Match-Up Discussion - Kano Which Kano in which matchup?

[NHDR]

I'm personally trying to work on Cutthroat so that I can use him in any matchup. I like the advantage of having F21 safe and long-reaching, plus the damage potential. Knives hitting high is a bummer but at least the recovery is good. As for dealing with zoners, his weakness? Air Kano Ball and patience. But really, you could break it all down like this:

Does your opponent zone? Cybernetic
Is your opponent weak to zoning? Cybernetic
Does your opponent bypass zoning? Cutthroat
Does your opponent rushdown well? Cutthroat or Commando

I know nothing about Commando, however. I just assume that having a parry is useful towards discouraging close combat.

 

[bdizzle2700]

I has to ask why commando vs cassie and raiden? Both have strong 50-50s and parrying without a hard read means your eating alot of dammy. Wouldnt make more sense to use cutthroat to match dammy or cyber to zone them out and stillbe able to hang with them in footsies

 

[kabelfritz]

did you play Cybernetic against me? I guess you always played commando

i think i played commando against you

 

[kabelfritz]

I has to ask why commando vs cassie and raiden? Both have strong 50-50s and parrying without a hard read means your eating alot of dammy. Wouldnt make more sense to use cutthroat to match dammy or cyber to zone them out and stillbe able to hang with them in footsies

cyber vs cassie is something that needs testing, but i went cutthroat vs raiden and it doesnt really make sense. you WILL end up in the corner eventually, and its better to have a parry there. i might upload a raiden match later.

 

[SaltShaker]

I has to ask why commando vs cassie and raiden? Both have strong 50-50s and parrying without a hard read means your eating alot of dammy. Wouldnt make more sense to use cutthroat to match dammy or cyber to zone them out and stillbe able to hang with them in footsies

Yea gotta agree with Cassie. I think one of Cassie's few disadv MU's is against Cyber.

 

[bdizzle2700]

cyber vs cassie is something that needs testing, but i went cutthroat vs raiden and it doesnt really make sense. you WILL end up in the corner eventually, and its better to have a parry there. i might upload a raiden match later.

Thats fair. On paper it makes sense. In game i can see that being tough. Just asking. My issue is mostly with a parry. Its good but with characters that have a 50-50. He lacks damage so making a wrong read hurts alot

 

[Derptile]

I'm personally trying to work on Cutthroat so that I can use him in any matchup. I like the advantage of having F21 safe and long-reaching, plus the damage potential. Knives hitting high is a bummer but at least the recovery is good. As for dealing with zoners, his weakness? Air Kano Ball and patience. But really, you could break it all down like this:

Does your opponent zone? Cybernetic
Is your opponent weak to zoning? Cybernetic
Does your opponent bypass zoning? Cutthroat
Does your opponent rushdown well? Cutthroat or Commando

I know nothing about Commando, however. I just assume that having a parry is useful towards discouraging close combat.

If you're going against a zoning character then odds are they would have some sort of trouble when you get in like Quan Chi, Kitana, or Liu Kang. So it's better to choose Cutthroat and apply pressure on them because Cybernetic's knife does no damage and is better as a spacing tool.

 

[kabelfritz]

Thats fair. On paper it makes sense. In game i can see that being tough. Just asking. My issue is mostly with a parry. Its good but with characters that have a 50-50. He lacks damage so making a wrong read hurts alot

so does blocking wrong, and blocking right it doesnt necessarily give you counter pressure. cool thing is you can even parry raidens lightning charge combos. so if they go low, delayed wakeup and high parry helps.

 

[Zhidoreptiloid]

Great thread, my question is...
what variation are best vs:
1) Johnny Cage? (i hear that is commando)
2) Cassy Cage
3) Guys, WHY You thinking is cuttthroat is best variation aganst chars with TP? Punishment from cyber is same and can be done without meter

 

[SaltShaker]

Great thread, my question is...
what variation are best vs:
1) Johnny Cage? (i hear that is commando)
2) Cassy Cage
3) Guys, WHY You thinking is cuttthroat is best variation aganst chars with TP? Punishment from cyber is same and can be done without meter

1) Yea Commando. Johnny does well against Cyber and it's likely a tough even against Cutt. Commando has the best overall toolset for that MU.

2) Cyber. Cyber's zoning actually looks like zoning in this MU, backdashed, B1's, and B2 are amazing in this MU. EX knives is better in this MU than most as well. Cyber actually gives Cassie trouble.

3) Punishment is not the same. You get more meterless damage off of F2 than anything in Cyber or Comm. When fighting characters like Ermac or Scorpion for example, it's only a matter of time before you get caught in their bs. With Cyber you can't zone them because the projectile war is horrible, and its harder to maintain pressure and tools like parry are less needed because you're getting attacked in a different way. In Cutthroat you can not only maintain pressure, but mix them up with 50/50's, apply oki on their weak WU games, and punish teleports for more meterless damage.

 

[DFC]

This isn't the ruthless thread, but I'm asking because this is the more active thread. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO AGAINST A LIST JOHNNY. Hopefully I will have a video of what happens in a set between me and my buddy who plays Johnny, tries to help me, and still destroys me.

 

[VoyagersRevenge]

This isn't the ruthless thread, but I'm asking because this is the more active thread. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO AGAINST A LIST JOHNNY. Hopefully I will have a video of what happens in a set between me and my buddy who plays Johnny, tries to help me, and still destroys me.

I beat one of these in a tournament yesterday. Cybernetic - Tons of smart knives when he's out of meter, bait out his attempt to armor through the knives. Whenever he does get in, know the strings to block and prepare for any gaps or low pokes. One enhanced kano ball cancel to challenge his pressure and do your best combo into kano ball for the distance. If you wanna mix it up, restands in the corner put us on plus.. enough for a stagger B1 into grab or B13 2+4 to stay safe and play that poke war. I found it comfortable to keep him away. Frustrate em into jumpin into ex knives to and run in to finish the juggle. Patience is important.

 

[DFC]

I beat one of these in a tournament yesterday. Cybernetic - Tons of smart knives when he's out of meter, bait out his attempt to armor through the knives. Whenever he does get in, know the strings to block and prepare for any gaps or low pokes. One enhanced kano ball cancel to challenge his pressure and do your best combo into kano ball for the distance. If you wanna mix it up, restands in the corner put us on plus.. enough for a stagger B1 into grab or B13 2+4 to stay safe and play that poke war. I found it comfortable to keep him away. Frustrate em into jumpin into ex knives to and run in to finish the juggle. Patience is important.

The Johnny I play uses a lot of Shadow Kick cancel setups to get plus frames. In my experience, I can't armor through almost all of them, and the ones I can he baits out armor at random. Like I did with Shinny, I can try to get a set with him again and you can see what he does.

 

[VoyagersRevenge]

The Johnny I play uses a lot of Shadow Kick cancel setups to get plus frames. In my experience, I can't armor through almost all of them, and the ones I can he baits out armor at random. Like I did with Shinny, I can try to get a set with him again and you can see what he does.

Definitely try to get that footage. Johnny cage has to play the ground game with you, he floats in the air like an astronaut whenever he feels he needs to jump blades. I ended up whiff punishing with timed dashes and baited out some of his forward advancing strings. I think it's best to play tag with him.

 

[bdizzle2700]

I have cyber vs alist footage if anyone wants to see in the video thread. Commando might do better but i still say ita a 5-5.

 

[Zhidoreptiloid]

What best variation against
1) Rayden TG?
2) Tanya?

 

[VoyagersRevenge]

What best variation against
1) Rayden TG?
2) Tanya?

I can take out Thundergod with Commando since I can fetch out long range parries and apply the same corner game pressure he can do. Cybernetic can keep him away as long as he's meterless and you can bait his superman since knives recover so fast. Tanya match up depends, Pyromancer can be gimmicky at first but it's all about patience and punishing fireball throws. Keep away from her low string into mist into another ex mist or throw mix up. It's annoying. Kobu jutsu might have more pressure. Just gotta condition her to respect waking up on us and keep on corner carrying. Mindless knives will let her in so it's really just being patient and tossing them for the trades

 

[Zhidoreptiloid]

What best variation against War God KK? My cyber sucks

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Cyber is probably the correct answer, though I don't think Commando nor CT have too bad of a time with him either. Seems like a pretty even MU IMO.

 

[Zhidoreptiloid]

Cyber is probably the correct answer, though I don't think Commando nor CT have too bad of a time with him either. Seems like a pretty even MU IMO.

Cyber can't zone war god, only on full-full screen, otherwise u eat ex-makalutule, that leads to 30%.
I think footsie tools of WG more-more better, than cyber (especially EX-makukulkan), and i think cyber - is footsie variation, that mean cyber sucks

 

[NHDR]

You should be able to zone War God with Cyber. Even if he gets meter and uses it on the EX sword, let him spend the meter. That's his only option to get in besides patiently walking and crouching.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

yeah if he has meter you just start playing more cautiously and try to bait the sword

 

[Zhidoreptiloid]

Guys, what about Kenshi Kenjitsu?
His tele-throw bf3 is good trade with my mid-knifes, and i think, cyber not the best variation here.
What do u think about best variation against kenjitsu?

 

[Zatoichi]

On the topic of Johnny, I use Commando. You can parry his cancels and wake ups making him hesitant to do them.

This is what I do:
Cybernetic:

Sonya
Kitana
D'vorah
Grandmaster Sub Zero
Kung Jin
Kenshi
Shinnok

Commando:

Reptile
Sub Zero(Not Grandmaster)
Erron Black
Mileena
Goro
Scorpion
War God Kotal
Johnny Cage
Liu Kang
Raiden
Predator


If I'm feeling super cocky or I end up fighting a beginner in rank matches, I'll use Cutthroat

 

[MsMiharo]

This thread needs to be revived:

These are my picks and these are VERY MUCH up for debate.

Cassie - Cyber. Keep her out, punish jump ins, etc.
D'vorah - Cyber.
Ermac - Cutthroat. Outfootsie, pressure, big punishes.
Erron Black - Commado or Cutthroat. Hard to keep out (variation dependent). Can't do anything about db1 in CT. Easy to parry his pressure.
Ferra/Torr - Cyber or Commando. Commando does really well, mid knives aren't needed to keep them out. Up close you have EX grabs and parries.
Goro - Still exploring (ie getting telestomped). I feel Cyber or Cutthroat might be best.
Jacqui - Cyber or Cutthroat. Cyber can trade with FA guns all day and keep SG out. Cutthroat can abuse her lack of wakeups.
Jason - Cutthroat. DB1 for days (100% safe). Abuse his slow pokes and movement.
Jax - Commando. Possibly Cyber, but commando forces him to second guess his pressure.
Johnny Cage - MAYBE Cutthroat. Another MU where db1 is 100% safe. I feel Commando does the worst.
Kano - All variations will win 100% of the time.
Kenshi - Cutthroat or Commando. Both can abuse him on knockdown.
Kitana - Cutthroat. DB1 is safe and can catch her jumping (EX for full combo), high knives are harder to jump than mid.
Kotal Kahn - Cyber keeps him out pretty well.
Kung Jin - No MU Exp.
Kung Lao - Commando forces him to play patiently.
Liu Kang - Not enough MU Exp.
Mileena - Cutthroat plays the better footsie game with db1 IMO. She's hard-ish to keep out.
Predator - Really depends on variation. Hunter can be kept out with Cyber. HQT is probably best for Commando or CT.
Quan Chi - No MU Exp.
Raiden - No MU Exp.
Reptile - Cyber and Commando do well.
Scorpion - Cyber can force him to yolo tele since he has a hard time coming in.
Shinnok - No MU Exp.
Sonya - No MU Exp.
Sub-Zero - Cyber. Just don't trade when he Snow Balls.
Takeda - Very little MU Exp but CT. I feel the others get outranged and Cyber can't trade with Kunai and win.
Tanya - Commando. Parry staggers or EX Command grab.
Tremor - Not sure yet. Kind of feeling Cyber or Cutthroat.