. Trident Rush was great in contrast of Aquaman's other tools and Injustice's design as a whole. Not just Trident rush alone.

Having good walk speed and run is pretty essential for her considering she has to get in.

Yes she can end her combos early with a meterless nutpunch for guaranteed 50/50 but she loses out on a lot of damage. It's lower 20%. Red Raptor was the first to discover this and I played his Cassie a decent amount.

I didn't know about the quick restand, I'll look at it.

Out of all of these points the main thing that really makes her special is her flip kick. She's one of the best punishers in the game and her corner game is stupid. That's what puts her in A tier. Everything else you mentioned are tools that a bunch of other characters have and are lucky to be considered A tier even if they have them.

Also, lets keep in mind you are trying to blow me up for saying she's A tier and not S tier. Am I really being that ridiculous?

Just pointing out the bolded arguments.

If played correctly, b12 will never completely whiff, let alone whiff punished. The entire string advances forward. B1 has a really good hitbox, it can hit opponents who try to jump out of it, for example.

True, but most of those characters 7f d3's are unsafe. Cassie's is safe (-3f IIRC). Plus on hit, she puts you in a vortex condition again.

Agreed, but her OH is not easy to react to. Plus she can make it safe using a bar, which is not difficult for Cassie to replenish. Other characters dont have the reward Cassie has from that OH, which in her case, is a free jump in into more 50/50 city. Plus, its fast (around 12-13f IIRC). Her low is around that number as well. You cant fuzzy guard that. You can only guess. And i m saying again, she can make both of those options safe, by losing a bar she can easily get back pretty fast.

Regarding punishing down pokes with flip kick, it can happen in certain MU's where opponent's down poke doesnt have enough cancel adv to a special. Its situational, but it can happen.

Against AM's ex trident rush you could push block while he used the meter and both of you were in the same situation. You cant push block ex guns, only the string before them. Cassie wins in that exchange.

No, because she has, probably the best advancing mid normal in the game. Having godlike walkspeed, run AND the best advancing mid in the game, which is safe (only Reptile, Cassie and Tempest KL can punish b12 on block), leads to good damage and can be easily hit confirmed into a combo, seems like an overkill to me.

Also her insta air guns is above good zoning, against almost anyone.

Just my two cents. She is extremely strong Slips and people are beginning to find out. Plus her normals alone, hurt like hell. 18% dmg from f33 and f212 d1+2 (or something like that, cant remember the exact commands for those two particular strings)? Seriously? And safe as well?



P.S: Fucked up hitbox.

P.S2: Out of curiosity whats your personal top 5?

Post edited.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

You forgot the 3rd most important tool she has, after b12 and flip kick.


Fucked up hitbox. As a Goro player its annoying as hell doing d1xxSG in the corner, POINT BLANK and then, watching miss Cage avoid SG blocking while crouching. Just another thing to think about. Her hitbox/hurtbox needs re-adjustment.

Imo, on paper, Cassie is even better than Temp KL. In action, i believe as well, she is top 5. Dunno about top 3, but top 5 for sure.

My current top 3 NPO are:

1) KJ Tanya.

2) Tempest Kung Lao.

3) HQT Predator and Crystaline Tremor, compete for 3rd place. Crystaline is fucked up. Once his armor trait is up, you literally cannot stop him from attacking and he can punish strings and specials that are unpunishable.

Other notable mentions are: Liu Kang and Johnny Cage. Jax is a close call as well.

As a person who plays raiden, i literally cant touch cassie. she can low poke me forever, if i try a b11 or f2 to try and catch her not blocking and she blocks she can whiff punish for full combo, f4 just gets d1 AA, and b32 lightning string if anywhere other then slightly inside max distance gets b1 into full combo or ex guns if outside the range

 

[Matix218]

I guess the argument between Slips and Pig comes down to how many characters are you going to consider "S" tier? Clearly (going off of the poll in this thread) there are three characters that the majority of people on this site consider better than Cassie. Assuming these characters do in fact have a more favorable match up chart than Cassie (not saying they do but people clearly feel that they do) that would mean that Cassie is not a top 3 character. What are the parameters for "S" tier anyway? Isn't that kind of subjective? We all (Slips and Pig included) seem to feel she is an extremely strong character, Slips is arguing that there are several characters that he feels are stronger and several other characters considered in "A" tier that are close to where he feels Cassie is. So basically Cassie is either the low end of the "S" tier or the very high end of the "A" tier (which according to Yomi has like 85% of the cast in it) so either way she is a top (probably top 5) character so I don't see why this is even worth arguing. She's either really ridiculously good or she's ridiculously good, either way she's a threat.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Slips has talked me into taking Cassie out of the top 5. However I still would like nerfs for her next patch.

My gut reaction would be to nerf her flip kick somehow, but that would take away part of her identity. It is a unique move in MKX. Jury is still out on how to properly nerf her.