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Question What makes a player good?

F

Fred Marvel

It's actually Freddy Marvel
hai TYM its me again ^_^

so upon everyone telling me i suck at this game followed by me insisting people just play me if they think so (a few have) then them saying things along the lines of "lol i dont play online" or "online is a joke" it seems that most of you or those that ive run into seem to think its not possible to show and prove online. also when i say im better than ___ (not naming names because im not intending to blow anyone up) they always say things like "lol you play online they play offline" or "they does well offline how are you better?"
so my question to you guys is what makes someone good?

in my opinion it would be their knowledge of the game, the reads they make, the decisions they make and setups they choose to use in certain situations (ie certain stages/matchups), awareness of stage (using/not using interactibles, getting in/out of corner and maintaining that etc), spacing, and adaptability/learning quickly in a game or set. now all of those things (among others because i probably forgot stuff) dont take a tournament to be seen so why cant someone show that they are good online? winning is cool but i dont think you need to win to show that you are good at the game especially in a game this matchup heavy you can multiple good reads and punish properly but still lose because the matchup is horrid.

so what do you guys think?
 
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RM AtK!

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
footsies fundamnetals etc pressure reads oky yomi blah blah but i dont agree good players arent online as well as offline. but its really hard to give a good ft 5 in an online setting. some people are good at playing in lag and some people arent you really have to play offline to actually see whos better imo. (unless its just totally obv whos better)
 
Compbros

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
Quoting something that has nothing to do with fighters and making it apply to fighters: I can't define it but I know it when I see it.
 
STB Shujinkydink

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
Mr Marvel i was you a few years ago. I only played online as I had no offline scene(still dont without a 5 hour drive). It wasnt until @Tom Brady bugged me for years to finally prove it and go to a tournament until i realized what being "good" actually is. I went to my first major (devastation 2011 for MK) expecting to win maybe one match. I ended up going 6-2 including wins over alex valle,tyrant and showtime before finally finishing 9th losing to 16 bit and B W1zz. I ultimately ended up changing a lot of peoples minds about a character who at the time was considered bottom 2 and proving to be a serious threat. Thats when I earned the communitys respect.

Now dont get me wrong, im an online player and always will be and will defend online till the day I die, but as good as you do theres never anything on the line. A lot of the times im playing people and I will just be trying out setups or punishes or learning a MU and dont play my game 100%. Factor in the odd lag spike here or there and the fact that reactions are cut off a bit and its hard to justify a win. A tournament pits both people in the same situation, on the same system, fighting to ft3,ft2 whatever it is with a lot on the line. A win there, especially over an already established player will earn you a spot in the "good" catagory. Other than that the highest youll ever achieve is the title of "good insert character here MU experience". So if you want to prove yourself to the world, and or just see if you think you are as good as you think you are against the best in the world then go to a major and see how you do.

TL;DR Im the best quan chi
 
EMPEROR PRYCE

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
I say the greatest trait for ANY and EVERY player to have in this game, is knowing the spacing on every character's normals, strings and specials. as well as learning the ability of each interactable, learning their hitboxes and finding a way to avoid them. If you have a strong understanding where to be against every character and how to avoid their options, you are good at the game, period. Combos and set ups come at a higher level.

Whiff punishing is the BIGGEST part of this game. Remember that. If you can't whiff punish correctly, normally you will have to a take a risk to get in. Well if you space yourself correctly, whiff punishing will become simple.

A great example, Zatanna vs Batgirl. A match up many would think batgirl wins, zatanna zones (for the most part) and batgirl is an "anti zoner". Well no one can tell me batgirl gets in for free. she doesnt. A normal zatanna is going to play her game, throw rings until a normal batgirl teleports and BAM vortex time. Well what if zatanna baits the teleport? Free punish obviously. The risk/reward favors both sides, but more so for zatanna. why? Batgirl has to RISK an unsafe teleport to stop zatanna from teleporting and zoning. Zatanna doesnt HAVE to throw rings, as long as the batgirl understands its an option, it will always be a possibility. Ok so now batgirl can't teleport, what are her options? Bola has a long start up and mb teleport by zatanna will punish. Batarangs are high so they will get ducked. So now we have this situation where batgirl can't zone, zatanna can't without a slow mb fireball up and both have good counterzoning options. So what's up with this match up? one normal. Zatanna stand 3. This single normal trumps EVERYTHING batgirl does. It beats out cartwheel from max distance, a huge phantom hitbox catches dashes, and it outranges every single one of batgirls normals. Does this mean you can throw it out wild and expect to win? No! Why?

Because you need a complete understanding of spacing, whiff punishing and character knowledge. If I know the options of your character and i understand a way to get past them, ive won at the character select screen UNLESS my opponent has the same skill set or better.

so yeaaahh.. my answer lol
 
F

Fred Marvel

It's actually Freddy Marvel
STB Shujinkydink said:
Now dont get me wrong, im an online player and always will be and will defend online till the day I die, but as good as you do theres never anything on the line. A lot of the times im playing people and I will just be trying out setups or punishes or learning a MU and dont play my game 100%. Factor in the odd lag spike here or there and the fact that reactions are cut off a bit and its hard to justify a win. A tournament pits both people in the same situation, on the same system, fighting to ft3,ft2 whatever it is with a lot on the line. A win there, especially over an already established player will earn you a spot in the "good" catagory. Other than that the highest youll ever achieve is the title of "good insert character here MU experience". So if you want to prove yourself to the world, and or just see if you think you are as good as you think you are against the best in the world then go to a major and see how you do.

TL;DR Im the best quan chi
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trying stuff out online is fine i actually do the same thing sometimes. but as i said i know the stakes arent high and i dont think winning is required to show that you can play. i dont mean that youre competing at the highest possible level online but why cant you just show that you are good at the game. maybe its just me but i can see online shenanigans and someone who is only winning due to lag and online bs but and i can differentiate that from someone who knows what they are doing etc
but it sounds like in this community the only way you can be good is by winning in a tourament, thank you for your input sir :)
 
Enigma642

Enigma642

Noob
It is much easier to perform well online where there is nothing on the line (pun intended). You come up against a guy and have a bad couple rounds...no biggie. Either the guy continues to play and you run it back on him, or you take it out on the next guy. Either way you walk away feeling good. Either that or you get bodied, go to bed angry, and forget about it the next day. Not so in a tournament. There is added pressure. Nerves come into play. You second guess your reads, knowing you may not have an opportunity download the opponent. You have a bad round or two and next thing you know, you are out of the tournament looking/feeling like a scrub. You can only overcome that with experience. That, and all the stuff you listed, is what makes a person good.
 
GGA Saucy Jack

GGA Saucy Jack

The artist formerly known as ImNewbieSauce
The reason offline players have a problem with online, is that it is literally a different game. And that's fine. My guess would be that most people take Injustice the Online version for what it is, and Injustice the offline version for what it is.

A basic game play example is the movement in Injustice (offline). As a DD player, a rather large part of my game in many matchups is turtling, and punishing someone's forward dash. I find this to be next to impossible in Injustice the Online version. So for me (I can't speak for others) there are many MUs where I'm crippled and would need to redevelop my character.

Now an obvious counter argument to that would be "well if you played online more, maybe you could do that, you aren't used to the timing". And I agree completely. That's why I don't say online or offline is better, I say they are two different games. But since I am lucky enough to have an offline scene, I play that "version" of the game.

I also agree to your point that knowledge of how the game works contributes to being a good player. Correctly understanding the strengths and weaknesses in characters is a big part. Understanding what makes tools good or bad, and how you apply that to your game play is generally a good indicator.
 
F

Fred Marvel

It's actually Freddy Marvel
GGA Saucy Jack said:
The reason offline players have a problem with online, is that it is literally a different game. And that's fine. My guess would be that most people take Injustice the Online version for what it is, and Injustice the offline version for what it is.

A basic game play example is the movement in Injustice (offline). As a DD player, a rather large part of my game in many matchups is turtling, and punishing someone's forward dash. I find this to be next to impossible in Injustice the Online version. So for me (I can't speak for others) there are many MUs where I'm crippled and would need to redevelop my character.

Now an obvious counter argument to that would be "well if you played online more, maybe you could do that, you aren't used to the timing". And I agree completely. That's why I don't say online or offline is better, I say they are two different games. But since I am lucky enough to have an offline scene, I play that "version" of the game.

I also agree to your point that knowledge of how the game works contributes to being a good player. Correctly understanding the strengths and weaknesses in characters is a big part. Understanding what makes tools good or bad, and how you apply that to your game play is generally a good indicator.
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i dont mean this an any type of insulting way at all but wouldnt being able to adust your gameplay style and adapt efficiently because that doesnt work online be the better thing to do? or wouldnt that be what a better player would do?
im just asking because i usually play a bait and punish lamer style but i know in some matchups i cant i might have to rushdown and that on certain stages (like ferris) i need a bigger sense of urgency to get in because if they get space im fucked.
 
HomeLee1121

HomeLee1121

Noob
Fred Marvel said:
trying stuff out online is fine i actually do the same thing sometimes. but as i said i know the stakes arent high and i dont think winning is required to show that you can play. i dont mean that youre competing at the highest possible level online but why cant you just show that you are good at the game. maybe its just me but i can see online shenanigans and someone who is only winning due to lag and online bs but and i can differentiate that from someone who knows what they are doing etc
but it sounds like in this community the only way you can be good is by winning in a tourament, thank you for your input sir :)
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Now don't get me wrong fred, but who exactly has said this to you? I would actually like a name and a quote so i can see for myself. Most of when i see people say this stuff to you, they're more on lines of "go to an offline scene and prove that you are good" as in you don't have to win but go and show you can hang with the top players that people name. That's more where they are getting at and not "you HAVE to win a tournament to be good" b/c based off that logic only a few players are good then lol
 
STB Shujinkydink

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
Fred Marvel said:
trying stuff out online is fine i actually do the same thing sometimes. but as i said i know the stakes arent high and i dont think winning is required to show that you can play. i dont mean that youre competing at the highest possible level online but why cant you just show that you are good at the game. maybe its just me but i can see online shenanigans and someone who is only winning due to lag and online bs but and i can differentiate that from someone who knows what they are doing etc
but it sounds like in this community the only way you can be good is by winning in a tourament, thank you for your input sir :)
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Its not just this community its really anything competitive. People cant say with legitimacy some guy they saw playing football in the park is better than manning
 
ColdBoreMK23

ColdBoreMK23

Noob Saibot
There are good online warriors who have beat great offline players at tournaments.

If you're good, you're good. Offline, online, etc. Doesnt matter. Even if they lose the set bu prove they are the real deal.
 
GGA Saucy Jack

GGA Saucy Jack

The artist formerly known as ImNewbieSauce
Fred Marvel said:
i dont mean this an any type of insulting way at all but wouldnt being able to adust your gameplay style and adapt efficiently because that doesnt work online be the better thing to do? or wouldnt that be what a better player would do?
im just asking because i usually play a bait and punish lamer style but i know in some matchups i cant i might have to rushdown and that on certain stages (like ferris) i need a bigger sense of urgency to get in because if they get space im fucked.
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I would say yes and no. Since the core game play (just my opinion) is so vastly different, it's not just adjusting (oh I rush down normally but I cant, I'll have to lame it out) but it's literally "a different game"

The mechanics of Injustice (offline) dictate that forward dashes are punishable. Characters are designed for this. If you can't do that, my argument is that you are literally changing how the game was meant to played, hence, it's not the same game.

When you need to adjust your playstyle, it's not eliminating your tools, you just have to find a different way to use them. But online vs offline literally eliminates functions of the game. There is no "quick adjustment" to that. You need to completely redevelop what your character does.

People may agree or disagree, but I personally think that makes it a different game.
 
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