Question What does this character need?

[salvificblood]

Remember, guys, this a thread for reasonable buffs not crap like being able to cancel slide or giving him an ice parry.

 

[Z-911-Z]

I think ex clone being able to absorb armor moves would be cool.

 

[Bidu]

If it's "shredder" Sub-Zero. I'm dropping him.

Hate that costume. lmao

How can you hate it?

 

[salvificblood]

I think ex clone being able to absorb armor moves would be cool.

I cansee whypeople suggest this but I honestly don't see how it would help him practically. Your opponent can spot the ex clone so easily and you'd end up not wasting meter on it because it wouldn't work. I'd rather block an armoured move than waste meter on an ex clone that my opponent will just let the timer run out on every time.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

You'd be amazed at how many people don't really pay attention to which clone is out. Think of it as... at the end of the round. I can REALLY protect my life lead. It is a specialized tool... but it would do its job VERY well. I don't know ANYONE who uses the exClone... as it only stays out for just a tab bit longer with not added benefit. I can't think of any other exMoves off the top of my head thats properties don't change a bit.

 

[Dark_Rob]

Remember, guys, this a thread for reasonable buffs not crap like being able to cancel slide or giving him an ice parry.

Since none of this is gonna happen anyway(trust me on this) we may as well let them go nuts with it. If nothing else, its entertaining.

 

[Panque]

Hey Panque! Nice Jax, bro. It's your new main? lol!

Lol, just saw this, you should have tagged me or something...
I won't main jax until I feel I have one the best jax among the brazilian online players and until I can get his corner combo as consistently as I want to. But yeah, im putting a lot of effort in him, and I hope I can main him someday.

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OT: I'm tired of talking about what he needs because there will always be a jester that doesn't knows shit about SZ telling me he is completely fine. Makes me want to kick a baby.

 

[salvificblood]

Lol, just saw this, you should have tagged me or something...
I won't main jax until I feel I have one the best jax among the brazilian online players and until I can get his corner combo as consistently as I want to. But yeah, im putting a lot of effort in him, and I hope I can main him someday.

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OT: I'm tired of talking about what he needs because there will always be a jester that doesn't knows shit about SZ telling me he is completely fine. Makes me want to kick a baby.

Yeah, I am concentrating on Kitana now with Sub as my favoured secondary. So it's whatever. NRS can do as they please so long as they don't go and nerf my Kitana! *Salt*.

 

[YOMI DJT]

The best buffs ive seen so far is ex freezeball have armor very reasonable to me because of zoners like noob if that was possible I think Sub would have no bad matchups scorpion has armor on spear why not sub with armor on ex ice puddle is useless to me imo removing it would be a great idea I think that the enhanced slide should have more damage without the extra hit that put opponent on other side The x ray armor definitely needs to be changed you can jp it on startup sometimes thats ridiculous He needs that shredder costume its cool and mk3 costume with mask unmasked looks stupid imo mk4 costume my avatars costume make it easier to do the combo 2,1,2,freezball, jk 2,2 slide

 

[GNG Iniquity]

THIS THREAD IS NOW IMAGES OF CATS LICKING SNOWCONES

 

[Enenra]

As annoying as these threads are, I get them. NRS' treatment of Sub Zero irritates the hell out of me because he would be so easy to make top ten. His glaring and daunting weaknesses as a character are the low damage out put, 2 whiffing, and a strong weakness to zoners. Those both are easy fixes, while still keeping him balanced. I have hope MKKE will have fixes. I'm almost positive.

 

[greeneless]

Personally I hate it when characters can get full combos off of armor, I really don't think that was the point of armor... but if kabal/scorpion/rain/skarlet/raiden can do it why not sub. *shrug*

Instead of removing ice puddle they should let him be able to cancel out of it like jax's ground pound.

 

[STRYKIE]

I was gonna suggest a cancellable string that starts low, but Imho, all he needs is a major cutdown on the ice puddle start-up frames, he should dispense the ice immediately after the input, MK2/UMK3 style. That way, he'd have all his mixup options covered.

And lol at the parry and damage buff requests, I've said this time and time again, that's what Cyber Sub is for. Stop trying to sit behind clones and trade projectiles mid-screen all day, that shit got exposed after Power Up 2011.

lies. it is >>>>>>>> than any of these outfits.

That's the worst costume he's ever had other than the unmasked MK3 costume..

Fun fact: Sub actually WAS bottom 5 back when he had that costume.
And almost everyone in MK3 were makeshift replacements since Daniel Pesina who did sprite capture for Johnny Cage + all ninjas got fired. Otherwise unmasked Sub wouldn't even exist, lol.

Edit: To be fair, is there even any point in exClone being there if it doesn't absorb armored moves? It stays up a little bit longer, whoopdee fuck..

 

[deathgun]

As annoying as these threads are, I get them. NRS' treatment of Sub Zero irritates the hell out of me because he would be so easy to make top ten. His glaring and daunting weaknesses as a character are the low damage out put, 2 whiffing, and a strong weakness to zoners. Those both are easy fixes, while still keeping him balanced. I have hope MKKE will have fixes. I'm almost positive.

the point isnt to make him top 10, top20 or top100, the point is to make him balanced.

A lot of people in this topic are suggesting damage increasements, that would to make him better against everyone, the points is that he doesnt need to get better against everyone, that will make SZ too strong against certain chars.

 

[Enenra]

the point isnt to make him top 10, top20 or top100, the point is to make him balanced.

A lot of people in this topic are suggesting damage increasements, that would to make him better against everyone, the points is that he doesnt need to get better against everyone, that will make SZ too strong against certain chars.

Fuck you. I want him to compete. That, IMO, is balanced. He needs to have the ABILITY to take tournaments. Right now he has the ability to be a free way out of pools.

 

[STB Bodam]

His reset back...

 

[deathgun]

Fuck you. I want him to compete. That, IMO, is balanced. He needs to have the ABILITY to take tournaments. Right now he has the ability to be a free way out of pools.

Fine, you want him to be competitive, if hes going to be op or not its not important or no. Thats way dufferent from someone balanced. Balance = equality here, and thats not what youre looking for.

By the way, dont even waste your time expecting that IF NRS is going to touch the game again they are going to make SZ or anyone else competitive at the cost of the overall balance of the game. They can end up doing that, but it wont be on purpose, it will be pure lack of skill to balance the game.

 

[Enenra]

Fine, you want him to be competitive, if hes going to be op or not its not important or no. Thats way dufferent from someone balanced. Balance = equality here, and thats not what youre looking for.

By the way, dont even waste your time expecting that IF NRS is going to touch the game again they are going to make SZ or anyone else competitive at the cost of the overall balance of the game. They can end up doing that, but it wont be on purpose, it will be pure lack of skill to balance the game.

Sub Zero isn't going to break the balance of this game. Balance is broken by death kombos, superior mobility, armor, etc. I want Sub Zero to be able to compete again, as it would be so easy to make him a top 10 kharacter.

 

[Death]

I cant stress it enough. Make 21 hit all opponents crouching and neutral crouching and 1 hit of armor on ex freeze. Similar to scorpions ex spear. Those two changes could make him around top 10 and their fair buffs. But i think NRS is done with sub. Sigh

 

[iKritikal]

Armour Ex freeze
2-1 hits all characters
F4 faster start up
Freeze does chip

 

[Panque]

Paulo said on the latest VSM stream that Sub-Zero's 2 whiffing isn't a problem because he isn't meant to pressure, that he should be behind a clone spamming ice blasts. Also he said that we should buff our characters by being better players and making the best reads...
I don't have many hopes for buffs or fixes now tbh... I don't think NRS knows wth they are doing. All the indirect nerfs that hit sub pretty hard gives me the impression that they just can't look at the big picture.

 

[Fatality_check]

I like to use the full 212 in the corner to pop out an ice clone. The clone comes out really close. You cant do that with b12, 21, or 22. Both 214 and b121 can be poked out of. That only leaves 224 midscreen, which is what i used to use. But 224 doesnt work for the corner either. So only by getting that special knockdown after 222, can you get a close ice clone on the opponent. Or jumping, but i dont like to do that, i find invincibility frames just rips through the ice clone and i get combo'd to death.

214 can be poked out of? Never knew this.

For me, mainly - 21 to hit crouch etc and maybe his dash to be better...or dashing in general. Dashing is shit. Anyway, yeah...i'd be fairly happy with that. Other stuff like ex clone to take armor and freeze to do damage/chip sounds ok.

 

[salvificblood]

Paulo said on the latest VSM stream that Sub-Zero's 2 whiffing isn't a problem because he isn't meant to pressure, that he should be behind a clone spamming ice blasts. Also he said that we should buff our characters by being better players and making the best reads...
I don't have many hopes for buffs or fixes now tbh... I don't think NRS knows wth they are doing. All the indirect nerfs that hit sub pretty hard gives me the impression that they just can't look at the big picture.

I think he was trolling when he said that. I did try to explain why that sort of strategy isn't possible with Sub-zero just in case he wasn't trolling.

While we're all resigned to the fact he won't be fixed, I think it's worth pointing this stuff out now so that we've given our favourite character the best fighting chance possible. I'd rather that than lie and say "he's fine" out of character pride. If NRS is aware but can't do anything about the situation, fair enough, but it never hurts to ask.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Standing 2 hits mid.
Slide completely high crushes projectiles.
When Ice Beam connects on someone when they're in the air, they're frozen one second longer so you can punish better.

 

[salvificblood]

I am unsure about the ex freeze and what should be done with it. the problem I have with it is that you can't get a combo off it if you hit somebody in the air from any distance at all. If you give it armour, any time Sub has meter, he's going to be completely unzonable. I am not convinced that is what the character needs. I just think he needs to hit harder when he does get in, so: freeze scaling removed (it doesn't make himCyber Sub-Zero because Sub has terrible mobility which Cyber Sub categorically does not), standing 2 not whiffing on the really low hitbox characters and let Sub slide again after the ex slide (I like dave's suggestion for this). Now you have a way in and a way to sustain pressure with 21, 22, etc, and you hit like more of a tank, but you are not completely unzonable whenever you have meter.

I don't mind Sub having some bad matchups against IAF characters such as: Kitana, Mileena and Kabal. No problem, he can still be viable then, evenwith the Kung lao matchup the way it is, you just have to have a secondary to cover bad matchups like most characters in this game.