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What would you guys like to see in the next balance patch for Jax?

ColdSpine

"I wore those colors before you"
Anyone who thinks jax’s fatal blow is fine with that stupid unreactable start up while its an armored move well, is stupid.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
The only thing I want Jax to get is a slight buff on his f4 on block. Maybe not +6 like it used to be, but a +3/4 would be nice.

That or make f42 jail on block.
I don't think the F4 needs to be any more plus at all.
Its a mid so there is a counter, duck block, duck high.
The F42 does jail into the high if they block high on F4. So I think its fine.
If it was any more plus and jailed even on crouch it would be a block infinity into F42, F42.

I play Hunker Down and think he is very good but if I wanted one thing I'd ask for F33 or F2 to tick.
I'm fine with B32 not being special cancelable.
He has one of the strongest FB in the game, his KBs are legit and he has safe mix and staggers.
Skins would also be nice and change those fatalities or add new ones.
 

Osagri

Fear the blade of Osh-Tekk
I don't think the F4 needs to be any more plus at all.
Its a mid so there is a counter, duck block, duck high.
The F42 does jail into the high if they block high on F4. So I think its fine.
If it was any more plus and jailed even on crouch it would be a block infinity into F42, F42.

I play Hunker Down and think he is very good but if I wanted one thing I'd ask for F33 or F2 to tick.
I'm fine with B32 not being special cancelable.
He has one of the strongest FB in the game, his KBs are legit and he has safe mix and staggers.
Skins would also be nice and change those fatalities or add new ones.
The f42 wiffs, alot. It basicly useless. They crouch and u hit f42, the 2 wiffs and ur at -3 or something like that. F4 should be more on block, this is what we are saying. If f42 would jail Well that would be stupid and broken. It is like +9? dont make it jail to 2. U can cancel f4 into specials, but nothing rly connects on hit unless ur in corner.
And if ur reffering his safe mix to his f21+3 and f2d4, it aint rly safe. F21+3 is easy to Flawless block into dmg.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
The f42 wiffs, alot. It basicly useless. They crouch and u hit f42, the 2 wiffs and ur at -3 or something like that. F4 should be more on block, this is what we are saying. If f42 would jail Well that would be stupid and broken. It is like +9? dont make it jail to 2. U can cancel f4 into specials, but nothing rly connects on hit unless ur in corner.
And if ur reffering his safe mix to his f21+3 and f2d4, it aint rly safe. F21+3 is easy to Flawless block into dmg.
I was talking about whoever said F42 should jail or F4 should be plus 6 on block. It would be hells strong when he is already A+ tier.

Safe mix is B32 and Tick throw or staggers into throws.
I'd like more comboability but he is very good as is. New skins and better brutalities would be nice.
 

Osagri

Fear the blade of Osh-Tekk
I was talking about whoever said F42 should jail or F4 should be plus 6 on block. It would be hells strong when he is already A+ tier.

Safe mix is B32 and Tick throw or staggers into throws.
I'd like more comboability but he is very good as is. New skins and better brutalities would be nice.
Tick throws aren't safe thou and b32 isnt that great.
 

LaidbackOne

Scrubby nice guy
The 2 in f42 should jail once the 4 hits.
Nerf the startup on fb and make it a high.
The second 2 in 22 should jail once the first one hits.

Anyone who thinks he should be buffed is retarded
 
u guys complained here about his grab variation but what about grinnin barret ? u have not an 1+3 option here with fast heat generation, u have only 2 kbs, ur bnb combos here do only 290-300 damage, u cant setup bf2 n db4 after f33 or f2 coz its easily poked out, what do u think ?
 

Osagri

Fear the blade of Osh-Tekk
u guys complained here about his grab variation but what about grinnin barret ? u have not an 1+3 option here with fast heat generation, u have only 2 kbs, ur bnb combos here do only 290-300 damage, u cant setup bf2 n db4 after f33 or f2 coz its easily poked out, what do u think ?
It is 1% of people who complains about HD
 

ATIWAB

Noob
u guys complained here about his grab variation but what about grinnin barret ? u have not an 1+3 option here with fast heat generation, u have only 2 kbs, ur bnb combos here do only 290-300 damage, u cant setup bf2 n db4 after f33 or f2 coz its easily poked out, what do u think ?
GB lives and dies on the BF2 launcher and the amp'd ripped launcher landing for paltry 30% 2-bar combos if you're not in the corner and requires a lot of dashing to connect optimals. The advantages you have are the range and mixup on your BF2, anti-projectile/heat building Briggs Barricade special, corner carry potential, it's pretty safe overall, and since the options are a bit less predictable than the F2 mix options you have in HD I think it's the easier variation to mind-game with.

The biggest problems are that you're losing the easy 1+3 KB and you're losing your easy AA damage on Burning Hammer Amp and losing your easy four-input 4 BF4 28%ish punish for >13f advantages and you're losing the really safe get-in you have with Amp'd BF2 in Hunker Down.

The tradeoff isn't great for most matchups, but I do think it's good to learn as an anti-zoner variation.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Anyone who thinks jax’s fatal blow is fine with that stupid unreactable start up while its an armored move well, is stupid.
Its 11f right now. What would you consider a fair startup and if you want his nerves will we need the other characters unreactable Fatal Blows like Errons which is full screen?
 

ATIWAB

Noob
Its 11f right now. What would you consider a fair startup and if you want his nerves will we need the other characters unreactable Fatal Blows like Errons which is full screen?
Frost's is full screen too, shit's ridiculous. She's not as OP as Erron though so it's not a big deal, but it's annoying af to not even be able to jump at full screen when you have to respect it while she zones you out with the amp'd head projectiles.
 

ColdSpine

"I wore those colors before you"
Its 11f right now. What would you consider a fair startup and if you want his nerves will we need the other characters unreactable Fatal Blows like Errons which is full screen?
still 11f with that range is stupid, correct me if im wrong, u cant duck it, can u?

dont even get me started on erron
 

ATIWAB

Noob
What if you do d1/3 into his over head punches? Could that maybe make them stand, then you can start doing tick throws?
They can just counter-poke the blocked D1 with their own D1 way before that comes out. It also low profiles the quad grab if they try D1xxDBF1.


For context, Playback 1 is D1 D1 D1 D1 D1 D1 and Playback 2 is D1xxDBF1.

It was a video I made for someone in General Discussion who didn't understand that it doesn't matter what you cancel the D1 into or try to follow it up with as Jax, a D1 on block will always lose to them responding with their own D1 on reaction.
 

ShArp

Dedicated Broly main
They can just counter-poke the blocked D1 with their own D1 way before that comes out. It also low profiles the quad grab if they try D1xxDBF1.


For context, Playback 1 is D1 D1 D1 D1 D1 D1 and Playback 2 is D1xxDBF1.

It was a video I made for someone in General Discussion who didn't understand that it doesn't matter what you cancel the D1 into or try to follow it up with as Jax, a D1 on block will always lose to them responding with their own D1 on reaction.
Im on my phone rn so I'll get on with more detail latter but for now - you still make no sense with D1 into tick denial. Tyrant uses this, Gunny uses this (hands down the top 1 Jax atm) against other tops nrs players.

Your logic is beyond flawed. So because they can read your tick throw out of blocked D1 - the cmd grab becomes trash? So you saying I cant bait them with D1 into bf2 (which u can) couple of times and be safe/get good chunk of dmg? Once they expect u do to bf2 u do tick grab instead.

By that "logic" Biohazard should also stop doing D1 into DBF2 tick and get atleast 1/3 of dmg he gets from it in most of his matches. Aight :DDD..

Its not like Gunny dont do that against Dragon, defense monster DJT, Hayatei and rest of the top NRS crew lol.

He even just uploaded a set with sonic and kept throwing him all around once Sonic started respecting him.

Its kinda funny that I even have to talk about it lol. Now I wonder if u even play HD or you just downplay his grab game and use other variation instead.

But ofc if you expect to do ticks for free like it was in day1 - Idk what to tell you.
 

ATIWAB

Noob
Im on my phone rn so I'll get on with more detail latter but for now - you still make no sense with D1 into tick denial. Tyrant uses this, Gunny uses this (hands down the top 1 Jax atm) against other tops nrs players.

Your logic is beyond flawed. So because they can read your tick throw out of blocked D1 - the cmd grab becomes trash? So you saying I cant bait them with D1 into bf2 (which u can) couple of times and be safe/get good chunk of dmg? Once they expect u do to bf2 u do tick grab instead.

By that "logic" Biohazard should also stop doing D1 into DBF2 tick and get atleast 1/3 of dmg he gets from it in most of his matches. Aight :DDD..

Its not like Gunny dont do that against Dragon, defense monster DJT, Hayatei and rest of the top NRS crew lol.

He even just uploaded a set with sonic and kept throwing him all around once Sonic started respecting him.

Its kinda funny that I even have to talk about it lol. Now I wonder if u even play HD or you just downplay his grab game and just use other variation instead.

But ofc if you expect to do ticks for free like it was in day1 - Idk what to tell you.
I saw the FT5 set with Sonic. Once he hit the QG KB he never touched it again for the rest of any rounds, because it's not good outside of the KB, as I've mentioned every time it's come up.

He also only hit it twice off a blocked D1, over 8 games, once during corner pressure.

QG 1 - Game 2 Round 2 - He whiffs a 2 and then hits it by walking in on SF doing a standing block
QG 2- Game 3 Round 3 - He hits a F2 with no follow-up and hits QB by forward dashing in on SF doing a crouch block
QG 3 - Game 4 Round 3 - He hits it off a JI 3 into D12 D12 QG in the corner. No bar to KB.
QG 4 - Game 5 Round 2 - The blocked D1 into grab, in a corner, after two restands.
QG 5 - Game 6 Round 1 - He hits it off an AA 1 into D12 into QG. Misses the timing on the KB link and drops it after the 2 despite having both bars available.
QG 6 - Game 6 Round 3 - Blocked D1 into QG KB.
QG 7 - Game 7 Round 1 - Raw QB on dash-in. Sonic was crouch-blocking on wakeup.

You're way over-stating the value of the D1 tick, and have been since the patch. If it only comes out twice in 8 games with the "best Jax player in the world," it's not a viable option. The best way to hit the QG right now is off of AA juggles or forward dashes on someone playing super defensive or >13f advantage S4 punishes, not as a tick throw, and even then it's a huge waste of resources you need more for wakeup/BF2 Amp options after you hit the KB with it.

It's funny you mention the D1 BF2, because it's a much better option off D1s IMO -- safe get-in on Amp even if the first hit gets blocked and you whiff the throw, hits as a mid, and can't be poked out of on a D1 block cancel like the QG can, great corner carry, etc.

Agree to disagree tho, tired of explaining the same shit to you at this point tbh.

tl;dr - it's not a good tick throw. the best opportunities to use it aren't off of ticks at all. it's significantly worse since patch removed tick options. it's trash and a waste of resources after you get the KB with it.
 

ATIWAB

Noob
Back on topic as far as balance patch changes --

Jax buffs:
• Fix his F4 being minus on hit when opponent is crouching as Youngak76 pointed out in other threads
• Restore some of the tick grab options that were available on Day 1 for his Quad Grab to make it more viable

Jax nerfs:
• Change his Fatal Blow to a high.
• Make the Arm Missile KB require 8 hits instead of 6 -- makes it more execution heavy and less free off other KBs.
• BF2 Amp probably shouldn't be so safe.
• Being able to KB the B2 off a JI2 hit every time never felt fair. Maybe less stagger frames off the JI2 on hit.
 

R00KI30FTH3Y3AR

(S)teel (V)alley (K)ombat
Even though I already feel like he got stomped into the ground with the hardest nerfs since the life of the game started, all I really want is for the QG not to cost two bars of meter. One at most if the damage on it outside of KB is going to be so miniscule as well as it's viability as a standalone move outside of tick throws getting continually nerfed each patch.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Back on topic as far as balance patch changes --

Jax buffs:
• Fix his F4 being minus on hit when opponent is crouching as Youngak76 pointed out in other threads
• Restore some of the tick grab options that were available on Day 1 for his Quad Grab to make it more viable

Jax nerfs:
• Change his Fatal Blow to a high.
• Make the Arm Missile KB require 8 hits instead of 6 -- makes it more execution heavy and less free off other KBs.
• BF2 Amp probably shouldn't be so safe.
• Being able to KB the B2 off a JI2 hit every time never felt fair. Maybe less stagger frames off the JI2 on hit.
I feel like they can just block the B2 after jip2.

As for F4 being minus on crouch block I agree but if its minus on crouch only that's dumb, probly why I get blown up when they crouch and I hit.

What about his Quad Grab KB, I feel like its way to hard to pull off consistently. Is it a 3f link on each hit or less? Maybe add 2-3 additional frames to press each button to get the KB. as it stands the Krushing Blow is triggered by pressing 2-4-3 all at the last possible moment and it should have a couple more frames to press each one to trigger KB or make it just on the last button being pressed at last possible moment.

But yeah I feel his Fatal Blow is too strong being a Mid that is half screen 11f. I'd make it 16f startup and a high, it will still be unreactable.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Even though I already feel like he got stomped into the ground with the hardest nerfs since the life of the game started, all I really want is for the QG not to cost two bars of meter. One at most if the damage on it outside of KB is going to be so miniscule as well as it's viability as a standalone move outside of tick throws getting continually nerfed each patch.
It does suck to spend twice bars for 4% extra damage on Quad Grab but he does have a KB on it which nets 50%.

I'd be fine with it costing two bars since it does have huge damage on it but the requirements are to press each button at the last possible moment (seems like its a 3f or less link) all if the buttons have different timing and the last two can be pressed after a bounce. Its mad hard to get that consistently and its weird cuz I have no problems doing 2 frame links on hailing from D1 on several characters.
 

ATIWAB

Noob
I feel like they can just block the B2 after jip2.
Nah, go lab it, it's a legit combo, not just a frame trap or hard-to-block. Record your Jax doing JI2 immediately into full charge B2 -- if it shows 3 hits, you did it right. Then go try to block out of it. It has too much stagger to get out of and links. I use it a lot for a guaranteed B2KB -> F4 -> DBF1 243KB.

What about his Quad Grab KB, I feel like its way to hard to pull off consistently. Is it a 3f link on each hit or less? Maybe add 2-3 additional frames to press each button to get the KB. as it stands the Krushing Blow is triggered by pressing 2-4-3 all at the last possible moment and it should have a couple more frames to press each one to trigger KB or make it just on the last button being pressed at last possible moment.
It's easy as fuck offline -- just watch the dust clouds on the ground -- but the inputs are definitely a little less forgiving online with delay. I don't think the game should be balanced around online play, though.

A good change might be making the full combo only cost a bar for the last hit instead of costing two bars for the last two hits.
 

R00KI30FTH3Y3AR

(S)teel (V)alley (K)ombat
It does suck to spend twice bars for 4% extra damage on Quad Grab but he does have a KB on it which nets 50%.

I'd be fine with it costing two bars since it does have huge damage on it but the requirements are to press each button at the last possible moment (seems like its a 3f or less link) all if the buttons have different timing and the last two can be pressed after a bounce. Its mad hard to get that consistently and its weird cuz I have no problems doing 2 frame links on hailing from D1 on several characters.
I've labbed this up a few times before, but I don't see any advantage to the bars after you meet the KB requirements. So what happens then? Jax has no consistent launchers to make this a worthy combo ender except for in the corner and good luck with that lol.