Question - Sonya Blade What makes CO her best variation? Seriously?

[errormacro7]

Serious question.

My favorite variation is by far Demolition, but I main Covert Ops. It's by far the easiest variation to learn. Old school military stance, fancy parry, easy bnbs. You don't have to worry about summoning drones or reloading grenades. But as I've been playing this variation over the months and watching some tournament footage, I really don't think it's as good as people make it out to be. Look at military stance, her main tool, for example. Not only do those mixups have holes, but every move out of that stance is punishable. I'm not saying they should be safe though, it's a fair trade-off for the mixup potential it has, but putting yourself at risk of eating a 30% or higher full combo punish while trying to mix up a 10% grab, low or a yolo reactable OH isn't very smart, is it?

 

[bdizzle2700]

In corner its ggs no rere's dough. And its stupid. And the parry is still a threat.

 

[Dedlock]

Serious question.

My favorite variation is by far Demolition, but I main Covert Ops. It's by far the easiest variation to learn. Old school military stance, fancy parry, easy bnbs. You don't have to worry about summoning drones or reloading grenades. But as I've been playing this variation over the months and watching some tournament footage, I really don't think it's as good as people make it out to be. Look at military stance, her main tool, for example. Not only do those mixups have holes, but every move out of that stance is punishable. I'm not saying they should be safe though, it's a fair trade-off for the mixup potential it has, but putting yourself at risk of eating a 30% or higher full combo punish while trying to mix up a 10% grab, low or a yolo reactable OH isn't very smart, is it?

I pick Covert Ops because I believe that it is representative of classic Sonya and I;ve gotten better with parrying and have noted matches swing to my favor after ex parrying for a 30% combo.

I do think Military Stance is too simple. predictable and slow for poking, once your opponent spots Sonya making that funny stance they already know whats coming. so I usually use MS exclusively as a combo extender, I would love it if they sped up her kartwheel (made it like MK9) and made her reverse Kartwheel activate on whiff (without touching opponent), this would enable us to deploy it as casual moves ( similar to MK9 Sonya) to beef up her poking game for the time being its basically a combo extender. Also I believe they've wasted one button by having Triangle serve as canceling the military stance, they could have assigned it a fourth move or something and they could have made block as cancel.

In general I don't think the Covert OPs variation has been hyped all that much, I think its decent and gives you the tools to get the job done but its not over powered or anything and its more risk reward or a ratio of (Risk Risk :Reward.)

 

[errormacro7]

I pick Covert Ops because I believe that it is representative of classic Sonya and I;ve gotten better with parrying and have noted matches swing to my favor after ex parrying for a 30% combo.

I do think Military Stance is too simple. predictable and slow for poking, once your opponent spots Sonya making that funny stance they already know whats coming. so I usually use MS exclusively as a combo extender, I would love it if they sped up her kartwheel (made it like MK9) and made her reverse Kartwheel activate on whiff (without touching opponent), this would enable us to deploy it as casual moves ( similar to MK9 Sonya) to beef up her poking game for the time being its basically a combo extender. Also I believe they've wasted one button by having Triangle serve as canceling the military stance, they could have assigned it a fourth move or something and they could have made block as cancel.

In general I don't think the Covert OPs variation has been hyped all that much, I think its decent and gives you the tools to get the job done but its not over powered or anything and its more risk reward or a ratio of (Risk Risk :Reward.)

Covert Ops is definitely overrated. 95% of Sonya players play this variation almost exclusively.
I think Demolition is the best variation now. High damage, decent zoning, great wakeup, good corner setup. Her reload should be faster though.

 

[nleaguewitsatan]

I think demo is ahead of covert ops. The potential to convert in demo is insane with how long the sg holds them. Off of an air to air win in covert you can pretty much only get a run f2 b1. In demo you can get over 30%. Also using close grenades after a blocked string for safety is just starting to be explored. Keep an eye on demo this variation is strong.

 

[RexyWrecks]

Her parry is what makes CO the best variation in my opinion. Wakeups can be stuffed by many chars with quick hitting moves in this game. Just the threat of the parry will cause your opponent to hesitate.

 

[Tony at Home]

First, let's get this out of the way. Her overhead out of military stance is not something people are consistently reacting to, and there's a reason for that. It probably has around 19-ish frames of reactable animation, you can't just count the entire startup. She can also mix it up by doing a b1 xx MS4 instead of a b13 xx MS4 so it can come at different parts of a string.

But yes, Covert Ops definitely can't be considered her best variation, although it's very, very good. Demolitions is definitely just as good.

I'd hesitate to call one better than the other. They are different playstyles and take care of different needs. Demolitions is definitely good at dealing against opponents with strong jumping in games (Kung Jin for example) and has better counter zoning potential, but Covert Ops definitely needs to take care of fast teleporters like Scorpion, and is also well suited for characters that can't deal with extreme rushdown.

 

[errormacro7]

First, let's get this out of the way. Her overhead out of military stance is not something people are consistently reacting to, and there's a reason for that. It probably has around 19-ish frames of reactable animation, you can't just count the entire startup. She can also mix it up by doing a b1 xx MS4 instead of a b13 xx MS4 so it can come at different parts of a string.

But yes, Covert Ops definitely can't be considered her best variation, although it's very, very good. Demolitions is definitely just as good.

I'd hesitate to call one better than the other. They are different playstyles and take care of different needs. Demolitions is definitely good at dealing against opponents with strong jumping in games (Kung Jin for example) and has better counter zoning potential, but Covert Ops definitely needs to take care of fast teleporters like Scorpion, and is also well suited for characters that can't deal with extreme rushdown.

I agree, but I think Special Forces is better at counter zoning because the drone call is faster. You don't want to be out of grenades against a zoner.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Demo Sonya bes Sonya. Even with lower damage pre-patch I had the same opinion. But with EX Ring being a mid buffing up her zoning game and higher damage per combo because of multiple grenades, it just made the gap larger.

 

[DaZengie]

I play demolition and special forces exclusively now. I don't find covert ops fun anymore. I think CO is easier to play because you don't have to worry about drone and grenade management, and the execution is by far easier. It's still a great variation for sure. The only reason I dislike CO is because I don't have a security blanket whereas in special forces I know my homing missile can protect me (almost a free combo breaker and forces the opponent to block or jump away) and in demolition I can wake up with bake n wake. The threat of slow projectiles is too good.

 

[Prinz]

Easy safe 50/50 with high reward and little to no risk. That's about it.

 

[errormacro7]

Easy safe 50/50 with high reward and little to no risk. That's about it.

You got it backwards.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Easy safe 50/50 with high reward and little to no risk. That's about it.

Sonya CO will got punished heavily by everyone when they can make good read.
B14 is the riskiest string ever, especially when people know how Sonya CO plays her game. If people have armor they can armor through the low for whatever. It's easy to back dash out of the low hit, and because Sonya always does B14, DB2 for MS, when the low hit misses it will become B142 which is terrible on whiff and block. Once you do B1 you cannot stop because B1, B14 are at around -15. In conclusion when people stand block, it means they are expecting the B1 coming, if you B1 is blocked by an experience player prepare to be punished
Yes I know B14 is gapless when used at farther distance, good luck trying to space Sonya perfectly EVERY SINGLE TIME you do B1.
There is another good string to mixup with MS too. B332, a nice low starter, with the fourth hit MISSES ON EVERYONE AND NRS DIDN'T WANT TO FIX THIS.
Even if you are successful with those two options and ready in MS stance, Sonya can still be punished on read. The overhead cart wheel is 22 frame which can be blocked on reaction.
Finally, good luck trying to combo on anyone that loves jumping. Her MS wasn't designed to hit people in the air and you will never be able to convert combos in such situation

 

[errormacro7]

Sonya CO will got punished heavily by everyone when they can make good read.
B14 is the riskiest string ever, especially when people know how Sonya CO plays her game. If people have armor they can armor through the low for whatever. It's easy to back dash out of the low hit, and because Sonya always does B14, DB2 for MS, when the low hit misses it will become B142 which is terrible on whiff and block. Once you do B1 you cannot stop because B1, B14 are at around -15. In conclusion when people stand block, it means they are expecting the B1 coming, if you B1 is blocked by an experience player prepare to be punished
Yes I know B14 is gapless when used at farther distance, good luck trying to space Sonya perfectly EVERY SINGLE TIME you do B1.
There is another good string to mixup with MS too. B332, a nice low starter, with the fourth hit MISSES ON EVERYONE AND NRS DIDN'T WANT TO FIX THIS.
Even if you are successful with those two options and ready in MS stance, Sonya can still be punished on read. The overhead cart wheel is 22 frame which can be blocked on reaction.
Finally, good luck trying to combo on anyone that loves jumping. Her MS wasn't designed to hit people in the air and you will never be able to convert combos in such situation

C0v3rt 0p$ 1$ $h1t

 

[FCP/EMP SCAR]

Any true Sonya main knows Covert is her weakest now, but all her variations are really strong at high level.

 

[Dedlock]

Finally, good luck trying to combo on anyone that loves jumping. Her MS wasn't designed to hit people in the air and you will never be able to convert combos in such situation

agreed the lack of control of the air in CO is frustrating, I really miss her rising bicycle kick. that's why Im hoping MS3 gets fixed to activate on whiff, it'll be a good move to counter those serial jumpers. but they had to give Sonya's reverse Kartwheel to Cassie, so there is that.

 

[Dedlock]

Even if you are successful with those two options and ready in MS stance, Sonya can still be punished on read. The overhead cart wheel is 22 frame which can be blocked on reaction.

thats the thing her Cartwheel (double kick) should not be 22 frames, that makes its only purpose for guaranteed juggles/combo extender, it should be a move we can use while fighting or poking but its so slow and very negative on block, so using it in other situations is basically a death wish. the Reverse kartwheel has an 8 frame start up but the regular one is 22 frames?

add on top of that is MS Is not really that damaging.

 

[errormacro7]

Any true Sonya main knows Covert is her weakest now, but all her variations are really strong at high level.

Yeah, I like how all of her variations are viable. She can deal with the entire cast.

 

[kabelfritz]

tym is gonna go crazy if someone will ever show off the full potential of demolition.

 

[BLACKRENEGADE]

tym is gonna go crazy if someone will ever show off the full potential of demolition.

I don't think TYM is ready for the full potential of most variations. Everyone just sticks to the OP characters and variations. In EVO, I expect someone to get caught offguard by some new tech.

 

[kabelfritz]

I don't think TYM is ready for the full potential of most variations. Everyone just sticks to the OP characters in variations. In EVO, I expect someone to get caught offguard by a some new tech.

just look how nikolas just won gbs with mystic ermac. is or has that variation ever been much worse or worse at all than MoS? i dont think so, yet everything you saw until now was MoS.

great sleepers:

Raiden MoS
Demo and Spec Ops sonya
all of jacqui
blood and Sun god kotal
unbreakable Sub
all of Reptile
gunslinger erron
ancestral kung jin (its the most ridiculous thing in mkx right now nobody brought this char out yet)

and im sure im missing a couple

 

[Xx-TGODPRINCE-Xx]

In corner its ggs no rere's dough. And its stupid. And the parry is still a threat.

I completely agree. Sonya in neutral is fine but corner..... OMG wreck city

 

[Alright RyRy]

I think it is her worst Variation. Every single time she goes into MS it is punishable even the cancel.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I'll probably never be convinced that CO Sonya isn't her best variation simply b/c of the corner rape.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I think it is her worst Variation. Every single time she goes into MS it is punishable even the cancel.

Please explain how the cancel is unsafe.

Also CrazySteady showed how good Demolition is at ESL.