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General/Other - Kenshi What do you guys think about the fact that 114 can't be cancelled anymore?

Shark Tank

I don't actually play these games
He doesn't need an overhead starter...

Look guys, I'm not anti-downplay, but can all you buff requesting sons of sheep ask for something NOT related to getting a 50/50 or more damage off a 50/50? WE DON'T NEED MORE 50/50s, we need 50/50 normalization if anything.
 

MrProfDrPepper

NRS, Guilty Gear, and KI, the holy trinity
It's nice to have some hell unleashed in the Kenshi thread now and then xD

Now...


I'm actually really confused with all of the "he's good now!" reactions.

I think these changes do nothing to address his real problems.

Kenshi wasn't bad because his bf3 was unsafe. That was just the icing on the cake.

He was bad because:

His punishes are garbage. 1 frame faster on D1 isn't going to change that. 114 being 1 frame faster is also meaningless, because they've removed the ability to cancel in to RK, so you can't even use this as a punish anymore. The only thing this change did, was allow him to get out of Raiden's F12 block infinite.

Easier to juggle after Rising Sword? Yeah right. The most important combo by FAR is B3 DB1 D1 EXDB4, and that combo is STILL insanely difficult. If you manage to hit someone with it, and you miss that link, you just wasted 1 bar of meter, and have to eat a full punish combo. If I block the B3, you also eat a full punish combo. NOTHING has changed here. This variation is incredibly risky, meter dependent, and execution heavy.

BF3 in Possessed has been reduced from -33 to -23? LOL are you kidding me? So it went from being hilariously unsafe, to laughably unsafe. Awesome!

His #1 issue in Balanced and Possessed is that he has NO OVERHEAD starter. This has not been addressed.

Just because he can spam BF3 in Balanced, does not mean he's going to be able to zone. It's crouchable, and it's still slow compared to Kano's knives and Quan's stuff.

One armor and I'm in. One crouched BF3 and I'm in.

Worst case scenario, I run and block, take a bit of chip damage, maybe an overhead that leads to nothing. But eventually, I'm going to be in your face, and since Kenshi cannot pressure me with an overhead starter, I have nothing to fear except his EX RK.

His zoning is still sub par. His offense is still non-existent. His punishes are still garbage. Possessed/Kenjutsu are still insanely meter dependent.

Also his blade reflect has lost a lot of viability with only gaining 5% on ex, and not being able to reflect/absorb every projectile in game.
now.... as a balanced kenshi main, i can tell you right now, he DOES NOT need an over head starter, cybernetic kano has not overhead starter and you know what? he is a damn good character. also his punishes are now better, and they did not lower his stuff by one frame, they lowered it by 2 and 3 believe it or not, those few frames make a world of difference, his pokes are now really fast and really good, his telefury being -9 on block is actually massive, yes you can neutral duck it but it is still one of his most usefull zoning tools since his zoning is heavily reliant on chip and keeping you the fuck out and by the way, now if you space his telepush correctly you CANNOT PUNISH IT it is amazing, he is once again the inpenetrable fortress he once was. he needs no more buffs. he is fine now, although i have a feeling he will get some nerfs from all the people bitching that they cant get in.
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
It's nice to have some hell unleashed in the Kenshi thread now and then xD

Now...


I'm actually really confused with all of the "he's good now!" reactions.

I think these changes do nothing to address his real problems.

Kenshi wasn't bad because his bf3 was unsafe. That was just the icing on the cake.

He was bad because:

His punishes are garbage. 1 frame faster on D1 isn't going to change that. 114 being 1 frame faster is also meaningless, because they've removed the ability to cancel in to RK, so you can't even use this as a punish anymore. The only thing this change did, was allow him to get out of Raiden's F12 block infinite.

Easier to juggle after Rising Sword? Yeah right. The most important combo by FAR is B3 DB1 D1 EXDB4, and that combo is STILL insanely difficult. If you manage to hit someone with it, and you miss that link, you just wasted 1 bar of meter, and have to eat a full punish combo. If I block the B3, you also eat a full punish combo. NOTHING has changed here. This variation is incredibly risky, meter dependent, and execution heavy.

BF3 in Possessed has been reduced from -33 to -23? LOL are you kidding me? So it went from being hilariously unsafe, to laughably unsafe. Awesome!

His #1 issue in Balanced and Possessed is that he has NO OVERHEAD starter. This has not been addressed.

Just because he can spam BF3 in Balanced, does not mean he's going to be able to zone. It's crouchable, and it's still slow compared to Kano's knives and Quan's stuff.

One armor and I'm in. One crouched BF3 and I'm in.

Worst case scenario, I run and block, take a bit of chip damage, maybe an overhead that leads to nothing. But eventually, I'm going to be in your face, and since Kenshi cannot pressure me with an overhead starter, I have nothing to fear except his EX RK.

His zoning is still sub par. His offense is still non-existent. His punishes are still garbage. Possessed/Kenjutsu are still insanely meter dependent.

Also his blade reflect has lost a lot of viability with only gaining 5% on ex, and not being able to reflect/absorb every projectile in game.
1) having an 8 frame down poke and a 9 frame punish are huge and give you more defensive options when under pressure besides armor (also getting out of a block infinite is a pretty big deal)
2) you can still combo off 114 with a run or you can just hit confirm 111
3) just because a variation is hard doesn't mean it's bad.
4) in Possessed his pillars became -6 giving you a safe zoning tool and launcher and bf3 is not used the same as balenced and therfore is unsafe (and who cares when you have pillars)
5) bf3 being -9 means that he isn't getting punished full screen. It's also better for conditioning allowing to run up and throw or go low or jump in.
6) not everyone needs a 50/50

I'm sorry but 114 doesn't hold a candle to all the buffs he got
 

Leito360

Noob
This is so much fun!! xDDDDD
I had the chance to read very consistent opinions and laugh my ass off with all the memes xD
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Premium Supporter
It's nice to have some hell unleashed in the Kenshi thread now and then xD

Now...


I'm actually really confused with all of the "he's good now!" reactions.

I think these changes do nothing to address his real problems.

Kenshi wasn't bad because his bf3 was unsafe. That was just the icing on the cake.

He was bad because:

His punishes are garbage. 1 frame faster on D1 isn't going to change that. 114 being 1 frame faster is also meaningless, because they've removed the ability to cancel in to RK, so you can't even use this as a punish anymore. The only thing this change did, was allow him to get out of Raiden's F12 block infinite.

Easier to juggle after Rising Sword? Yeah right. The most important combo by FAR is B3 DB1 D1 EXDB4, and that combo is STILL insanely difficult. If you manage to hit someone with it, and you miss that link, you just wasted 1 bar of meter, and have to eat a full punish combo. If I block the B3, you also eat a full punish combo. NOTHING has changed here. This variation is incredibly risky, meter dependent, and execution heavy.

BF3 in Possessed has been reduced from -33 to -23? LOL are you kidding me? So it went from being hilariously unsafe, to laughably unsafe. Awesome!

His #1 issue in Balanced and Possessed is that he has NO OVERHEAD starter. This has not been addressed.

Just because he can spam BF3 in Balanced, does not mean he's going to be able to zone. It's crouchable, and it's still slow compared to Kano's knives and Quan's stuff.

One armor and I'm in. One crouched BF3 and I'm in.

Worst case scenario, I run and block, take a bit of chip damage, maybe an overhead that leads to nothing. But eventually, I'm going to be in your face, and since Kenshi cannot pressure me with an overhead starter, I have nothing to fear except his EX RK.

His zoning is still sub par. His offense is still non-existent. His punishes are still garbage. Possessed/Kenjutsu are still insanely meter dependent.

Also his blade reflect has lost a lot of viability with only gaining 5% on ex, and not being able to reflect/absorb every projectile in game.

Kenshi has good meterless damage, so his punishes arent bad.
A faster D1 will help in some matches, there's no doubt in that.

Why does a zoner deserve to have both an overhead and a low option?
If thats the case, then a character like Kung Lao needs a low starter. But it's not gonna happen and it's not neccessary.


BF3 being -9 in balanced is good for him, that means he can enforce his overhead slashes and shoulder game when the opponent respects his TF game by neutral ducking, it's not about having 1 move to cover all bases (cough MK9 BF2 cough) it's about using various moves complementary to one another.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Premium Supporter
I have started playing Kenjutsu Kenshi again. His zoning is excellent now, you only need to be careful against characters with tp and even then its not a big deal if you play patiently. His d1 is 8f and its SAFE with incredible range, followed by a 50/50 mix up on hit. His damage is excellent, his walk speed is excellent. He can check you very easily now, because he can finally ZONE and he can counter rushdown characters since his d1 and his s1 are faster now.

All i have to say is, fuck uncancelable 114. So what?

Same goes with Possessed. Having a full screen low safe projectile which can also launch if you use meter is godlike. Plus a solid 50/50 game as well. So what if the OH does not launch? No big deal. You condition them with the OH and bam, once in a while you throw the ex low projectile and gg.

Dunno about Balanced, havent looked at him very much, but i ve heard he is super solid as well.

Srsly, Kenshi now might be top 10 material for sure, maybe even top 5 at the right hands.
 

RYX

I will downplay anything for 5 dollars
you can still combo off of it midscreen (in balanced at least), so what's the issue lol