what is scorpion.

[quandaghost]

This is a damn sexy thread Quan! props

Thanks man i appreciate that. I just asked somberness about the 3 beating sonya, and Mileena's D4 he said it should work guys. the reason why I really wanted to know this is b/c now we have a weapon to use against low hitbox characters. He did say we would need to execute it 1 frame before they did theirs though so its gonna be tight. Now that has me thinking about using D1 then 3 so that you have a 2 frame gap (D1 is +1 on hit, while 3 is 10 frames, using this will shorten it down to 9 frames. Their d4 is 12 frames.) .

Now how does this help in this match-up? Scorpion can effectively punish them for using this to advance or for using it to make him get off them after a D1. Slips do you think this good or negligible?

 

[Slips]

Oh shit we have the master himself in here! slips can you also test and see if scorpions 3 can beat out Mileena, and Sonya's D4 also anything you could add in here that could help us get our scorpion's to lvl up, or tech that could help us in these match-ups would be cool man

The problem is distance. After d1 your standing 3 will not be in range so their d4 will punish your whiffed 3. On top of that, the 3 is very easily crossed over for a full punish. The best thing after d1 is d4. Since you are +1 and Scorp's d4 is also 12 frames, your d4 will beat out theirs.

 

[Dizzy]

A miserable, little pile of secrets.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Character specific Tech and Gimmicks. *by no means should you use the gimmick over the void, but its something that can be used. This is something that your opponent could simply back roll away from, but then again you could simply hellfire the roll.
Johnny Cage:
Sweep:All of johnny cage's wake-ups can be avoided by sweeping. You get a full punish into vortex, off of this and this is good for scorpion b/c its hard for him to start up in this match-up.
1,1 xx spear, njp, B2, jik, xx teleport, 3, xx teleport, teleport: This is a gimmick. This is a safe set-up used to bait a character into doing an unsafe wakeup attack or, punishing some with a B2. This works on Cage b/c his shadow kick is a full punish on block. His flash kick can be baited and punished on block.

Sonya Blade:
3: The reason why I posted 3 is b/c 3,3 will stuff any wake-up attack that isn't EX Kartwheele. This is something i can see as being a powerful tool or asset. This match-up is bad. No doubt. Scorpion lacks a good wake-up attack to make her afraid of pressuring him on wake-up. You may say well takedown is good and its safe, the problem is this is easily baited, and punished cause its horrible on whiff. She also doesn't lose anything for taking it. This should be used as a check when she doesn't have meter. Sonya has no reason at all to not use ex kartwheele on wake-up so this is only as powerful as long as you can keep her breaking combos, and conserving meter. Try sweeping her first, she has to respect a 3,3,4 after a sweep. 3 can also stuff Sonya's and Mileena's D4 I have dont this a couple of times, but I'm trying to see how use full this is.

Sonya Blake has confirmed that she can be punished on the dive kick. I don't think scorpion has a normal fast enough to punish it though, but this is worth while to try.

Sub-Zero:
1,1 xx spear, njp, B2, jik, xx teleport, 3, xx teleport, teleport: This is once again A GIMMICK. This a powerful gimmick on knockdown on sub-zero though. Sub-Zero cannot puish you, he cannot ice clone he has to respect this. If he decides to do a wake-up attack he WILL BE PUNISHED. If he ice clones spear him on reaction. If he slides that is a full punish.

Cyber Sub-Zero:
1,1 xx spear, njp, B2, jik, xx teleport, 3, xx teleport, teleport: A gimmick that works the same way it works for his human counter-part.

Scorpion loses to sonya and cage because of how they can pretty much control the flow of the match with superior range and block pressure. While it's useful information to know that scorpions 3 and sweep win vs wake up attacks it's not what the problem is in those match ups and isn't going to help scorpion that much.

Regardless of how well 33 is used it's not that good compared to what other characters have. The fact that it's his only decent mid hitting string means it should be used often by scorpion players but it has issues. The main issue imo is that 33 doesn't have good range at all. One of scorpions main problems is his lack of a good normal string or even single move that hits mid and has good range/moves him forward. Any character with a good low move (for instance sonya's d+4 and a ton of other characters d+3's and 4's) can pressure the shit out of scorpion from up close. Wtf is he going to do? 1, whiffs, 2 whiffs, 33 is out ranged by pretty much all good d+4's, b2 is too slow, f4 is too slow, d+1 works but doesn't stop anything, d+3 is -7 on hit lol and spear is too high. Pretty much the only option you have is to use meter and ex take down just to stop pressure in some cases you can use ex spear.. His d+4 is not good enough in those situations either because most other characters seem to have more range and better advantage than him.

 

[SunnyD]

What is Scorp?

Baby dont void me

dont void me

no more

 

[Eddy Wang]

Scorpion surely need a lot of calm and attention to what ever you do, it requires a high read
This is how my scorpion plays

I still don't have much to show in this video, so i will post something good by sunday or monday.

When i use scorp, after i use 111 and step a bit back after i use it, or i go for the d1 and right away i dash back, to keep a distance between me and them
D1 really sucks, and provoke opponents to poke back, so 111 doesn't give much advantage on block, but they'll eventually try to poke you out to prevent your next poke to or string to be used.

When this happens is option select for me.
b2 or hellfire to punish them.

Once they start to respect 111 and decides to jump, scorps AA wins

 

[quandaghost]

Cage, and Sonya do dominate the the flow those fights. They have better footsies, they even have better resets. So as a player with that in mind you should be looking for ways that help you to stop, or get around these. Sonya is an absolute nightmare for me. That is the character that I lose to the most. Its the character Clint the Beast counter-picked me with at a tournament in January. I refuse to let this continue though. I don't think there isn't a way to disassemble what these characters are doing, and assembling an offense based on this. Sonya in my mind has to be the worst matchu-up scorpion can have. @Riu_48 list it as a 6-4 I think it's a 7-3. That being said.. "Optimism" is my weapon of choice right now. Hopefully when I attend Rese on the 12th and Death arrives he can help me with this match-up and just things in general. I wish he could come play casuals since he lives only an hour a away.

 

[quandaghost]

Cage, and Sonya do dominate the the flow those fights. They have better footsies, they even have better resets. So as a player with that in mind you should be looking for ways that help you to stop, or get around these. Sonya is an absolute nightmare for me. That is the character that I lose to the most. Its the character Clint the Beast counter-picked me with at a tournament in January. I refuse to let this continue though. I don't think there isn't a way to disassemble what these characters are doing, and assembling an offense based on this. Sonya in my mind has to be the worst matchu-up scorpion can have. @Riu_48 list it as a 6-4 I think it's a 7-3. That being said.. "Optimism" is my weapon of choice right now. Hopefully when I attend Rese on the 12th and Death arrives he can help me with this match-up and just things in general. I wish he could come play casuals since he lives only an hour a away.

 

[Saint]

you lost me at 'scorpion is all about vortex'

 

[Scoot Magee]

Cage, and Sonya do dominate the the flow those fights. They have better footsies, they even have better resets. So as a player with that in mind you should be looking for ways that help you to stop, or get around these. Sonya is an absolute nightmare for me. That is the character that I lose to the most. Its the character Clint the Beast counter-picked me with at a tournament in January. I refuse to let this continue though. I don't think there isn't a way to disassemble what these characters are doing, and assembling an offense based on this. Sonya in my mind has to be the worst matchu-up scorpion can have. @Riu_48 list it as a 6-4 I think it's a 7-3. That being said.. "Optimism" is my weapon of choice right now. Hopefully when I attend Rese on the 12th and Death arrives he can help me with this match-up and just things in general. I wish he could come play casuals since he lives only an hour a away.

IMO it's actually 8-2 in sonya's favor. It's pretty cut and dry why it's a bad match for scorpion. Sonya will destroy scorpion once she even manages to get you to block a d+4. That just means she is now inside pressuring you, gaining meter and doing chip. She will stay on top of scorpion until he takes a huge risk. IMO your best bet is save meter, get hit on purpose then break to get her off you. Don't ask me how to build meter against her besides taking damage though.

Scorpions problems (best string is high, no range on 33 and generally no footsies) are amplified against a character like sonya. Her d4 has massive range and grants free pressure, poking out with d1 just stuns her for a second if you were right but if you were wrong you eat a full combo.

There's really no way around this bitch with scorpion. Run away and do hellfire as much as you can before she gets close to you. Maybe land an AA spear if she jumps (she has no reason to jump) then vortex. Do not go for his safe options, 50/50 that bitch the entire time as much as you can.

 

[Scoot Magee]

you lost me at 'scorpion is all about vortex'

In some match ups this is the exact case.

 

[quandaghost]

IMO it's actually 8-2 in sonya's favor. It's pretty cut and dry why it's a bad match for scorpion. Sonya will destroy scorpion once she even manages to get you to block a d+4. That just means she is now inside pressuring you, gaining meter and doing chip. She will stay on top of scorpion until he takes a huge risk. IMO your best bet is save meter, get hit on purpose then break to get her off you. Don't ask me how to build meter against her besides taking damage though.

Scorpions problems (best string is high, no range on 33 and generally no footsies) are amplified against a character like sonya. Her d4 has massive range and grants free pressure, poking out with d1 just stuns her for a second if you were right but if you were wrong you eat a full combo.

There's really no way around this bitch with scorpion. Run away and do hellfire as much as you can before she gets close to you. Maybe land an AA spear if she jumps (she has no reason to jump) then vortex. Do not go for his safe options, 50/50 that bitch the entire time as much as you can.

Scoot serious question. I value your opinion they are valid statements, but why do you show up on everything scorpion only to put the character down rather than try to innovate the character in someway shape or form, even if its not there. Also I would rather get my void started before I got my vortex. I would rather use a 38% punish into a mix-up you can fuzzy guard. Seven scorpion is all about his vortex. Scorpion needs it. If he is to win you have to vortex. Thing about it is though is that you have to know how to use it, apply it, and work your game around it. My scorpion usually will do 38% voids, into vortex, into something safe. If you are gonna play Scorpion you gotta learn how to circumvent all of this stuff. cause everything he does goes right back into the vortex one way or another.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Scoot serious question. I value your opinion they are valid statements, but why do you show up on everything scorpion only to put the character down rather than try to innovate the character in someway shape or form, even if its not there. Also I would rather get my void started before I got my vortex. I would rather use a 38% punish into a mix-up you can fuzzy guard. Seven scorpion is all about his vortex. Scorpion needs it. If he is to win you have to vortex. Thing about it is though is that you have to know how to use it, apply it, and work your game around it. My scorpion usually will do 38% voids, into vortex, into something safe. If you are gonna play Scorpion you gotta learn how to circumvent all of this stuff. cause everything he does goes right back into the vortex one way or another.

I'm not trying to put the character down I'm just being realistic. The character has been explored for a while now and as time goes on he's only gotten worse as the game evolved. He was bad when the game first came out, he got some buffs that helped him but still struggled. As other characters in the game evolved scorpion pretty much got worse. I've spent a lot of time and went through an endless amount of ideas against good competition. I really want the character to be good but he has some match ups that are just extremely bad and there's no way around it. I actually do give suggestions on what I think the best way to fight a character is considering the experience I've had. It's not like I'm just saying oh scorpion gets raped and not giving an explanation why, I clearly explain why he loses and mention what he can do to IMO increase his odds of winning

About the void, I just pretty much consider it part of the vortex so when I say vortex it's included. The void does really help capitalize off of a spear/b2 and ect.

I'm all for people exploring all his options and looking for the best chance to win. I was just commenting that their really isn't a great way to fight sonya. She can play a braindead game against scorpion and still win, it's that bad of a match for scorpion (worse than cage imo). Like I said before, scorpions problems are pretty obvious and a lot of characters can exploit them.

Edit

Also one thing about the void. It does less damage if you want to keep it ambiguous. If you use b2 for the extra damage you lose the overhead option to go into another combo. I never use b2 in void set ups just so the other player knows that my overhead option will do big damage.

 

[quandaghost]

Safe jumps
Kenshi: If you some how get the mythical knockdown on Kenshi you can dash(short dash) and jump over his wake-ups ALL OF THEM. For a free jip, into vortex. This could dramatically effect the way Kenshi has to approach scorpion after a knock down.

B4: one short dash and jump should totally avoid every wake-up he has for a free jump in punch into vortex this will hit even if he rolls

B2: if you hit this on kenshi, and for odd reason you don't connect a spear, or do something 1 full dash, and a short dash jump will avoid every wake-up he has for a free punish

1,1~spear~, njp,B2, Jik, ~teleport~, 1,1~ spear: This works just like the B2 set-up this will do 35%, and punish for another 35%.

Basically any combo that you can end in spear can use this can be

Johnny Cage: If you knock johnny down scorpion can avoid everyone of his wake-ups with a B4 you can't punish him with this but you can get out of his pressure and start zoning him again, I did find that you could spear the flash kick if you correct the input.

Safe Dashes

Jax: takedown close range will beat ALL of jax's wake-ups scorpion will either take him down, or or go underneath jax safely.
B4 wait for the him to do a wake-up attack and takedown up close you will either punish him for it or go underneath him.

any spear combo you can use the safely dash and do takedown to avoid him. you cannot be punished.

Sub-zero: safe jump ins are possible and really help this match up. Scorpion can after a knockdown from any non voided or vortex combo (full) dash (short) dash jump over all of his ice clones if he rolls if he is just getting up then a regular full dash will suffice.
Pig Of The Hut, UsedForGlue, CURBOLICOUS could at I get your opinion on these?

 

[Scoot Magee]

Just a note, kenshi can reverse his wake up input to beat crossup attempts. Does the short dash create an angle that kenshis wake up wont hit u if he reverses the input?

 

[Big Pampering]

people saying you dont have to use the vortex with scorpion, thats true. but how is he a threat at all if he doesnt use the vortex? also without the vortex he is the last character on the roster you should play imo next to the other lower tiers.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

quandaghost

All good info but kenshi will read before he wakes up

The MU is a true 5-5 IMO

 

[MKF30]

Yeah, I've noticed Scorp players use him totally differently and that to me makes him really unique as oppose to some other characters *cough KL*cough* where everyone who uses him is so generic and typical, but someone like Scorpion is just awesome, unique and you can really play any style with him I think. I use him as one of my mains and I must say, I enjoy zoning with him, baiting people to jump into spears with hellfires to keep them honest.

While I do use his reset, I don't depend on it..he has some nice combos that do 40% damage easily, I have one of my favs that does 43% on one bar, so worth it. Love the two in ones with his 4 kicks into take down tactics, and good mix ups. He can also throw easily after a blocked 1, 1. He has so many tools that are hardly used. A typical scorpion will often telport, the really good ones do it wisely I've noticed.