Question - Tanya Where do you put Tanya in your Tier Lists?

[GLoRToR]

War god, balanced kenshi (don't think that in a real match he can spam projectile like others that i mentioned, cuz he will get blown up and he doesnt make that much meter otherwise) cryomancer and probably more

I'd rather say that the heavy shift away from safe armouring out of every situation into huge damage has brought forth the actual issues of characters who were heavily reliant on that.
Like I said about Lackey as well, mile-wide issues regardless of the armour-nerf.
You are right in the sense that Cryo for example suffers from it, but Kotal is still solid. Balanced is still good, just not a faceroller, their issues are in their design.

Frankly, I rathered they designed the characters with actual play in mind and leave the armour bullshit for last rather than build them around armour and then nerf them to dirt.

 

[SaSSolino]

Sektor? I literally can't think of one thing he doesn't have? Insane staggers, top 3 zoning, OH/Low mixup combo starter that can be made safe with a bar, teleport, lock on rocket for crazy pressure, top 3 NJP, solid AA with S4, good frames, great meterbuild, good armour.

Personally I think Sektor is good, but not THAT good. Jason is on another league entirely.

 

[Kooron Nation]

Personally I think Sektor is good, but not THAT good. Jason is on another league entirely.

I also agree I hate Jason so much, but Sektor I don't really think has a weakness?

 

[SaSSolino]

I also agree I hate Jason so much, but Sektor I don't really think has a weakness?

Low profiling hurts him quite a lot and he has gaps in his best strings. He's strong, but again, let's not compare him to Jason.

 

[GLoRToR]

Low profiling hurts him quite a lot and he has gaps in his best strings. He's strong, but again, let's not compare him to Jason.

They literally forgot to nerf him. Guy has EVERYTHING. Safe armored unblockable, stupidest d1 in the game, button mashing for 40% combo, like 121212 your life is gone, fullscreen overhead that's + on block, to mention just a few things.

 

[ismael4790]

I'd rather say that the heavy shift away from safe armouring out of every situation into huge damage has brought forth the actual issues of characters who were heavily reliant on that.
Like I said about Lackey as well, mile-wide issues regardless of the armour-nerf.
You are right in the sense that Cryo for example suffers from it, but Kotal is still solid. Balanced is still good, just not a faceroller, their issues are in their design.

Frankly, I rathered they designed the characters with actual play in mind and leave the armour bullshit for last rather than build them around armour and then nerf them to dirt.

If they weren't ready to actually spend time redesigning characters like Lackey or Balanced, then they shouldn't have removed their armor launchers, just make it two bars like they did with Kitana and Mileena for example.

You can't just remove a tool that is vital for a character and expect no consequences.

Then you just have characters like Sektor or Smoke, designed later without armor launchers in mind, that are up there.

 

[conqueror]

I'd rather say that the heavy shift away from safe armouring out of every situation into huge damage has brought forth the actual issues of characters who were heavily reliant on that.
Like I said about Lackey as well, mile-wide issues regardless of the armour-nerf.
You are right in the sense that Cryo for example suffers from it, but Kotal is still solid. Balanced is still good, just not a faceroller, their issues are in their design.

Frankly, I rathered they designed the characters with actual play in mind and leave the armour bullshit for last rather than build them around armour and then nerf them to dirt.

War god and Balanced kenshi armor launchers were punishable by blocking or jumping over them, so it wasn't as easy as "getting out of every situation" nor safe as you describe it to be and Cryo armor launcher was very slow and because of that, it needed careful spacing and timing for different situations

Also you're really good at changing subject...

 

[GLoRToR]

If they weren't ready to actually spend time redesigning characters like Lackey or Balanced, then they shouldn't have removed their armor launchers, just make it two bars like they did with Kitana and Mileena for example.

You can't just remove a tool that is vital for a character and expect no consequences.

Then you just have characters like Sektor or Smoke, designed later without armor launchers in mind, that are up there.

Pretty much what I meant when I kept saying nrs needs to set the rules before they make the game.

War god and Balanced kenshi armor launchers were punishable by blocking or jumping over them, so it wasn't as easy as "getting out of every situation" nor safe as you describe it to be and Cryo armor launcher was very slow and because of that, it needed careful spacing and timing for different situations

They are still pretty solid, just take more work to win than S-tupid-tier.
Also, how's family?

 

[xMEECH]

Jason

I think people need to re-learn what "broken" means. Just because you are extremely good or braindead doesn't make you "broken".

 

[SaSSolino]

I think people need to re-learn what "broken" means. Just because you are extremely good or braindead doesn't make you "broken".

Messing around with the opponent's inputs and breaking armor for free counts as broken to me.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Sektor is probably close to being as good as Jason. The gaps in his strings were a big issue before the armor launcher nerf, his mids are trash yeah but it's more about matchups than tools. Jason probably only loses like 3 matchups(idk even, I only know one off the top of my head) and Sektor isn't far off.

 

[xMEECH]

Messing around with the opponent's inputs and breaking armor for free counts as broken to me.

You can get around the red screen. For example kung Lao can wakeup tele (UD) and use any of his options to hit Jason out of it. Don't armor when he has the green chain, you'd only do like 10-15% anyway. It doesn't stuff invulnerability like smoke fade, mileena fade, Cassie nutpunch etc. Parries still work on it too.

 

[SaSSolino]

You can get around the red screen. For example kung Lao can wakeup tele (UD) and use any of his options to hit Jason out of it. Don't armor when he has the green chain, you'd only do like 10-15% anyway. It doesn't stuff invulnerability like smoke fade, mileena fade, Cassie nutpunch etc. Parries still work on it too.

So you are telling me that he's only broken in some MUs? Alright, I can work with that.

 

[xMEECH]

So you are telling me that he's only broken in some MUs? Alright, I can work with that.

Having matchups with workarounds makes him not broken. It's your fault for not using a character that can counter the "broke stuff". You're handicapping yourself by choosing to play a character that doesn't have a way to deal with it, it's not the game's fault and it doesn't make the character broken.

What are you, a character loyalist or something? See how far that gets you in a game like MKX.

 

[Wigy]

War god and Balanced kenshi armor launchers were punishable by blocking or jumping over them, so it wasn't as easy as "getting out of every situation" nor safe as you describe it to be and Cryo armor launcher was very slow and because of that, it needed careful spacing and timing for different situations

Also you're really good at changing subject...

I agree some of the armour launchers didnt need nerfed but wargod was just horribly designed, same as jax. It just became a game of when is this half screen launching overhead guna fly out.

 

[THTB]

skoot the boot

Can we make this a thing?

 

[STRYKIE]

Is Jason actually 'broken' or is he just the new collusion source to convince NRS to patch the game again?

Messing around with the opponent's inputs and breaking armor for free counts as broken to me.

He had red screen pre-XL and the majority of people acted like he was still some giant meme of a character.

Mind you I'm pretty sure it was you who thought pre-patch Cryomancer was fine and that he was some secret top tier when the current patch initially dropped...

 

[RevetLeafing]

I don't think Jason is broken. I don't know if it's just because Tanya doesn't struggle with him, or if it's just my thought in general. Although I do think that the redscreen MUST go away even when he blocks an attack

 

[SoV N3RO]

Overall Tanya I'd say is A tier since she's all around good. However (and only personally speaking), seeing that imo she BODIES Kano 8-2, I put her S tier simply for the MU advantage.

 

[conqueror]

I agree some of the armour launchers didnt need nerfed but wargod was just horribly designed, same as jax. It just became a game of when is this half screen launching overhead guna fly out.

They were powerful, but they were also very risky at the same time, so i would call them balance in that sense but about your post, yeah they could kill some of the fun by mostly making the game about when its gonna come out

 

[SaSSolino]

Having matchups with workarounds makes him not broken. It's your fault for not using a character that can counter the "broke stuff". You're handicapping yourself by choosing to play a character that doesn't have a way to deal with it, it's not the game's fault and it doesn't make the character broken.

What are you, a character loyalist or something? See how far that gets you in a game like MKX.

So you are telling me that if a character breaks every MU besides 1 where he goes even, that's fine because you can always pick that single variation? Good to know.

Also yeah, I'm a loyalist, even though I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

Is Jason actually 'broken' or is he just the new collusion source to convince NRS to patch the game again?


He had red screen pre-XL and the majority of people acted like he was still some giant meme of a character.

Mind you I'm pretty sure it was you who thought pre-patch Cryomancer was fine and that he was some secret top tier when the current patch initially dropped...

Besides the fact that if I remember correctly the red screen got buffed, broken and overpowered are 2 different things. Jason is both.

Cryo was fine pre-patch and the command grab would have made him top tier if it was a mid, like (unfortunately) most CGs in the game are. He suffers a lot from option selects, but before that discovery he was top tier easy imo.

 

[Wigy]

They were powerful, but they were also very risky at the same time, so i would call them balance in that sense but about your post, yeah they could kill some of the fun by mostly making the game about when its gonna come out

I didnt enjoy the random coinflip meta. If they have a bar you were in a perma mixup situation in their effective range.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Pretty much what I meant when I kept saying nrs needs to set the rules before they make the game.

They made a set of rules, when they designed the game from ground up, but when they changed the meta, not all the decisions were all though out.

Many of the things that were changed all along during MKX lifespan has hurt several characters along the way, even the breaker cost both players stamina somewhat did really harm to stamina comeback characters.

 

[conqueror]

I didnt enjoy the random coinflip meta. If they have a bar you were in a perma mixup situation in their effective range.

Sorry, I dont understand this, what do you mean by they having a bar, that could put you in a perma mix-ups?! I mean if you blocked any of those overhead armor launchers then they are punishable

 

[STRYKIE]

So you are telling me that if a character breaks every MU besides 1 where he goes even, that's fine because you can always pick that single variation? Good to know.

Also yeah, I'm a loyalist, even though I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.



Besides the fact that if I remember correctly the red screen got buffed, broken and overpowered are 2 different things. Jason is both.

Cryo was fine pre-patch and the command grab would have made him top tier if it was a mid, like (unfortunately) most CGs in the game. He suffers a lot from option selects, but before that descovery he was top tier easy imo.

Red screen has never had any direct buffs. In fact, there's persistently been an OS where you can still get your armoured moves to come out regardless of how your buttons are randomised and has never been patched out. (albeit it's kinda hard to do on pad)

You're right in that broken and overpowered aren't the same thing, but it doesn't mean one is better than the other either.

If by OS'ing Cryo's tick grabs you mean the whole 'fuzzying' thing the Sub forums were talking about, I'm pretty sure they only brought that up to avoid the variation getting wrongly kneejerk nerfed. The window on his ticks vs the next mid hitting option are about the same as Alien's mixups pre-patch, and anyone who said that in Alien's case were more often than not told they were full of shit lol.

Regardless, tier placements are decided by how effective the character is vs every other character overall, not personal distaste towards arbitrary tools.