Question - Lackey What "is" Lackey?

[joeldm]

Should've just made it a 2 bar launcher like they did with other characters.

No, he has poor meter builder

 

[CrazyFingers]

No, he has poor meter builder

It's still better than no armor at all.

 

[Gengar]

Well YOU said throw. So yes in fact you were talking about 'throw', that's why I mentioned it.

Just tested it and yes you are right about the corner pushback, I always thought it was just outside grabs range, looks that way.

I quoted your post specifically mentioning the command grab. No one was talking about his normal throw. You saw the word throw (which all command grabs are considered 'throws') and clinged to his normal throw, which no one was talking about. My bad for not using the exactly correct terms, didnt think it would cause such confusion.

command grab in the corner is decent, whether done raw or to end a combo it still leaves you at that same range where you get to put the pressure on between throwing again or countering their attempt to avoid the throw

 

[joeldm]

It's still better than no armor at all.

It would still be bad

 

[Jaku2011]

It would still be bad

They're not gonna give him a 1 bar armored launcher back man and come on even if it's 2 bars to launch you honestly wouldn't take a 1 bar get off me move?

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

They're not gonna give him a 1 bar armored launcher back man and come on even if it's 2 bars to launch you honestly wouldn't take a 1 bar get off me move?

He already has that with double boulder roll tho.

Idk if the two bar launch mechanic would work with Torryuken. Currently the window between the first and second hit is small, they would have to increase that or the hit advantage on the first hit, which may turn in to a 1 bar launcher in the corner.

 

[dennycascade]

I would like it if EX torryuken would be like a double armored 15% HKD that leaves torr right in front of you with hit advantage, or can be meterburned (only on hit) for the second hit to pop up for a combo. They would have to make meterless torryuken also possible to meterburn so he could still confirm off his b121. EX roll is a good reversal but it allows the opponent to tech roll away and it's extremely hard for torr to chase them down. Even with this change his neutral problem would still be there. The most godlike buff ever imo would be if they switched the lackey command grab with the Ferra-less throw which leaves you very close to torr on hit. His grappling game would finally be viable midscreen

 

[Rabbit]

i can't believe the people in here trying to sell lackey as a viable character in any way.
the only character where the variationless version is better than one of the variations lol.

even the most average of zoning tools makes starting anything a pain in the ass. have fun letting your opponent build breaker with nothing to respect as you are getting in.

doing tick throws is basically throwing the game away unless you happen to have someone cornered and his corner carry combos are garbage.

meter building sucks thanks to no ferra and no meterless specials that are safe to cancel into from strings or whiff full screen.

mixups are predictable no matter how creative you want to be thanks to no ferra and overheads having windup animations that are easy to spot.

anti-airs are below average, anti-crossups are bad.

nothing to respect from this character besides d1

if you want damage and mindgames use ruthless
if you want counterzoning and tick throws that actually put you in a good position use vicious
lackey is abysmal

 

[Jaku2011]

He already has that with double boulder roll tho.

Idk if the two bar launch mechanic would work with Torryuken. Currently the window between the first and second hit is small, they would have to increase that or the hit advantage on the first hit, which may turn in to a 1 bar launcher in the corner.

Torryuken is a way better move then Boulder roll

 

[joeldm]

I would like it if EX torryuken would be like a double armored 15% HKD that leaves torr right in front of you with hit advantage, or can be meterburned (only on hit) for the second hit to pop up for a combo. They would have to make meterless torryuken also possible to meterburn so he could still confirm off his b121. EX roll is a good reversal but it allows the opponent to tech roll away and it's extremely hard for torr to chase them down. Even with this change his neutral problem would still be there. The most godlike buff ever imo would be if they switched the lackey command grab with the Ferra-less throw which leaves you very close to torr on hit. His grappling game would finally be viable midscreen

And if he could recover faster after the command grab or your dash stay faster. He could approach faster.

 

[Skullcalibur]

They should've made him like doomsday, whole lotta plus frames, mixups, armor, mobility, at the cost of very low but consistent damage

 

[MK Led]

They should've made him like doomsday, whole lotta plus frames, mixups, armor, mobility, at the cost of very low but consistent damage

That would've been cool actually, considering they get high damage in their other two variations (especially ruthless, and especially since they both got EX ferra tosses). But ah well, c'est la vie.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

Lackey's never been competitive, kinda sad. I basically agree that in this meta more than ever, he for the most part must be played using vortexes and oki. If you don't do that, he's kinda trash. In any case he's still complete trash in a number of matchups, having few/no really good matchups himself.

A mechanic which would actually make sense is for Lackey to have Pain & Gain or some similar buff to cancel into e.g. shades of Flame Fist/Fistibuffs and perhaps something like making his hurtbox projectile invincible during Roll. That would be so much fun and he would feel like a real pressure character, with zoners having to actually stop spamming shit if they can be full combo punished by Roll.

If Lackey is going to be such a slow, big ass gorilla, he must fucking truck when he gets in close, but he struggles to even open people up in neutral. Why can't his command grab just be faster and do more damage like Zangief? And maybe stop throwing the opponent fullscreen like we've been complaining about since launch. This game has side-switching teleports, armor and corner escapes--the opponent should have to play Lackey's game after a command grab.

I had a little hope for Lackey as I was reading the patch notes. But by this point it's clear he truly is garbage. I have faith in you NRS #SaveLackey