What is the current tier list for IGAU as of 7/23/2013?

[shaowebb]

Lots of superman hate. no love for f23 f23 breath lol

More than f23 breath.

• He can mix it up up his f23 patterns with ground zap to screw with your block reads.
• use his lasers to generate enough block stun to dash in on folks
• he has a 2 frame super thats capable of stuffing everything
• all his moves are so low on startup and recovery (especially on meter burn) that he can pressure with the best of them
• he is extremely high damage
• generates great meter yet is not meter reliant to do combos...basically nets him easy additional pressure and quicker access to the super yet his game doesnt' justify why he should battery so well
• fucking stupid reset damage...like REALLY fucking stupid
• you cannot pick armor to get around him as his gimmick breaks it
• he is VERY low execution low risk HIGH reward
• he has armored wakeups that are among some of the best in the game so you cant pressure his wakeup very easily...you generally have to block because guessing air grab low grab or other is like rolling the dice on your character
• he has one of the best throws I've seen and it MURDERS wakeups
• he has excellent air mobility with his air dash that leads to crossups and full combos
• deceptive hit boxes and hit properties create blocking scenarios that require additional knowledge and makes him a hard character to just read and react to without experience in the matchup for your character vs all his tools (huge range on moves that look to not come out that far, breathe not having a hit box the full length of its animation, and a laser that strafes the ground that is NOT a low? Cmon...how the hell do you read this guy when he is counterintuitive to common sense reads of how a move initially appears to operate. Tons of his stuff defies the logical assumption of how its hit properties work and in general he out priorities most shit with it due to his insane frame data)
• he has access to the power interactibles on stages and those are the best in the game
• and his best strings come out SO FAR and are so fast they outpoke and stuff folks.

He is FAR too high of a reward for FAR too little effort. Next to zero risk to anything he does and all his tools let him force the match to run at his own pace. In general, he forces a completely to near completely reactionary form of gameplay at all times but is not restricted to any single tactic of play as he excels at ALL of them. Way to plus on block, low on startup and recovery to warrant his damage. Character is just plain braindead even if you can mix up your tactics.

 

[Lex Luthor II]

More than f23 breath.

• He can mix it up up his f23 patterns with ground zap to screw with your block reads.
• use his lasers to generate enough block stun to dash in on folks
• he has a 2 frame super thats capable of stuffing everything
• all his moves are so low on startup and recovery (especially on meter burn) that he can pressure with the best of them
• he is extremely high damage
• generates great meter yet is not meter reliant to do combos...basically nets him easy additional pressure and quicker access to the super yet his game doesnt' justify why he should battery so well
• fucking stupid reset damage...like REALLY fucking stupid
• you cannot pick armor to get around him as his gimmick breaks it
• he is VERY low execution low risk HIGH reward
• he has armored wakeups that are among some of the best in the game so you cant pressure his wakeup very easily...you generally have to block because guessing air grab low grab or other is like rolling the dice on your character
• he has one of the best throws I've seen and it MURDERS wakeups
• he has excellent air mobility with his air dash that leads to crossups and full combos
• deceptive hit boxes and hit properties create blocking scenarios that require additional knowledge and makes him a hard character to just read and react to without experience in the matchup for your character vs all his tools (huge range on moves that look to not come out that far, breathe not having a hit box the full length of its animation, and a laser that strafes the ground that is NOT a low? Cmon...how the hell do you read this guy when he is counterintuitive to common sense reads of how a move initially appears to operate. Tons of his stuff defies the logical assumption of how its hit properties work and in general he out priorities most shit with it due to his insane frame data)
• he has access to the power interactibles on stages and those are the best in the game
• and his best strings come out SO FAR and are so fast they outpoke and stuff folks.

He is FAR too high of a reward for FAR too little effort. Next to zero risk to anything he does and all his tools let him force the match to run at his own pace. In general, he forces a completely to near completely reactionary form of gameplay at all times but is not restricted to any single tactic of play as he excels at ALL of them. Way to plus on block, low on startup and recovery to warrant his damage. Character is just plain braindead even if you can mix up your tactics

ex-frickin-actly.

Tis why I dropped him, and went to WW, a similar character in many ways... but MUCH more fun/interesting/challenging.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

The whole WW takes brains argument against Superman doesn't make her any worse. She's definitely a better character than Superman.

IDK why people say about her lack of a full screen projectile, that would be the stupidest thing ever. Fullscreen projectile in SS would mean she'd be the ultimate turtle in the game. She'd be Kenshi with a high hitting shoulder since shield toss is only -2.

Its not like she doesnt already have iadg.

 

[shaowebb]

ex-frickin-actly.

Tis why I dropped him, and went to WW, a similar character in many ways... but MUCH more fun/interesting/challenging.

Yeah, at least her frame data and hit boxes make sense. Superman is stupid in how GOOD all his shit is allowed to be on block and startup and on hit. Just way too little startup and recovery and way too high a priority, damage ,and advantage to cheer for that character. He's easily so good he could have frame data adjusted across his entire character and still be good so why does he need all that along with his damage and armor breaking ability? Bullshit character.

Also I must say in regards to Wonder Woman that you have one heck of a respectable wakeup with lasso spin, but at least her wakeup game isn't filled with so many options that you can't attempt to read it and take risks on it. Superman has to be given way too much room for my tastes. Can't jump, have to worry on backdash given his tool ranges and MB properties, can low grab you...I mean seriously every approach can potentially lead to you getting bodied. At least with Wonder Woman I can just block or backdash without having to worry every time if even that defensive tactic was sane. Can't keep ground on Superman at all. After every combo you have to essentially start over every time or risk getting too ballsy and losing a good chunk of life.

 

[NkdSingularity]

The whole WW takes brains argument against Superman doesn't make her any worse. She's definitely a better character than Superman.

IDK why people say about her lack of a full screen projectile, that would be the stupidest thing ever. Fullscreen projectile in SS would mean she'd be the ultimate turtle in the game. She'd be Kenshi with a high hitting shoulder since shield toss is only -2.

Its not like she doesnt already have iadg.

IADG isn't fullscreen either, I'm sure you know that but people might infer it from your closing statement.

 

[SaJa]

The whole WW takes brains argument against Superman doesn't make her any worse. She's definitely a better character than Superman.

IDK why people say about her lack of a full screen projectile, that would be the stupidest thing ever. Fullscreen projectile in SS would mean she'd be the ultimate turtle in the game. She'd be Kenshi with a high hitting shoulder since shield toss is only -2.

Its not like she doesnt already have iadg.

What is WW bad matchups ? Batgirl ?

 

[Groove Heaven]

Supes, Batman, GL, Bladam, KF, Aquaman, WW, Flash (not in that order) are all top-tier and pretty much anyone will agree.

The rest is not agreed upon by the community at large.

 

[STRYKIE]

What is WW bad matchups ? Batgirl ?

I wouldn't say so. 50/50s are just a bad matchup for UK players in general. #Kappa

 

[regulas]

Tier power currently is based over Safeness or Easiness more then anything else. Many characters that are low tier have theoretically better power then Superman, but just require a level of execution that is months away to actually do better.

Superman, Batman, GL are good examples of characters who will eventually fall out of top tier without even needing nerfs... but it will take a long time to get there.

 

[shaowebb]

Honestly someone I have a baaaaaaaaaad feeling will become scary is Zod. That trait coupled with some of his tools will make things so rough and unlike Sinestro its not a charge trait...its a timed one so it will come out. Too early to place him, but he is a suspect top player IMO. Slow projectile plus trait...what do you do? Thank god for trait cooldown and bad wakeups, but the guy builds great meter and if you play defensive, pushblock, and abuse MB f3/b3 stuff to get folks off of you he can setup a mid to full screen game that buys him all the time, damage and meter he needs to become threatening in my eyes.

Too early to tell just yet, but I seriously feel Zod is slept on currently and will have some abusable and nasty shit soon that will shoot him up the ranks in the hands of patient players.

Also Flash is the new Cyrax IMO in that if you dont respect him the guy 87% hits you...

Tier power currently is based over Safeness or Easiness more then anything else. Many characters that are low tier have theoretically better power then Superman, but just require a level of execution that is months away to actually do better. And yes I also play Hawkgirl and believe that and I know she is a good counterpick to him.


Superman, Batman, GL are good examples of characters who will eventually fall out of top tier without even needing nerfs... but it will take a long time to get there.

I'll give you Green Lantern due to mobility, and Batman is high tier, but reliant on trait and punishes so I wont toss that idea as I consistently see him drop out in tourney standings, but there is NO reason Superman will drop without nerfs. NONE. He is that amazing on his frame data, options, control, and damage that there is nothing that will make him drop. No singular trick or series could counteract so many areas of advantageous tools and tech.

 

[SaJa]

Supes, Batman, GL, Bladam, KF, Aquaman, WW, Flash (not in that order) are all top-tier and pretty much anyone will agree.

The rest is not agreed upon by the community at large.

Flash has like 4-5 bad matchups at least. Dunno about batgirl and killer frost but they look to be stronger imo.

Zod is Sinestro tier imo.

Manhunter will be titan tier imo.

 

[MLDoom]

IMO WW has few bad matchups. Only a few characters give her trouble.

 

[Crazykitana]

The whole WW takes brains argument against Superman doesn't make her any worse. She's definitely a better character than Superman.

IDK why people say about her lack of a full screen projectile, that would be the stupidest thing ever. Fullscreen projectile in SS would mean she'd be the ultimate turtle in the game. She'd be Kenshi with a high hitting shoulder since shield toss is only -2.

Its not like she doesnt already have iadg.

WONDER WOMAN having no full screen projectiles and bad zoning , means most characters in this game can hang with her.
im yet to see a post on here saying oh damm the wonder woman match up is really bad for mu character.
wonder woman is great untill you find yourself on the losing side of the life lead vs a player why knows the match and can zone.
superman in my opinion is stronger than wonder woman is right now.
reasons being he has great match ups where he rapes a few characters.
okay he has better zoning for example heat zap and lasers, that build him incredible amount of meter.
upclose hes better than wonder woman because of F23, does more damage an d has a better trait.
you say iadg that move is not full screen and unlesss youre getting the instant version is not worth it.
if it trades with projectiles you lose the trade.
wonder woman has bad match such as Batman, maybe harley. superman from what ive seen has none.

 

[STRYKIE]

but there is NO reason Superman will drop without nerfs. NONE. He is that amazing on his frame data, options, control, and damage that there is nothing that will make him drop. No singular trick or series could counteract so many areas of advantageous tools and tech.

Even though Superman is going to be nerfed anyway, Jax would like a word with you on this idea.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

WONDER WOMAN having no full screen projectiles and bad zoning , means most characters in this game can hang with her.
im yet to see a post on here saying oh damm the wonder woman match up is really bad for mu character.
wonder woman is great untill you find yourself on the losing side of the life lead vs a player why knows the match and can zone.
superman in my opinion is stronger than wonder woman is right now.
reasons being he has great match ups where he rapes a few characters.
okay he has better zoning for example heat zap and lasers, that build him incredible amount of meter.
upclose hes better than wonder woman because of F23, does more damage an d has a better trait.
you say iadg that move is not full screen and unlesss youre getting the instant version is not worth it.
if it trades with projectiles you lose the trade.
wonder woman has bad match such as Batman, maybe harley. superman from what ive seen has none.

You say Superman is better upclose because of F23, but you can literally crouch block EVERYTHING he has.
WW is 5050 town and at advantage after near everything, even her B2 gives her 30% midscreen, so no way in hell is superman better upclose. A solid defense will defend longer against a Superman player than a WW player.

Shield stance is a waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better trait than supermans, LBSH....

I know its difficult to discuss WW, cause I'm positive nobody knows her yet. Especially considering I'm still the only one using her shield stance with purpose.

 

[RavenDSkull]

I have been seeing Doomsday in top tier for a lot of people. Given that the character dropped some tiers before and, AFAIK, nothing drastically changed it's gameplan, what is the reasoning behind it's placement?


Sent from my Mind using my Fingers

 

[insomnia_ftw]

You say Superman is better upclose because of F23, but you can literally crouch block EVERYTHING he has.
WW is 5050 town and at advantage after near everything, even her B2 gives her 30% midscreen, so no way in hell is superman better upclose. A solid defense will defend longer against a Superman player than a WW player.

Shield stance is a waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better trait than supermans, LBSH....

I know its difficult to discuss WW, cause I'm positive nobody knows her yet.

On top of that, WW gets through his zoning pretty easy doesn't she? Just a few air dashes and you're in.

 

[@MylesWright_]

Supes, Batman, GL, Bladam, KF, Aquaman, WW, Flash (not in that order) are all top-tier and pretty much anyone will agree.

The rest is not agreed upon by the community at large.

 

[Son ov Timett]

On top of that, WW gets through his zoning pretty easy doesn't she? Just a few air dashes and you're in.

You can just parry your way in through his zoning as well.

 

[insomnia_ftw]

You can just parry your way in through his zoning as well.

Ha! I forgot she could parry projectiles. In that case.. What Superman zoning?

 

[regulas]

I'll give you Green Lantern due to mobility, and Batman is high tier, but reliant on trait and punishes so I wont toss that idea as I consistently see him drop out in tourney standings, but there is NO reason Superman will drop without nerfs. NONE. He is that amazing on his frame data, options, control, and damage that there is nothing that will make him drop. No singular trick or series could counteract so many areas of advantageous tools and tech.

GL lacks opening options and a lot of his tech is punishable. Batman strings seem great but they have tons of gaps, furthermore a lot of his moves wiff hard if dodged, the better you learn the match-up the easier it is to blow up almost everything he does.

Superman is just a respect character. You have to respect the F2 and like Batman again it takes match-up specific knowledge to beat him, but as KDZ himself has pointed out a huge amount of what Supes does is actually easily countered once you learn the tech.

 

[shaowebb]

GL lacks opening options and a lot of his tech is punishable. Batman strings seem great but they have tons of gaps, furthermore a lot of his moves wiff hard if dodged, the better you learn the match-up the easier it is to blow up almost everything he does.

Superman is just a respect character. You have to respect the F2 and like Batman again it takes match-up specific knowledge to beat him, but as KDZ himself has pointed out a huge amount of what Supes does is actually easily countered once you learn the tech.

You got a lot more to respect there than just F2...enough for me to say that he forces too reactionary a style of gameplay to believe he will drop. He controls your options and puts you on the defensive off of just the threat of several tools he has and guessing the wrong one leads to death. Many is the block I had fail due to a sudden throw or unexpected low scoop. If you derp it out with F23 everytime sure you can block as you say, but guessing which tools he may mix it up with can really screw with you. Learning the matchup specifics can be said for any matchup but when he can flip his gameplan so easily to any other tactic of play and still be at frame/meter/damage advantage in that new tactic its silly to think he will drop from the top spot as folks learn their characters. Folks get better with Superman as well and mix it up more and they ALSO learn the matchups too. New tech for characters only goes unknown for so long and its not exclusive that folks other than Superman players will become aware of it...I'd actually wager Superman players would be the first to spread the word if ANY tech came up against them with matchups.

Superman is top and will stay top. There is no reason to believe otherwise IMO save a nerf.

 

[Fromundaman]

Guys, let's just agree that Joker deserves his own tier at the bottom and call it a day.

 

[regulas]

You got a lot more to respect there than just F2...enough for me to say that he forces too reactionary a style of gameplay to believe he will drop. He controls your options and puts you on the defensive off of just the threat of several tools he has and guessing the wrong one leads to death. Many is the block I had fail due to a sudden throw or unexpected low scoop. If you derp it out with F23 everytime sure you can block as you say, but guessing which tools he may mix it up with can really screw with you. Learning the matchup specifics can be said for any matchup but when he can flip his gameplan so easily to any other tactic of play and still be at frame/meter/damage advantage in that new tactic its silly to think he will drop from the top spot as folks learn their characters. Folks get better with Superman as well and mix it up more and they ALSO learn the matchups too. New tech for characters only goes unknown for so long and its not exclusive that folks other than Superman players will become aware of it...I'd actually wager Superman players would be the first to spread the word if ANY tech came up against them with matchups.

Superman is top and will stay top. There is no reason to believe otherwise IMO save a nerf.

For strings focus on blocking low, his overheads are second hit of EX superpunch, or the third hit of his strings which are very slow.


His lasers you block low and and hit back when the laser touches you, this way it doesn't matter which laser he uses since you start out ducking.

Suddenly his strings and zoning become far less threatening. This is not even looking at interuptable areas, or moves that can be backdashed and punished or so on and so fourth.

 

[Qwark28]

i love how wonderwoman is so unexplored, even among her users that shes not recognized as top 3 matterial.

which matchup does she struggle in? none. foxy needs to yet again open your eyes, just like sonya and KL